Egbert of Wessex and the Saxon (Carolingian) Egbert
Don Stone
of Alfred the Great. I would be interested in any additional relevant
information that people may have and in evaluations of the hypothesis of
the identity of the two Egberts.
DISCUSSION:
According to the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, Ecgberht was forced into exile
among the Franks by King Offa of Mercia and Offa's son-in-law King
Beorhtric of Wessex, but he returned on Beorhtric's death in 800 [802]
and succeeded to the kingdom of Wessex. From his accession in 802 until
825, though, there is only one mention of Ecgberht in the Anglo-Saxon
Chronicle: in 813 [815] he harried in Cornwall from east to west. Kirby
(1991, p. 189) says, "So little is known of Ecgberht's activities
between 802 and 825 that it is easy to imagine him reigning
unobtrusively in Wessex across those years...." However, in an article
written about 100 years ago and not cited (so far as I know) by any
modern historian, Howorth (1900, p. 77) argues that during the first
quarter of the ninth century Ecgberht was largely abroad at
Charlemagne's court, and that when he was in England, he was there not
as the king of Wessex but as a dependant of the Mercian king. Howorth
believes that Ecgberht of Wessex is identical to the Saxon count Egbert,
for whom various activities in this period are documented; for example,
in 809 Egbert and other Saxon counts took possession of Esesfelth in the
Danish March for Charlemagne, and in 811 Egbert is one of twelve counts
who were nominated by Charlemagne to negotiate about the Danish frontier
with an equal number of Danes. This Egbert was the husband of St. Ida,
according to her biography. Banniza and Muller (1939, p. 27) state that
the Saxon duke Liudolf, grandfather of Henry the Fowler, was a son of
Egbert and Ida. They also propose that Mathilde (grandmother of Henry's
wife Mathilde), who was wife of the Saxon count Immed and abbess of
Herford (Hervorden) when she died ca. 915, might be a daughter of Egbert
and Ida, but, chronologically, she is more likely to be a granddaughter.
Howorth suggests that Wessex was subject to Mercia until the Battle of
Ellandune in 825, and offers as evidence some grants of land in
Berkshire to the abbey of Abingdon by the King of Mercia during this
period; no mention of Ecgberht or any other independent ruler of Wessex
occurs in these grants. However, Berkshire, later a focus of the Wessex
Kingdom, seems not to have been part of Wessex during Ecgberht's life;
Yorke (1995, p. 95) says that "Berkshire apparently remained a Mercian
province and was not united with the other shires of Wessex until the
reign of Aethelwulf (839-858)." It is the case, though, that no charter
or document granted or conferred by Ecgberht is known until 824 or so.
And if we consider Ecgberht's later spectacular military successes, they
do seem more likely to follow from Egbert's activities on the continent
than from an almost uneventful reign in Wessex from 802 to 825.
Howorth (1900, p. 77) mentions what he views as an enigmatic phrase in
three charters of Ecgberht from 826 and in some other documents. The
three charters are dated A.D. 826, in the 24th year of Ecgberht's reign
and the 14th year of his ducatus. Howorth speculates that Ecgberht may
have been a dux (ealdorman or perhaps reeve) under the Mercian king.
These charters are included in P. H. Sawyer's Anglo-Saxon Charters: An
Annotated Handlist and Bibliography, with the numbers 272, 275, and
276. They are classified by Edwards (1988, p. 315) as "charters
preserved only in later copies containing a mixture of authentic and
spurious material, with a preponderance of spurious elements." Note,
however, that Edwards postulates (pp. 160-1) that there was an authentic
charter of 826 in which Ecgberht granted land (probably at Alton Priors,
Wiltshire) to Burhheard, and she suggests that the dating clause in S272
and other extant charters probably was copied from this document. In
discussing S272, she says (p. 154) that the meaning of the phrase "14th
of his Ôducatus'" is obscure and "should probably be interpreted as an
elaboration added to a clause probably genuine in itself and originally
forming part of an authentic charter;" on the other hand, Kelley's
hypothesis below, makes this phrase less obscure and thus less
suspicious.
Prof. David H. Kelley believes that Ecgberht was created a dux by
Charlemagne, and that a Carolingian dux had a status at least as great
as an English kinglet. If Ecgberht considered himself a king in the
24th year of his reign, he would not be particularly likely to style
himself also as a dux (ealdorman) under, e.g., the Mercian king, but he
might proudly record his status as a dux (military leader) of the
Carolingian empire. Prof. Kelley is responsible for directing attention
to Howorth's article and the fact that its hypothesis implies that
Ecgberht's wife Raedburh might well be the same as St. Ida. There is a
brief mention of the Raedburh/St. Ida issue in Kelley (1977-78, p. 5).
SOURCES:
Banniza v. Bazan, Heinrich, and Richard Muller. 1939. Deutsche
Geschichte in Ahnentafeln. Berlin: Alfred Metzner Verlag.
Edwards, Heather. 1988. The Charters of the Early West Saxon Kingdom.
BAR British Series 198. Oxford: B.A.R.
Howorth, H. H. 1900. "Ecgberht, King of the West Saxons and the Kent
Men, and his Coins." The Numismatic Chronicle, and Journal of the
Numismatic Society, ser. 3, 20: 66-87.
Kelley, David H. 1977-78. "Who Descends from King David?" Toledot 1
(no. 3, Winter): 3-5.
Kirby, D. P. 1991. The Earliest English Kings. London: Unwin Hyman.
Taylor, Nathaniel L. 1997. "Saint William, King David, and Makhir: A
Controversial Medieval Descent." The American Genealogist 72: 205-223.
Yorke, Barbara. 1995. Wessex in the Early Middle Ages. London and New
York: Leicester University Press.
Chris Bennett
stimulating lines of inquiry:
1) The 14th year of a "ducatus" being 826, the 1st year is 813. Is there
any reason to suppose that the 813 date for Egbert's Cornish expedition
should NOT be corrected to 815? Alternatively, how does 813 fit into the
chronology of the known career of Egbert the Saxon? How does 815?
2) Is it really still true that there is no charter evidence for Egbert
before 824? THe Saxon charters for Egbert available online at
http://www.trin.cam.ac.uk/users/sdk13/chartwww/regestafiles/Wessex_Ecgberht.
html
gives one (S270a) dated 801, the next is 823 -- is S270a genuine? or
misdated?
3) When does Egbert the Saxon disappear from the continental record? Is he
replaced or is there a gap in the record?
4) How old was Ethelwulf and how old was Liudolf? Egbert's grandsons by
Ethelwulf all acceded to the throne pretty young, suggesting that they were
born starting in the late 830s (Alfred was born in 848). In turn this
suggests a birthdate in the mid-late teens or even as late as 820 for
Ethelwulf. But according to Searle Ethelwulf is recorded in a grant as king
of Kent in 828;also there is an Athelstan, king of Kent, who was a son of
either Egbert or Ethelwulf, as king of Kent in 839 -- these items suggest a
birthdate for Ethelwulf in the first decade of the 800s. In any case he was
certainly born before well before Essandun. He has a thoroughly English
name, Liudolf does not.
5) OTOH, Egbert himself is supposed to have been a rival to Beorhtric,
suggesting he was already adult in the 780s, therefore born c765/70 --
Ethelwulf then looks like a son born in Egbert's 40s.
6) So: supposing Saxon Egbert = Wessex Egbert, maybe he has two families, a
German one (born of St Ida) and a later [English] one (from Raedburga?) --
but ex hypothesi the English one is started long before Egbert's return to
WEssex.
7) In any case, if Raedburga is truly 'sororia' of a king of the Franks
(niece, according to David Kelley), the king involved could well be Louis
the Pious not CHarlemagne -- does that help locate her?
Chris
Don Stone wrote in message <3669556D...@plantagenet.com>...
>Here is a "research report" on Ecgberht or Egbert of Wessex, grandfather
>of Alfred the Great. I would be interested in any additional relevant
>information that people may have and in evaluations of the hypothesis of
>the identity of the two Egberts.
<snip>
Don Stone
>
> No additional information, but some reactions, offered in the spirit of
> stimulating lines of inquiry:
>
> 1) The 14th year of a "ducatus" being 826, the 1st year is 813. Is there
> any reason to suppose that the 813 date for Egbert's Cornish expedition
> should NOT be corrected to 815?
Not that I know of. (I see why you ask, though.)
> Alternatively, how does 813 fit into the
> chronology of the known career of Egbert the Saxon? How does 815?
Settipani's response says that the Saxon Egbert is last mentioned in
811.
> 2) Is it really still true that there is no charter evidence for Egbert
> before 824? THe Saxon charters for Egbert available online at
> http://www.trin.cam.ac.uk/users/sdk13/chartwww/regestafiles/Wessex_Ecgberht.html
> gives one (S270a) dated 801, the next is 823 -- is S270a genuine? or
> misdated?
Heather Edwards (1988, p. 56) says that the donor in this charter S270a
is Edbirtus, but that since there was no king Eadberht in Wessex, the
donor has been identified with queen Eadburh, wife of king Beorhtric
(786-802), or alternatively with king Ecgberht (802-839). She thinks
queen Eadburh is more likely, since the date of the charter is during
the reign of Beorhtric and since five of the seven witnesses of this
charter also attest a charter of Beorhtric in the same year and queen
Eadburh is also among the witnesses of the latter text (S268).
For the next charter, S271, the year should probably be 828 rather than
823 (Edwards, 1988, p. 284). Edwards says (p. 285), "It seems clear
that the compiler of this document made use of authentic ninth-century
records, and elements from these survive in the document he produced,
but this document itself appears to be a fabrication."
> 7) In any case, if Raedburga is truly 'sororia' of a king of the Franks
> (niece, according to David Kelley), the king involved could well be Louis
> the Pious not CHarlemagne -- does that help locate her?
Kelley says sororia could easily also be great-niece, and there are
various proposals that would make St. Ida a niece or great-niece of King
Pepin. (This is no help, of course, unless Raedburga = Ida.) Christian
Settipani said (on 5 Dec. 1998):
> Hadwig of Herford, granddaughter of Ecbert is attested as the cousin of
> Charles le Chauve, grandson of Charlemagne, at degree 3:4. That is to
> say : 1) that a grand-parent of Hadwig is the brother or sister of
> great-grandparent of Charles II, and 2) that there is no more close
> relationship between them.
The great-grandparent of Charles II le Chauve could be King Pepin, but
there appear to be too few generations between Hadwig of Herford and
Pepin's brother or sister.
-- Don Stone
SETTIPANI
>>Hadwig of Herford, granddaughter of Ecbert is attested as the cousin of
>>Charles le Chauve, grandson of Charlemagne, at degree 3:4. That is to
>>say : 1) that a grand-parent of Hadwig is the brother or sister of
>>great-grandparent of Charles II, and 2) that there is no more close
>>relationship between them.
DOn Stone Wrote :
>The great-grandparent of Charles II le Chauve could be King Pepin, but
>there appear to be too few generations between Hadwig of Herford and
>Pepin's brother or sister.
I have never said thar Pepin is the grandfather concerned. In fact, the
theorie is that of W. Metz. Hadwig of Herford (858-887) is born, ca 810.
Her mother was Ida, born ca 785/790, daughter of duke Ecbert of Saxe,
born ca 760. Ecbert could be the brother of N, noble Saxon, father of
Heilwig, born ca 775, wife of Welf, mother of Iudith, born ca 800, wife
of Louis le Pieux, mother of Charles II, born in 823. There is no
problem. Ecbert have another granddaughter, daughter of Cobbo, named
Heilwig, and Gisela, sister of Charles II was grandmother of an Hadwig,
so one can demonstrate that both the names Heilwig and Hadwig are in
Ecbert's family and in Welf's family.
CS