Aldana, wife of Thierry comte d'Autun
Christian Feuillet
Hi to all,
Looking at the genalogy tables at the end of:
Pierre Riche' - 1983 - Les Carolingiens: Une famille qui fit l'Europe.
I read (table 23 of 34) that Aldana (wife of Thierry comte d'Autun, mother
of Guillaume de Gellone and Gmother of Bernard de Septimanie) maybe, my
translation of "?", a daughter of Charles Martel.
Is there any truth in this? and if so, who would be her mother?
Christian Feuillet
Beltsville, Maryland, USA
BIH...@cris.com
ic
Again the best reference for this and other queries concerning the
Arnulfings is Hlawitschka's _Die Vorfahren die Karl der GroB_, in
the volume Karl der GroB, ed W.Braunfels 1968?
An old Aquitainian necrology mentions 3 sisters Landrada, Hiltrude, &
Aldana. Its suggested (by Chaume?) that Hiltrude here was the same as
Hiltrude (d.754), the sister of Pippin III who married Odilo II of
Bavaria (d.748). The Aldana is suggested to be Alda wife of Ct Theoderic,
the father of William of Gellone, who names his parents and other kin in
his foundation charter for Gellone in 804 (this is actually a forgery of
the twelfth century, but historians have generally accepted that the
information relating to his family is true). Thus Alda/Aldana is seen as
a daughter of Charles Martel, according to this argument. This union is
also seen as explaining why Bernard of Septimania, William's son, is
said by Thegan (c.836) is his life of Louis the Pious (ch.36) _de stirps
regalis_. A Theoderic who was a count in Ripuria (Rhineland) is called
_propinquus_ of Charlemagne in 782 in the Royal frankish Annals. He died
fighting the Avars in Pannonia 6.7.793. This was probably not William's
father but his (dead) brother who is also mentioned in the charter of 804.
Hlawitschka was clearly more sceptical than some about this link, so I
can't say whether it is valid or not. If she was Pippin III and
Hiltrude's sister, then her mother would be the same as theirs, Charles
Martel's first wife, who I think was called Rotrude (assumed to be dead
by c.724/5).
Incidentally William's father is never called Ct of Autun. There were
several counts of Autun of this name in the 9th century but not in the
eighth. It is a common mistake and comes from a dating error made by the
original editor, Perard in his _Recueil_ (I, p33). He thought that a
charter dated 4th year of King Pippin (detailing a judgement made at
Autun before Ct Theoderic), related to Pippin III, not Pippin I of
Aquitaine (who also held Autun and some other counties in Burgundy).
Hence he dated this charter to 755/6 and not 818. Perard's mistake was
followed by Calmette in his studies on William's family (cf Annales du
Midi, 1906, 1928 etc), and so has passed into secondary literature (but not
Hlawitschka's piece n.b). This was corrected long ago by the editor's of
the Cartulaire of St.Benoit sur Loire (Fleury), from where the charter
comes from (cf Prou & Vidier, _Recueil .. de St.Benoit_.., 1900, p29).
Questions about this and related areas seem to come up pretty regularly:
if ever a FAQ is put out for this group, this subject should certainly be
in it:).