Re: Morville - Stuteville question
Patricia Junkin
A question. When Helewysa de Levington de Balliol died her IPM reflects that
"Helewysa held no land of the King in capite in this county, but she held
the moiety of the manor of Hoffe of the heirs of Robert de Veteripont."
Hoffe Manor, I believe is in Cumbria, and a Morvill inheritance. Robert de
Veteripont is heir to Maud de Morvill, how then does Helewysa hold a moiety
if not perhaps the elder Hugh and Simon were brothers?
Thank you.
Pat
----------
>From: The...@aol.com
>To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: Morville - Stuteville question
>Date: Tue, Nov 23, 2004, 6:57 AM
>
> Tuesday, 23 November, 2004
>
>
> Dear Leo,
>
> I was thinking of retitling this thread, "Hugh do you think you
> are?", but then thought better of it......;)
>
> The problem (as shown in "The Ancestry of Elizabeth of York")
> is that the Hughs de Morvill/Moreville have been recombined and
> confused over time. There are two separate families, who likely
> have a near relationship (not yet shown/proven) which can be
> distinguished:
>
> 1. The Cumberland family, traced from Simon de Morville and
> his wife Ada de Engaine, dau. of William de Engaine of
> Burgh by Sands, Cumbs. Their chief lands were the manors
> of Burgh by Sands, Penrith, Kirkoswald and Lazenby,
> Cumberland.
>
> 2. The Northants. family, traced from Hugh de Morville,
> which is the one with the Scots connections - their
> chief lands being the manors of Whissendine and Bosegate,
> Northants.
>
> I am forwarding detailed pedigrees of these two families - but,
> separately (do not want to annex the State of Confusion). Following
> is the first one, giving the descent from Hugh de Beauchamp through
> his granddaughter Beatrice de Beauchamp, who brought Whissendine,
> Northants. and other lands to her husband Hugh de Morville.
>
> ~ Note: this strays a bit from the Morville theme, but does
> provide relevant connections to/through the Lords of Galloway,
> the Viponts and the Lords Clifford, and others.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
> ___________________________________
>
>
> 1 Hugh de Beauchamp
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: bef 1114[1]
>
> of Bedford
> tenant holding 43 manors at Domesday Book, 1086[2]
>
> these included 'four knights' fees respectively at Bozeat, Northants,
> Whissendine and Whitwell in Rutland, Offord in Huntingdonshire, and
> Houghton Conquest beside Bedford'[3]
>
> Children: Simon (-<1138)
> Robert (-<1137)
>
>
> 1.1 Simon de Beauchamp
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: bef 1138[1]
>
> of Bedford
>
> Spouse: NN
>
> Children: NN, a dau. m. Hugh de Beaumont, Earl of Bedford [4]
>
>
> 1.2 Robert de Beauchamp[2]
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: bef 1137[1]
>
> died before brother Simon[1]
>
> Children: Miles (->1142)
> Payn (-<1157)
> Beatrice
>
>
> 1.2.1 Miles de Beauchamp
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: aft 1142, d.s.p.[1],[4]
>
> of Bedford
>
>
> 1.2.2 Payn de Beauchamp[2],[5]
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: bef 1157[1],[4]
>
> 'Pagan'
> of Bedford
> succeeded his brother Miles, ca. 1142 (DD, p. 312)[4]
> 2nd husband of Rohese (she m. 1stly Geoffrey de Mandeville)[2]
>
> Spouse: Rohese de Vere[6],[5]
> Death: aft Oct 1166[6]
> Father: Aubrey de Vere, Chamberlain of England (<1090-1141)
> Mother: Adeliza de Clare (-ca1163)
> Marr: aft 1143
>
> Children: Simon de Beauchamp, baron of Bedford(-1208)
>
>
> 1.2.3 Beatrice de Beauchamp
> ----------------------------------------
>
> her maritagium included
> "...four knights' fees respectively at Bozeat, Northants,
> Whissendine and Whitwell in Rutland, Offord in Huntingdonshire, and
> Houghton Conquest beside Bedford--the 5 hides at Houghton having
> been originally acquired by Hugh de Beauchamp, Beatrice's
> grandfather, probably not long before 1086."[3]
>
> NOTE: a sister of Payn de Beauchamp, and not daughter (see P.
> Junkin[7])
> _______________________
>
> re: her husband:
>
> chancellor to King David I, 1144 (and possibly before)
>
> 'Hugh de Morville', witness [together with Alan de Perci, William
> de Somerville, Berengar Engaine, Randolph de Sules, William de
> Morville, Hervi son of Warin and Edmund the chamberlain] to charter
> from King David I to Robert de Brus of the lordship of Annandale,
> dated Scone, ca. 1124 [Donaldson, p. 19[8]]
>
> ' Hugo de Morevill ', one of the witnesses to David I.’s Charter of
> Confirmation to Dunfermline Abbey, dated ca. 1127-1129 [Henderson,
> Annals of Dunfermline: cites Regist. de Dunf. p. 4; Sibbald’s Hist.
> Fife, p. 227; Chalmer’s Hist. Dunf. p. 133.[9]]
>
> 'Hugh de Moreville'', one of the witnesses to David I.’s [Second]
> Charter of Confirmation to Dunfermline Abbey, dated ca. 1129-1130
> [Henderson, Annals of Dunfermline: cites Registrum de Dunfermelyn,
> pp. 5-7; Fernie’s Hist. Dunf. pp. 187-193; Mercer’s Hist. Dunf.
> pp. 316-320.[9]]
>
> 1144.—ROYAL GIFT OF GOLD TO THE ABBEY.—About this period David I.
> bequeaths, by charter-right, to the Abbey the tenth of all his gold
> obtained in Fife and Fothriff. (Title of Charter, or Writ,
> “De Decima Auri.”) Translation of the short Charter:--“David, King
> of Scots, to all honest men, Greeting,--Be it known to you that I
> have conceded, as a free gift, to the Church of the Holy Trinity,
> Dunfermline, the tenth part of the whole of my gold obtained in Fife
> and Fothrif.—T. Chancellor, HUGH DE MOREVILL; JOHN, Episcopus.—Given
> at Elbothel.” (Print. Regist. de Dunf. p.16, cart. 28.)[9]
>
> 'Hugh de Moreville', witness to grant by King Malcolm IV (Charter No.
> 37 of the Register of Dunfermline, entitled “De capitibus piscium
> quos vocant Crespeis”), dated 1155 [Henderson, Annals of
> Dunfermline[9]]
>
> Spouse: Hugh de Morville
> Death: 1162[7]
>
> Children: Richard (-1189)
> Hugh
> Maud
>
>
> 1.2.3.1 Richard de Morville
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: 1189[7]
> Occ: Constable of Scotland
>
> of Whissendine and Bosegate, Northants.
>
> ' Richard de Morville, Constable ', witness to charter of King
> William (of Scotland) dated ca. 1166-1171:
> ' Charter of William the Lion announcing the settlement of the
> dispute between the church of Durham and the church of Croyland
> concerning the will of Edrom and the church, in the presence of
> the King in his court, whereby the church of Edrom was ceded in
> perpetuity to the church of Durham.
> Witnesses: Richard, Bishop of St Andrew's, Ingebram, Bishop of
> Glasgow, Nicholas the Chancellor, John Abbot of Kelso, Earl Waldof,
> Richard de Morville, Constable, W. son of Alan, dapifer, David
> Olifard.
> At Perth N.D. [1166-71] . [Durham University Library Archives
> & Special Collections: Misc. Charter 612[10]. Printed: Raine ND
> App. XL; Printed: Lawrie; Calendared: Barrow &Scott, p.7. ]
>
> as 'Richard de Morevile, constable ', witness to a charter, 4 Oct
> 1172 :
> ' Witnessed by Eugene Bishop of Glascow, Mathew Bishop of Aberdeen,
> Earl Duncan, Odenell de Umfraville, Richard Cumin, Hugh Ridele,
> Gilbert son of Richard, William de Haya, Walter de Berkeley, Richard
> de Moreville, constable, Robert Avenell, Philip de Valones, Robert
> de Quency, Ranulf de Sules, William de Munford, Herbert de Samer,
> the King's clerk Richard of Lincoln, Simon son of Hutered, Adam his
> brother, at Maidens Castle 4 October in the 12th year of his reign '
> - PRO, Northumberland Record Office: Swinburne (Capheaton) estate
> records [ZSW/1 - ZSW/59] , Swinburne Manuscript Vol. 1 [ ZSW/1 ][11]
>
> held in 1212 to have been disseised of his lands in Northants. due to
> the war between Scotland and England, 1174[12]:
> ' In 1171/2, Richard de Morville offered 200 marks to have
> recognition of his claim to the lands of his wife Avicia, a daughter
> of William I of Lancaster, perhaps at the time of William I's death:
> Pipe Roll 18 Henry II, Pipe Roll Society, 18 (1894), p. 65, and for
> Avicia, see Furness Coucher Book Volume 2, part 11, 334-38. Richard
> served as hereditary constable to King William I of Scotland, and
> together with his brother Hugh undoubtedly participated in the
> rebellion of 1173-74 against Henry II. Hugh faced forfeiture of his
> Westmorland barony of Burgh-by-Sands and Appleby, and, in August
> 1175, Richard was delivered up as a hostage to Henry II under the
> terms of the treaty of Falaise. In the same year he was persuaded
> to pay the outstanding 120 marks of his fine first offered in 1172;
> Pipe Roll 21 Henry II, Pipe Roll Society, 22 (1897), 10; Chronica
> Rogeri de Houeden, II, 81, and in general, see G. W. S. Barrow, The
> Anglo-Norman Era in Scottish History (Oxford, 1980), 70-79.'[13]
> _________________
>
> re: his wife:
>
> 'In 1171/2, Richard de Morville offered 200 marks to have
> recognition of his claim to the lands of his wife Avicia, a
> daughter of William I of Lancaster..'[13]
>
> Spouse: Hawise de Lancaster
> Father: William de Lancaster of Kendal, Westmorland(-<1170)
> Mother: NN
>
> Children: Elena (-1217)
> William (-1196)
>
>
> 1.2.3.1.1 Elena de Morville
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: 11 Jun 1217[12]
>
> heiress of her brother William
> paid 500 merks (with her son Alan) for the assize determining the
> disseisin of Whissendine and Bosegate, Northants.[12]
>
> Spouse: Roland, Lord of Galloway
> Death: 19 Dec 1200, Northampton[12]
> Father: Uhtred of Galloway (-1174)
> Mother: Gunnhild of Allerdale
>
> Children: Alan (-1234)
> Thomas (-1237)
> NN
> Devorguilla (->1236)
>
>
> 1.2.3.1.2 William de Morville
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: 1196[12]
> Occ: Constable of Scotland
>
>
> 1.2.3.2 Hugh de Morville
> ----------------------------------------
>
> of Knaresburgh and North Westmoreland[7]
>
> evidently one of the murderers of Thomas Becket
>
>
> 1.2.3.3 Maud de Morville
> ----------------------------------------
>
> 'In a charter of Meaburn, Matilda de Morevill "granted the Hospital
> of the Blessed Peter of York the whole of our land named Garethorn"
> and follows "I will cause my brother and lord, Hugh de Morvill,
> within the first six months after his return to England to confirm
> to the said poor the aforesaid grant..."[7]
>
> Spouse: William de Veteriponte
>
> Children: Ivo (-1239)
> Robert (-1228)
>
>
> 1.2.3.3.1 Ivo de Vipont
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: 1239[7]
>
> made or confirmed a gift of his mother,
> ' "..for the safety of my soul and for the souls of Hugh de Morvill
> and William de Veteripont my father and Matilda de Veteriponte my
> mother and Robert my brother and Isabel de Lancaster my wife...the
> poor of the Hospital of St. Leonard Yoprk Garethorn with its
> belongings." Roger and Richard Beauchamp witness this charter.'[7]
>
> Spouse: Isabel de Lancaster
> Father: William de Lancaster (-<1170)
> Mother: Gundreda de Warenne (->1165)
>
>
> 1.2.3.3.2 Robert de Vipont
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: 1228[14]
>
> given custody of Appleby and Brough castles, Westmoreland in 1203
> (possibly also Brougham castle at the same time)
>
> Constable of Scarborough castle
>
> answered for 1 1/2 knights' fees of Old Wardon, co. Beds., 1224
> (Sanders, p. 133, citing Pipe Roll, E. 372/68, Bucks. and Beds.)[15]
>
> Spouse: Idonea de Builly
> Death: 1242[16]
> Father: John de Builly (-1213)
> Mother: Cecily de Bussy
>
> Children: John (-1243)
> Christian
>
>
> 1.2.3.3.2.1 John de Vipont
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: 1243[14]
>
> of Appleby and Sandford, co. Westmoreland
>
> Spouse: Sibyl de Ferrers
> Birth: 25 Jul 1216
> Father: William de Ferrers, Earl of Derby (-1247)
> Mother: Agnes of Chester (-1247)
>
> Children: Robert (<1237-1264)
>
>
> 1.2.3.3.2.1.1 Robert de Vipont
> ----------------------------------------
> Birth: bef 1237[17]
> Death: 7 Jun 1264[17]
> Occ: Sherif of Westmoreland[17]
>
> or Vieuxpont
> of Appleby, co. Westmoreland[17]
>
> Spouse: Isabel FitzJohn[6]
> Father: Sir John FitzGeoffrey (-1258)
> Mother: Isabel le Bigod
>
> Children: Isabel (<1249-1292)
> Idoine (-1333)
>
>
> 1.2.3.3.2.1.1.1 Isabel de Vipont
> ----------------------------------------
> Birth: bef 1249[17]
> Death: 14 May 1292[6]
> Burial: Shap Abbey, Westmoreland
>
> coheiress of Appleby and Brougham, co. Westmoreland[15]
> (ultimately sole heiress, in her issue, on her sister's death)[17]
>
> 'Malteby [co. Yorks.]. Isabella et Idonea de Veteri Ponte pro
> villa de Malteb, quam tenent de castro de Tikehull, ijs. ijd. pro
> eodem fine, et vjd. q. de eodem auxilio.' [Kirkby's Inquest,
> p. 8[18]]
>
> also called Idonea [hence, Idoine] in error[14] (- mistaken for her
> sister)
>
> Spouse: Roger de Clifford
> Death: 6 Nov 1282, Moel-y-don, Wales (drowned)[17],[19]
> Father: Roger de Clifford (-1285)
> Mother: Matilda
>
> Children: Robert de Clifford, Lord Clifford(~1274-1314)
>
>
> 1.2.3.3.2.1.1.2 Idoine de Vipont
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: 1333, d.s.p.[15]
>
> coheiress of Appleby and Brougham, co. Westmoreland[15]
>
> 'Malteby [co. Yorks.]. Isabella et Idonea de Veteri Ponte pro
> villa de Malteb, quam tenent de castro de Tikehull, ijs. ijd. pro
> eodem fine, et vjd. q. de eodem auxilio.' [Kirkby's Inquest, p.
> 8[18]]
>
> she and husband John de Cromwell exchanged her purparty of
> Appleby to her nephew Robert de Clifford in exchange for the
> manor of Staveley, co. Derby before 8 Nov 1308 - to be held
> for life (Sanders, p. 84)[15]
>
> Hugh le Despenser the younger (exe. 1326)
> '..made an arrangement with John de Crumbewelle and Idoine his wife
> for their properties to eventually revert to Edward [Hugh's son].
> When Idoine died in 1334, all her properties did come into
> Edward's possession. '[20]
>
> Spouse: John de Cromwell
> Death: 1335, d.s.p.[15]
>
>
> 1.2.3.3.2.2 Christian de Vipont[21]
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Spouse: Thomas de Greystoke
> Birth: aft 1202
> Death: 1247[21],[15]
> Father: William fitz Ranulf (-1209)
> Mother: Hawise de Stuteville (-1228)
>
> Children: Joan
> Robert (-1254)
> William (ca1242-1289)
>
>
> 1. Richard Borthwick, "The Beauchamps, Followup #1," Jan 26, 1997,
> GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
> 2. Alan B. Wilson, "Re: Lanvallei + Beauchamp + Mowbray," 17 Sept
> 1998, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, rootsweb.com.
> 3. G. W. S. Barrow, "The Anglo-Norman Era in Scottish History,"
> Oxford, 1980, citation provided by Kathleen Much
> (kath...@casbs.stanford.edu), SGM, 3 January 1996.,
> http://www.hypertree.com/galloway/fergus.html
> cites G.W.S. Barrow, _The Anglo-Norman Era in Scottish History_
> (Oxford, 1980), p. 17;, also K.J. Stringer, ed. _Essays of the
> Nobility of Medieval Scotland_ (Edinburgh, 1985).
> 4. K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, "Domesday Descendants," The Boydell Press,
> Woodbridge, 2002, cited by Rosie Bevan, 'Re: de Stuteville' Jul
> 2, 2002, p. 723 (Osmund de Stuteville), full title: Domesday
> Descendants: A Prosopography of Persons, Occurring in English
> Documents 1066-1166: Pipe Rolls to Cartae Baronum.
> 5. Stewart Baldwin, "Oldest Female Line?," Nov 20, 1996,
> GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com.
> 6. Frederick L. Weis, Th. D., "The Magna Carta Sureties, 1215,"
> Baltimore: Gen Pub Co., 5th ed., 1997 (W. L. Sheppard Jr & David
> Faris).
> 7. Patricia Junkin, "Re: Morville-Stuteville-Beauchamp," Jan 7,
> 2003, cites Reid (Transcriptions of the Dumfrieshire and Galloway
> Natural History and Antiquarian Society), re: Ivo de Vipont and
> Isabel de Lancaster; also Ragg in The Cumberland and Westmoreland
> Antiquarian Society., charters of Matilda de Morevill and her son
> Ivo de Vipont.
> 8. Gordon Donaldson, "Scottish Historical Documents," Edinburgh:
> Scottish Academic Press, 1970.
> 9. Ebenezer Henderson, LL.D, "The Annals of Dunfermline and
> Vicinity, from the Earliest Authentic Period to the Present Time,
> A.D. 1069 - 1878," Glasgow: John Tweed, 1879, text available
> courtesy of Electric Scotland,
> http://www.electricscotland.com/history/dunfermline/
> 10. "Durham Cathedral Muniments: Miscellaneous Charters," Durham
> University Library Archives & Special Collections,
>
http://flambard.dur.ac.uk:6336/dynaweb/handlist/ddc/dcdmisch/@Generic__BookT
extView/1
> 0523
> 11. Access to Archives, Public Record Office Archives,
> http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/
> 12. Sir James Balfour Paul, ed., "The Scots Peerage," 1904-1914
> 13. Nicholas Vincent, "William Marshal, King Henry II and the Honour
> of Chateauroux," (Archives: The Journal of the British Record
> Association 25:102 ]2000]), cites L'Histoire de Guillaume le
> Marechal, ed. by P. Meyer, 3 vols (Paris, 1891-1901), and other
> sources.
> 14. "GENUKI website," Westmorland: A History of the Family of
> Sandford of Sandford, William A. C. Sandford,
> www.love-lane.freeserve.co.uk/genuki/WES/Warcop/Sandford2.htm
> 15. I. J. Sanders, "English Baronies: A Study of Their Origin and
> Descent, 1086-1327," Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1960.
> 16. Richard Holmes, ed., "The Chartulary of St. John of Pontefract,"
> The Yorkshire Archaeological Society, Record Series, various
> dates:, Vol. I (Record series vol. XXV) - 1899, Vol. II(Record
> series vol. XXX) - 1902.
> 17. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 -
> The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain
> and the United Kingdom.
> 18. John de Kirkby, "The survey of the county of York taken by John
> de Kirkby, commonly called Kirkby's Inquest," also inquisitions
> of knights' fees, the Nomina villarum for Yorkshire, and an
> appendix of illustrative documents, Durham: Pub. for the Society
> by Andrews and Co., 1867.
> 19. Paul Martin Remfry, "The Final Campaign of Llywelyn ap Gruffydd,"
> http://www.castlestudies.co.uk/articles/TheFinalCampaignofPrinceLlywelyn.htm
> Copyright©1994-2001 Paul Martin Remfry.
> 20. Brad Verity, "Descendants of Eleanor de Clare, lady of Tewkesbury
> & Glamorgan," Jan 17, 2003, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com, cites CP
> and other sources.
> 21. Alan B. Wilson, "Lords of Greystoke," Apr 10, 1999,
> GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com sources cited incl. CP, Early
> Yorkshire Families (Clay) and English Baronies (Sanders).
>
>
> * John P. Ravilious
>
>
>
>