New Royal Descent for Thomas Bressey and Elizabeth (Butler) Claiborne
Douglas Richardson
The following is a new royal descent from King Henry II through the
Longford and Neville families which goes down to two colonial
immigrants, namely Thomas Bressey, of New England, and Elizabeth
Butler (or Boteler), wife of William Claiborne, of Virginia. The
documentation for this line will appear in my forthcoming book,
Plantagenet Ancestry. Please contact me privately at my e-mail
address below for information regarding ordering the book.
There are doubtless other colonial immigrants who descend from the
Longford and Neville families covered below. If anyone has
information on such descents, I'd appreciate if they would post a
brief summary here on the newsgroup.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
I. THOMAS BRESSEY LINE
l. HENRY II, King of England, by a mistress, IDA _____.
2. WILLIAM LONGESPÉE, Knt., Earl of Salisbury, married ELA OF
SALISBURY.
3. IDA LONGESPÉE, married WALTER FITZ ROBERT, Knt., Baron of Little
Dunmow, Essex.
4. ELA FITZ WALTER, married WILLIAM DE ODDINGSELES, Knt., of Solihull,
co. Warwick.
5. IDA DE ODDINGSELES, married ROGER DE HERDEBURGH, Knt., of
Prilleston, Norfolk.
6. ELA DE HERDEBURGH, married WILLIAM LE BOTELER (or LE BOTILLER),
Knt., of Wem, co. Salop.
7. ALICE LE BOTELER, married NICHOLAS DE LONGFORD, Knt., of Longford,
co. Derby.
8. NICHOLAS DE LONGFORD, Knt., of Longford, co. Derby, married ALICE
DEINCOURT.
9. NICHOLAS LONGFORD, Knt., of Longford, co. Derby, married MARGERY
(or MARGARET) SULNEY.
10. ALICE LONGFORD, married ROBERT NEVILLE, Esq., of Rolleston, co.
Nottingham.
11. THOMAS NEVILLE, Esq., of Rolleston, co. Nottingham, married
ELIZABETH BABINGTON.
12. WILLIAM NEVILLE, Esq., of Rolleston, co. Nottingham, and Holt, co.
Leicester, married KATHERINE PALMER.
13. THOMAS NEVILLE, Esq., of Holt, co. Leicester, married ISABEL
GRIFFIN.
14. THOMAS NEVILLE, of Cotterstock and Cottingham, co. Northampton,
married ALICE WAUTON.
Children of Thomas Neville, by Alice Wauton:
i. JANE NEVILLE [see next].
ii.ANNE NEVILLE, married JOHN SAINT JOHN, Knt., of Bletsoe and
Keysoe, co. Bedford [see BUTLER-CLAIBORNE line].
15. JANE NEVILLE, married WILLIAM CHAMBERLAIN (alias SPICER), of
Normanton-on-Soar, co. Nottingham.
16. AMPHYLLIS CHAMBERLAIN, married THOMAS SHEPPARD, Gent., of Maulden,
Hockliffe, and Littlecote (in Stewkley), co. Bedford.
17. CONSTANCE SHEPPARD, married EDMUND BRESSEY, Gent., of Maulden and
Wootton, co. Bedford.
18. THOMAS BRESSEY, baptized at Maulden, co. Bedford 8 Nov. 1601, 2nd
son, linen draper of London, immigrated to New England with his 2nd
wife in 1634 (in 1641 styled in London as "Thomas Brasey,
linen-draper, in New England"), died before 1648. He married (1st) at
London by license dated 30 Jan. 1626/7 HANNAH HART. He married (2nd)
at St. Lawrence Jewry, London 4 Aug. 1631 PHEBE BISBY, daughter of
William Bisby, of London. Reference: NEHGR 112 (1958): 42–44.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
II. BUTLER-CLAIBORNE LINE
14. THOMAS NEVILLE, of Cotterstock and Cottingham, co. Northampton,
married ALICE WAUTON (see above for earlier generations).
15. ANNE NEVILLE, married JOHN SAINT JOHN, Knt., of Bletsoe and
Keysoe, co. Bedford.
16. CRESSETT SAINT JOHN, married JOHN BUTLER (or BOTELER), Esq., of
Tofte and Lorings (both in Sharnbrook), and Souldrop, co. Bedford.
17. JOHN BUTLER(or BOTELER), Esq., of Little Birch, Essex, married
JANE ELLIOTT.
18. ELIZABETH BUTLER (or BOTELER), born before 1612, living 1 March
1668/9, married about 1635 WILLIAM CLAIBORNE, Esq. (living March
1676/7), of Crayford on Isle of Kent, Cheaspeake Bay, and New Kent,
Virginia, Surveyor of the Virginia Colony, member of the Council,
Treasurer and Secretary of the Colony of Virginia, justice of Accomac,
York & Northumberland Counties, Virginia.
References: N.M. Nugent, Cavaliers and Pioneers 1 (1979): 165. Gens.
of Virginia Fams. from VMHB 2 (1981): 1–70. Gens. of Virginia Fams.
from W&M Q. 1 (1982): 841–842. A.L. Jester, Adventurers of Purse and
Person (1987): 184–191.
iain wallace
"Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5cf47a19.03073...@posting.google.com...
> Dear Newsgroup ~
.........snip........
> 18. ELIZABETH BUTLER (or BOTELER), born before 1612, living 1 March
> 1668/9, married about 1635 WILLIAM CLAIBORNE, Esq. (living March
> 1676/7), of Crayford on Isle of Kent, Cheaspeake Bay, and New Kent,
> Virginia, Surveyor of the Virginia Colony, member of the Council,
> Treasurer and Secretary of the Colony of Virginia, justice of Accomac,
> York & Northumberland Counties, Virginia.
> References: N.M. Nugent, Cavaliers and Pioneers 1 (1979): 165. Gens.
> of Virginia Fams. from VMHB 2 (1981): 1-70. Gens. of Virginia Fams.
> from W&M Q. 1 (1982): 841-842. A.L. Jester, Adventurers of Purse and
> Person (1987): 184-191.
Some events relating to William Claiborne are recorded in the parish
registers of Crayford, Kent (on the big island called Great Britain). I
transcribed these a couple of years ago, if anyone's interested I could dig
out the details.
Ian Wallace.
Robert O'Connor
"Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5cf47a19.03073...@posting.google.com...
>
> The following is a new royal descent from King Henry II through the
> Longford and Neville families which goes down to two colonial
> immigrants, namely Thomas Bressey, of New England, and Elizabeth
> Butler (or Boteler), wife of William Claiborne, of Virginia. The
> documentation for this line will appear in my forthcoming book,
> Plantagenet Ancestry. Please contact me privately at my e-mail
> address below for information regarding ordering the book.
>
> There are doubtless other colonial immigrants who descend from the
> Longford and Neville families covered below. If anyone has
> information on such descents, I'd appreciate if they would post a
> brief summary here on the newsgroup.
>
Thanks for this Doug.
I don't know about any immigrants to America descending from the Longford &
Neville families, but my wife does.
Would you mind posting the full entries from your book to the group so that
I may see the references cited.
Many thanks
Robert
Doug McDonald
>
> "Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:5cf47a19.03073...@posting.google.com...
> > Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> .........snip........
>
> > 18. ELIZABETH BUTLER (or BOTELER), born before 1612, living 1 March
> > 1668/9, married about 1635 WILLIAM CLAIBORNE, Esq. (living March
> > 1676/7),
Interesting. This is possibly a new royal line for me.
By possibly I mean that the link from my ancestor Nicholas
Cox and William Claiborne, while seen very often, looks
very shaky to me. Most of these lines seem to make Nicholas
a descendent of William Cox, an Ancient Planter who arrived
here in 1610, and this looks to be fantasy. I should add
that I do have a different and solid line to this William Cox.
Nicholas Cox is usually listed as marrying a Mary Claiborne,
who is purported to be a William Claiborne (and Elizabeth
Butler) descendent, again, I see little evidence for this.
Doug McDonald
Douglas Richardson
Dear Robert ~
Thank you for your good post.
Perhaps you can share with us how your wife descends from the Longford
family of Derbyshire and the Neville family of Rolleston, co.
Nottingham and Holt, co. Leicester.
Also, can you please be a bit more specific about what you mean by
"full entries" from my book? Do you mean an exact transcription?
References for specific generations? Dates? What?
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
e-mail: royala...@msn.com
Robert O'Connor
> Perhaps you can share with us how your wife descends from the Longford
> family of Derbyshire and the Neville family of Rolleston, co.
> Nottingham and Holt, co. Leicester.
Certainly , at least down until c 1600:
ROBERT NEVILLE, of Rolleston, Co. Notts., M 1402 Alice, d. of Sir Nicholas
Longford, Kt., of Longford, Co. Derby & Withington, Co. Lanc. & his wife
Margaret, d. of Sir Alfred Sulney, Kt., M.P., of Newton Solney, Co. Derby.
(See LONGFORD). Died before 1420. v.p. He had issue: (Ref: Payling, p
237)
/
THOMAS NEVILLE, of Rolleston, Co. Notts., M Elizabeth, d. of Sir William
Babington, Kt., Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas (See BABINGTON).
J.P. for Co. Notts., 1454. Died 1482. He had issue: (Ref: Payling, p 237)
/
ALICE NEVILLE, M 1st Richard Thurland, Esq., of Nottingham. M 2nd Sir
GERVASE CLIFTON, Kt., of Clifton, Co. Notts. (Died 12 May 1491). She had
issue: (Ref: Payling, pp 233 & 237. HSP Notts, p 17)
/
WILLIAM CLIFTON, of Barrington Court, Somerset & London., M Elizabeth, d.
of Thomas Blount, Esq., of Sodington, Co. Worc. (See BLOUNT). He purchased
Barrington Court from Henry, 2nd Baron Daubeney, 1552. Will dated 20 July
1562. Died between 20 July 1562 & 30 Nov. 1564. Will Proved at P.C.C., 30
Nov. 1564. He had issue: (Refs: Burke's P 1904, p 343. HSP Notts, p
18Will PCC)
/
THEOPHILIA CLIFTON, Born c. 1548. Mentioned in her father's will as
"Theophilia Clifton my daughter" under which she received a bequest of £100,
20 July 1562. M c. 1565 1st THOMAS STRODE, Esq., of Stoke sub Hamdon,
Somerset (Born c. 1530 & Bur. 25 April 1595 at Stoke sub Hamdon). M 2nd 6
Aug. 1596 at Stoke sub Hamdon, Anthony Parsons, "Gentleman", Steward of the
Manor of Martock, Somerset (Will Proved at P.C.C., 1613). She had issue by
her 1st husband: (Refs: HSP Notts, p 18. Father's will. HoD II, pp 130-1)
/
ELIZABETH STRODE, Bapt. 14 June 1575 at Stoke sub Hamdon. M c. 1591 RICHARD
PHELIPS, Esq., of Corfe Mullen, Co. Dorset. (Born c. 1570 & Died before
1612). Recorded as "Elizabeth late wife of Richard Phelips of Corfe Mullen
deceased" she received a grant of an annuity from her husband's uncle Sir
Edward Phelips out of the Manor of Montacute, 1612. An Exemplification of a
decree in Chancery was issued involving her husband's 1st cousin Sir Robert
Phelips against her, she recorded as "Elizabeth Phelips widow of Richard
Phelips of Corfe Mullen, nephew of Sir Edward Phelips", & her sons Thomas,
Edward & Richard, relating to claims on an annuity granted by Sir Edward
Phelips, 1630-3. Died after 1630-3. She had issue: (Refs: HoD II, pp
130-1. HSP Dorset 1623, p 76. Somerset Deeds DD/PH/29,DD/PH/30, DD/PH/124
& DD/PH/231)
/
ANNE PHELIPS, Born c. 1600. M before 1623 Thomas Gillingham, "Gentleman", of
Oakley, in the Parish of Great Canford, Co. Dorset (Born c. 1595 & Died
1650. Will Proved at P.C.C., 5 July 1650). Mentioned in her husband's will
as "my loving wife Anne", 21 Feb. 1649/50. Probate of her husband's will
was granted to her, 5 July 1650. She had issue: (Refs: HSP Dorset 1623, p
76. Husband's will)
/
JOHN GILLINGHAM, of Oakley, in the Parish of Great Canford, Co. Dorset.,
Born c. 1630. Mentioned in his father's will as "my son John" under which
he received a bequest of £10, 21 Feb. 1649/50. Recorded as "my cousin John
Gillingham" he received a bequest of 20 shillings under the will of his
maternal uncle Thomas Phelips, 10 Oct. 1662. Mentioned in the will of his
brother Henry as "my brother John Gillingham", 16 Nov. 1662. Mentioned in
the will of his nephew Thomas Gillingham, of Honeybrook as "my uncle John
Gillingham" under which he received a bequest of "10 shillings to buy a
ring", 10 Aug. 1680. M 1st Sophrenia (Bur. 19 Aug. 1663 at Great Canford -
at her burial she was recorded as "wife of Mr John Gillingham of Oakley". M
2nd Joan (Bur. 30 March 1670 at Great Canford - at her burial she was
recorded as "wife of Mr John Gillingham". M 3rd before 20 Feb. 1682 Anne
(She M 1st - Thurborne. Mentioned in her husband's will as "my loving wife
Anne", 20 Feb. 1682/3. Will dated 20 Jan. 1697/8. Will Proved at the
Peculiar Court of Great Canford, 14 May 1701) (See THURBORNE). Will dated
20 Feb. 1682/3 - in which he was recorded as "of Oakley in the Parish of
Great Canford in the County of Dorset Yeoman" & under which his executors
were exhorted not to "demolish my Mansion House barnes & other out houses in
Oakley". Died 1688. Will Proved at P.C.C., 4 July 1688. He had issue by
his 1st wife: (Refs: PR. Father's will. Uncle's will. Brother's will.
Nephew's will. Will PCC)
>
> Also, can you please be a bit more specific about what you mean by
> "full entries" from my book? Do you mean an exact transcription?
> References for specific generations? Dates? What?
What I mean is simply would you mind cutting and pasting the whole entries
relative to each generation from your forthcoming book into a post. You
have done that before and I imagine that it is the easiest and simplest way
for you to verify the descent that you have posted.
Many thanks
Robert
Robert O'Connor
I have posted my line from the Neville's of Rolleston as requested. Are you
going to reciprocate with the sources for the line that you have posted, or
will I have to ignore it and remove it from my database for want of
verification?
Regards
Robert
Robert O'Connor
>
> ROBERT NEVILLE, of Rolleston, Co. Notts., M 1402 Alice, d. of Sir
Nicholas
> Longford, Kt., of Longford, Co. Derby & Withington, Co. Lanc. & his wife
> Margaret, d. of Sir Alfred Sulney, Kt., M.P., of Newton Solney, Co. Derby.
> (See LONGFORD). Died before 1420. v.p. He had issue: (Ref: Payling, p
> 237)
>
The post that I made giving the wife of Robert Neville of Rolleston as Alice
Longford was based on Doug's post in response to his request that I show my
link, not on the reference "Payling, p 237" as I posted.
I have requested that Doug post his source for the Neville/ Longford
connection, and indeed for the whole line that he posted. However, he
appears to have ignored my request.
On this basis the Neville/ Lonford link has not been substantiated and I
must regrettably therefore disavow my post showing that link.
Robert O'Connor
Sutliff
I am sorry to see that Douglas Richardson seems unwilling to answer you.
That other posts have been made by him, makes the avoidance of your posts
obvious. You are one of the most generous people here and I am sorry to see
your sincere posts ignored.
I looked up your request in Payling. At no point does Payling identify
Robert Neville's wife as a Longford on page 237 or anywhere else as anything
but "Alice." Sorry. I think you are wise to disavow the link without further
documentation or response from Richardson.
Hap
"Robert O'Connor" <roco...@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bghf2b$ka2$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
D. Spencer Hines
Richardson was fishing....
Sounds as if he's back on his "buy my book and find out" jag again....
Deus Vult.
"I don't care a twopenny damn what becomes of the ashes of Napoleon
Buonaparte." ---- Attributed to Arthur Wellesley, [1769-1852] Duke of
Wellington
Prosecutio stultitiae est gravis vexatio, executio stultitiae coronat opus.
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
"Sutliff" <sut...@redshift.com> wrote in message
news:vioo41e...@corp.supernews.com...
| > On this basis the Neville/Longford link has not been substantiated and I
Reedpcgen
>
>Richardson was fishing....
>
>Sounds as if he's back on his "buy my book and find out" jag again....
>
Sadly, he's finally discovered that Foedera is at the Special Collections of
the University of Utah.
This is a large collection of royal documents, in multiple volumes. Given that
he has made a practice of posting longs strings of "royal relatives" (without
necessarily knowing particulars), and these are royal charters, I dread now the
long string of "discoveries" he will make that have actually been in print for
two centuries. If it's in a book and he reads it, it's a "discovery."
Of course, his spending all this time in Foedera will not aid in getting his
book to press any sooner.
Ah, well. We shall endure.
Paul
Reedpcgen
I meant to type, "royal contracts," etc.
Paul
D. Spencer Hines
Some fall for it.
Amusing....
Deus Vult.
"I don't care a twopenny damn what becomes of the ashes of Napoleon
Buonaparte." ---- Attributed to Arthur Wellesley, [1769-1852] Duke of
Wellington
Prosecutio stultitiae est gravis vexatio, executio stultitiae coronat opus.
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
| >Sound Thinking....
| >
| >Richardson was fishing....
| >
| >Sounds as if he's back on his "buy my book and find out" jag again....
| If it's in a book and he reads it, it's a "discovery."
AGeorgeSand
us, who cant all get to Utah...
While it's probably true that posting to the list slows down working on
one's book, Richardson's posts have been among the most pithy and
interesting on the list, thru sometimes long periods of dearth -- along with
a few others of course...
it sounds like it's Reed and Finton who're fishing with their come-ons about
Amy Gaveston rather than giving the verdict. Wish I more curious, but Ho
Hum.
Chris Phillips
AGeorgeSand wrote:
> the books may have been there 200 years , but they're news to the rest of
> us, who cant all get to Utah...
Courtesy of the Bibliotheque nationale de France, ten of the volumes of the
1727-9 edition, though not the complete work, are available as PDF files at
the http://gallica.bnf.fr/ site. (Numbers for "Recherche libre" field:
N093485-N093493, N093495.)
The French-language documents from volume 1 have also recent been made
available by "The Anglo-Norman On-line Hub", at
http://www.anglo-norman.net/texts/foedera-contents.html
Chris Phillips
Reedpcgen
>us, who cant all get to Utah...
This source is actually in most Special Collections of major libraries [Thomas
Rymer, Foedera, Record Commission], and is just rarely used because people
don't know it's value (it's heavily abstracted in CPR, etc.). The first part
is even online, so there you go (perhaps that was what Doug was using). See:
http://and4.anglo-norman.net:8082/texts/foedera-contents.html
>
>it sounds like it's Reed and Finton who're fishing with their come-ons about
>Amy Gaveston rather than giving the verdict. Wish I more curious, but Ho
>Hum.
It must be a rough night. Generally you're nice to me. Ken had nothing to do
with the writing of the article, aside from some editing points to conform to
his style. As to summarizing an article dozens of pages beyond 100, a precis I
cannot deliver.
The article was written by Brad Verity and me, and is excrutiatingly detailed
in the discussion of original sources (including foedera). You may have missed
it, but Ken offered to send a copy of this article in PDF format to anyone who
requests it, so if you email him, you'll know the details (there's even some
very good stuff about marriage law, bastardy, proofs of age, and more!).
My best to you, even when you're not feeling yours,
Paul
AGeorgeSand
now all I need is the time to read them!
PS : I protest to making people cut off the original messages; you cant tell
what they're talking about half the time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Phillips" <c...@medievalgenealogy.org.uk>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: New Royal Descent for Thomas Bressey and Elizabeth (Butler)
Claiborne
>
Douglas Richardson
Your request required a DETAILED answer to your post, which request
took SEVERAL HOURS of my time to prepare an appropriate reply for you.
I've since sent you the requested information by private e-mail.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
"Robert O'Connor" <roco...@es.co.nz> wrote in message news:<bghf2b$ka2$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz>...
Douglas Richardson
> the books may have been there 200 years , but they're news to the rest of
> us, who cant all get to Utah...
> While it's probably true that posting to the list slows down working on
> one's book, Richardson's posts have been among the most pithy and
> interesting on the list, thru sometimes long periods of dearth -- along with
> a few others of course...
>
Thanks for the complement, George. Much appreciated.
Robert O'Connor
detailed study of the Neville/ Langford line. I am delighted to see that
you have quoted copious sources both primary and secondary. With this
information at hand I may now verify the line that you posted several days
ago.
Regards
Robert
AGeorgeSand
I'm sure you know that I dont worship at your altar and
am glad to proofread you on occasion, as I sometimes
wish someone competent would do for me in good faith, as well...
I'd sudder to think there was nobody out there who knew more
than me about medieval genealogy... although I can
parrot a reputedly valid source up there with the best of them...
but maybe if I proofread myself
long enough, out of sheer desperation because nobody will do it for me --
I might end up really knowing it all.. unfortunately, one rarely lives that
long.
perhaps I'll have no choice but to become immortal
("devenir Immortel, et puis ... mourir..." ? but I suppose he was just
talking about
the Academy Française?)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: New Royal Descent for Thomas Bressey and Elizabeth (Butler)
Claiborne
Douglas Richardson
Dear Robert ~
You're quite welcome. I'm glad to know the information I sent you was
helpful. If you encounter any additional material on the Longford and
Neville families, please let me know.
AGeorgeSand
something to do with ancient history... but can we keep that stuff to
private posts? it's still cloying and sounds like ads and hype... except of
course, when it's for me... besides, guys like doug get so happy with
themselves, they stop doing anything worthwhile, and soon wont do anything
unless they can charge money for it... you're digging your own graves, I
tell you ... doug is just another schmuck like the rest of us, and makes
mistakes
like the best of us... but he does post lines more often, rather than
alluding to
them vaguely like Paul is doing ...
I only mentioned dougs pithiness to complain about the lack of pith
from some others, (including myself, when not inspired)... so get out there
and inspire us!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert O'Connor" <roco...@es.co.nz>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: New Royal Descent for Thomas Bressey and Elizabeth (Butler)
Claiborne
Clagett, Brice
In a post of July 30 Douglas Richardson asked that any one
with information on other colonial settlers with Longford
descents post a brief summary. Here are two (to the same
settler):
1. Sir Nicholas de Longford, c. 1351-1401; m. Margery Sulney.
2. Joan Longford, m. Sir Nicholas Montgomery.
3. Sir Nicholas Montgomery, m. Isabel ____.
4. Sir Nicholas Montgomery, m. Joan Delves.
5. Elizabeth Montgomery, m. Sir Henry Sacheverell.
6. William Sacheverell, m. Mary Lowe.
7. Dorothy Sacheverell, m. Jasper Lowe.
8. Patrick Lowe, m. Jane Harpur.
9. Vincent Lowe, m. Ann Cavendish.
10. Jane Lowe, settler in Md.; m. (2) Henry Sewall; (2)
Charles Calvert, 3d Lord Baltimore.
1. Sir Nicholas de Longford, c. 1351-1401; m. Margery Sulney.
2. Helen Longford, m. Sir Henry Pierrepont.
3. Henry Pierrepont, m. Thomasin Melton.
4. Francis Pierrepont, m. Margaret Burden.
5. Sir William Pierrepont, m. Joan Empson.
6. Sir George Pierrepont, m. Winifred Thwaites.
7. Isabel Pierrepont, m. Sir John Harpur.
8. Jane Harpur, m. Patrick Lowe. (see 8 above.)
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clagett, Brice" <bcla...@cov.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 5:32 AM
Subject: New Royal Descent for Thomas Bressey and Elizabeth (Butler)
Claiborne
>
Dear Brice,
You cleaned up for me another discrepancy in Gerald Paget's book on the
ancestors of Prince Charles. In your second line, nr. 2 Helen Longford, in
Paget's book is recorded under nr. Q116333 as Ellen Langford, daughter of
Sir Nicholas Langford. This adds more ancestors to Prince Charles as well as
create another link between Prince Charles and Jane Lowe.
Many thanks for this.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Louise Staley
>
> In a post of July 30 Douglas Richardson asked that any one
> with information on other colonial settlers with Longford
> descents post a brief summary. Here are two (to the same
> settler):
<snip>
> 1. Sir Nicholas de Longford, c. 1351-1401; m. Margery Sulney.
> 2. Helen Longford, m. Sir Henry Pierrepont.
> 3. Henry Pierrepont, m. Thomasin Melton.
> 4. Francis Pierrepont, m. Margaret Burden.
> 5. Sir William Pierrepont, m. Joan Empson.
> 6. Sir George Pierrepont, m. Winifred Thwaites.
> 7. Isabel Pierrepont, m. Sir John Harpur.
> 8. Jane Harpur, m. Patrick Lowe. (see 8 above.)
Dear Brice,
Sir George Pierrpont and Winifred Thwaites are supposedly also the parents
of Anne Pierrepont who married Sir Francis Beaumont of Gracedieu, Justice
of the Common Pleas. Anne Pierrepont also married Thomas Thorold.
I wondered if you could post the source for the Pierrepont line and also if
Anne appears as another daughter.
Many thanks
Louise
Douglas Richardson
You can find information on Sir George Pierrepont and his daughter,
Anne (wife of Thomas Thorold and Sir Francis Beaumont), in the
following sources:
J. Throsby, Thoroton's Hist. of Nottinghamshire 1 (1790): 174–181. E.
Brydges, Collins' Peerage of England 5 (1812): 626–630. R. Mundy,
Vis. of County of Nottingham 1569, 1614 (H.S.P. 4) (1871): 43–56
(Pierrepont pedigree: "Sr George Perpoynte Knight = Winifrede da. &
heire of Sr William Thwaytes in Com. Norff."). P.W. Hasler, House of
Commons 1558–1603 3 (Hist. of Parl.) (1981): 221 ("The Elizabethan
Pierreponts were recusants"). S.T. Bindoff, House of Commons
1509–1558 3 (1982): 108–109.
Sir George Pierrepont's extended royal ancestry including the newly
discovered Longford descent from King Henry II can be found in my
forthcoming book, Plantagenet Ancestry.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
"Louise Staley" <car...@bigpond.com.au> wrote in message news:<R51Ya.16912$bo1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
stars.s...@gmail.com
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> The following is a new royal descent from King Henry II through the
> Longford and Neville families which goes down to two colonial
> immigrants, namely Thomas Bressey, of New England, and Elizabeth
> Butler (or Boteler), wife of William Claiborne, of Virginia. The
> address below for information regarding ordering the book.
>
> There are doubtless other colonial immigrants who descend from the
> Longford and Neville families covered below. If anyone has
> information on such descents, I'd appreciate if they would post a
> brief summary here on the newsgroup.
>
>
> l. HENRY II, King of England, by a mistress, IDA _____.
>
> 2. WILLIAM LONGESPÉE, Knt., Earl of Salisbury, married ELA OF
> SALISBURY.
>
> 3. IDA LONGESPÉE, married WALTER FITZ ROBERT, Knt., Baron of Little
> Dunmow, Essex.
>
> 4. ELA FITZ WALTER, married WILLIAM DE ODDINGSELES, Knt., of Solihull,
> co. Warwick.
>
> 5. IDA DE ODDINGSELES, married ROGER DE HERDEBURGH, Knt., of
> Prilleston, Norfolk.
>
> 6. ELA DE HERDEBURGH, married WILLIAM LE BOTELER (or LE BOTILLER),
> Knt., of Wem, co. Salop.
>
> 7. ALICE LE BOTELER, married NICHOLAS DE LONGFORD, Knt., of Longford,
> co. Derby.
>
> 8. NICHOLAS DE LONGFORD, Knt., of Longford, co. Derby, married ALICE
> DEINCOURT.
>
> 9. NICHOLAS LONGFORD, Knt., of Longford, co. Derby, married MARGERY
> (or MARGARET) SULNEY.
>
> 10. ALICE LONGFORD, married ROBERT NEVILLE, Esq., of Rolleston, co.
> Nottingham.
>
> 11. THOMAS NEVILLE, Esq., of Rolleston, co. Nottingham, married
> ELIZABETH BABINGTON.
>
> 12. WILLIAM NEVILLE, Esq., of Rolleston, co. Nottingham, and Holt, co.
> Leicester, married KATHERINE PALMER.
>
> 13. THOMAS NEVILLE, Esq., of Holt, co. Leicester, married ISABEL
> GRIFFIN.
>
> 14. THOMAS NEVILLE, of Cotterstock and Cottingham, co. Northampton,
> married ALICE WAUTON.
>
> Children of Thomas Neville, by Alice Wauton:
> i. JANE NEVILLE [see next].
> ii.ANNE NEVILLE, married JOHN SAINT JOHN, Knt., of Bletsoe and
> Keysoe, co. Bedford [see BUTLER-CLAIBORNE line].
>
> 15. JANE NEVILLE, married WILLIAM CHAMBERLAIN (alias SPICER), of
> Normanton-on-Soar, co. Nottingham.
>
> 16. AMPHYLLIS CHAMBERLAIN, married THOMAS SHEPPARD, Gent., of Maulden,
> Hockliffe, and Littlecote (in Stewkley), co. Bedford.
>
> 17. CONSTANCE SHEPPARD, married EDMUND BRESSEY, Gent., of Maulden and
> Wootton, co. Bedford.
>
> 18. THOMAS BRESSEY, baptized at Maulden, co. Bedford 8 Nov. 1601, 2nd
> son, linen draper of London, immigrated to New England with his 2nd
> wife in 1634 (in 1641 styled in London as "Thomas Brasey,
> linen-draper, in New England"), died before 1648. He married (1st) at
> London by license dated 30 Jan. 1626/7 HANNAH HART. He married (2nd)
> at St. Lawrence Jewry, London 4 Aug. 1631 PHEBE BISBY, daughter of
> William Bisby, of London. Reference: NEHGR 112 (1958): 42–44.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> II. BUTLER-CLAIBORNE LINE
>
> 14. THOMAS NEVILLE, of Cotterstock and Cottingham, co. Northampton,
> married ALICE WAUTON (see above for earlier generations).
>
> 15. ANNE NEVILLE, married JOHN SAINT JOHN, Knt., of Bletsoe and
> Keysoe, co. Bedford.
>
> 16. CRESSETT SAINT JOHN, married JOHN BUTLER (or BOTELER), Esq., of
> Tofte and Lorings (both in Sharnbrook), and Souldrop, co. Bedford.
>
> 17. JOHN BUTLER(or BOTELER), Esq., of Little Birch, Essex, married
> JANE ELLIOTT.
> 18. ELIZABETH BUTLER (or BOTELER), born before 1612, living 1 March
> 1668/9, married about 1635 WILLIAM CLAIBORNE, Esq. (living March
> Virginia, Surveyor of the Virginia Colony, member of the Council,
> Treasurer and Secretary of the Colony of Virginia, justice of Accomac,
> York & Northumberland Counties, Virginia.
> References: N.M. Nugent, Cavaliers and Pioneers 1 (1979): 165. Gens.
> of Virginia Fams. from VMHB 2 (1981): 1–70. Gens. of Virginia Fams.
> from W&M Q. 1 (1982): 841–842. A.L. Jester, Adventurers of Purse and
> Person (1987): 184–191.
Just wondering, I have looked all through this line on Geni.com and tried to connect Elizabeth Butler Claiborne to King Henry II and what they have is completely different. Is what is in here more accurate?