Wintershull family of Wintershall, Burgham, Bramley, Frobury, Frenches, Catteshull, etc.

[mk via]

Have been trying to sort out the Wintershulls who were ancestral to Robert
Wintershall of the Surrey visitation who married Jane Sandys. Numbers in
common mean likely the same person as the same number in different list.

Any help would be appreciated.

William Wintershull m. Beatrice Neville
at least three children, John, Edmund and Walter
[see pages for manor of Burgham (John), Frobury (Edmund) Bramley (Walter)]

descent of Burgham
1 John I born c 1252, succeeded 1287
4 Thomas I d 1340 = Alice d 1385 = Loxley
5 (William elder son who predeceased Alice)
6 Thomas II (younger brother of William who predeceased mother) d 1388
7 Thomas III d 1400
8 Thomas IV d 1420 [hist of parl has him marrying heiress Isabel Romyn prob
of Idsworth as Thomas was the heir of John Romyn d 1419 and his wife Isabel
who later married Nicholas Banester; possibly it was John's widow he was
briefly married to?]
9 Agnes Basset
10 Thomas Wintershull d 1477
11 Robert d 1509
12 Thomas b c 1497

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/surrey/vol3/pp390-395

descent of Frobury
1 John I
2 Walter
3 Edmund
Walter & his heirs
6 Thomas II d 1387, son of Thomas I?
7 Thomas III d 1400, son of Thomas II [b c. 1364, wife Joan = John
Waterton, history of parliament]
8 Thomas IV d 1420, son of Thomas III [ch 1392, hop]
9 Agnes Basset (sister of last Thomas) d c 1482
13 Thomas Basset
14 Thomas Basset d c 1492 = Alice
15 Richard Basset d 1509 =
16 Juliane (who married in 1511 John Wintershull and has daughters Alice &
Juliane, poss the John who left will 1545 - the only child he seems to
mention is his daughter and executrix Julyan Cooke)

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hants/vol4/pp249-267

descent of Wintershull
1 John I alive 1279
17 John II lord in 1340, alive 1362
18 John III the younger will 1396, children Thomas, John IV, Joan [prob the
one who d. 1395 with wife Katherine in history of parliament]
19 John IV [prob the one d. 1433-4 with wife Elizabeth, son Thomas in
history of parliament]
20 Robert (son of John IV)
10 Thomas V (son of Robert) d. 1476-7
21 Robert (son of Thomas V) d 1487 [petitioned for manorial records to
Elizabeth Wintershull]
22 Robert (son of Robert) b c. 1479, d. 1549
23 John (son of Robert)
24 John (son of John) made proof of age in 1565, d. 1571
25 William alive 1601

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/surrey/vol3/pp80-86

descent of Bramley
2 Walter [= Juliana Romyn* see also note re Thomas IV above]
4 Thomas I, d 1339, son of Walter, m. Alice = Loxley
5 William d 1361
6 Thomas II [d 1388 acc to his of parliament]
7 Thomas III d 1414-15 [1400 all other accounts, incl hop]
8 Thomas IV proof of age taken 1418, d. 1420
9 Agnes Basset, sister of Thomas IV
26 Joan Weston (later Catton), sister of Thomas IV
27 William Weston
28 Joan Weston's daughter Margaret Appesley
29 John Pope, Joan Weston's grandson by another daughter

*

- 103
<http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hants/vol3/pp102-110#anchorn103>.
Inq. p.m. 8 Hen. V, No. 92. This Thomas was the son of Thomas de
Wintershull, son of Thomas de Wintershull, son of Walter de Wintershull and
Juliana his wife, sister of John Romyn, father of John Romyn, father of
John Romyn, father of Richard Romyn, father of John Romyn.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hants/vol3/pp102-110

descent of Frenches
Robert son of John, 1465
10 Thomas d. 1477
22? Robert d 1547
23 John, (son of Rober)t d 1549
24 John (son of John) alive 1570
25 William (son of John) alive 1598

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/surrey/vol3/pp390-395

descent of Catteshull

19 John IV alive 1421
20 Robert
21 Thomas senior (son of Robert) alive 1430
.
24 John 1565

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/150cb7cc1bec8b57?compose=150d4de9852efbde

descent of Polsted (not particularly helpful)

2 Walter
26 Joan Catton & 9 Agnes Basset sued John Loxly for the manor in 1424
30 John Weston (son of Joan) & 9 Agnes Basset disputed it against John
Jenyn in 1441
[John Jenyn was son of Bernard Jenyn who had married Elizabeth Loxley,
great granddaughter of Alice by her son Robert, half brother to 5 & 6

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/surrey/vol3/pp16-24

Trying to mesh these together we get something like

William Wintershull d 1287 m. Beatrice Neville
1 John (b c 1252, d >1287)
2 Edmund
3 Walter = Juliana Romyn
3.1 Thomas d. 1340 = Alice d 1385 = Henry Loxley
3.1.1. William d < 1385
3.1.2 Thomas d. 1388
3.1.2.1 Thomas b c 1364 d. 1400 = Joan = John Waterton d 1417/18
3.1.2.1.1 Thomas d. 1420 = Isabel Romyn
3.1.2.1.2 Agnes = Basset
3.1.2.1.2.1 Thomas Basset
3.1.2.1.2.1.1 Thomas Basset d c 1492
3.1.2.1.2.1.1.1 Richard Basset d 1509 = Juliane = John Wintershull (d.
1545?)
3.1.2.1.3 Joan = William Weston, Catton [acc to Burke, Joan Pope & Marg.
Apsley were not her daughters but her great granddaughters, he has:]
3.1.2.1.3.1 William Weston
3.1.2.1.3.2 John Weston d 1440 = Alicia Gymond
3.1.2.1.3.2.1 William dsp
3.1.2.1.3.2.2 Joan Weston = Thomas Pope
3.1.2.1.3.2.3 Margaret Weston = William Wells, John Apsley


somewhere among the descendants of William and Beatrice we need to fit:


1 John I alive 1279 (same as John above, d >1289?)
1.1 ? John II 1340, 1362
1.1.1 John III d 1396 = Katherine
1.1.1.1 Thomas
1.1.1.2 John IV d 1433-4 = Elizabeth
1.1.1.2.1 Robert
1.1.1.2.1.1 Thomas d. 1476-7
1.1.1.2.1.1.1 Robert d 1487 [or d. 1509? see Burgham]
1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1 Robert b. c. 1479, d. 1549 [same as Robert who dies 1547?
see Frenches]
1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1 John
1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1 John d 1571
1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 William d. >1601
1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2 Thomas b c 1497 [but 17years between him and above Robert?]
see Burgham

best

mk

[Patricia A. Junkin via]

I have that Jane Wyntershull was the daughter of Robert Wyntershull who married Jane Sandis. Frenchess was Worplesdon, I think. In Robert Wintershull's will he mentions Worplesdon. Robert was the son of Robert:
Copies of feoffment with appointment of attorneys for livery of seisin, and counterpart 1) Henry Stoughton senior 2) Robert Wyntershull heir of Robert Wyntershull senior, deceased, (viz son of Thomas the son of Robert senior) and Anne his wife. Manor of Catteshall, Godalming. With receipt for rent for Catteshall manor paid by William More, Michaelmas 1582 (found clipped to the feoffment) LM/343/3/1-2 16 Nov 1484 -1582
This line is from William and Beatrice Neville.
Pat

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[John Watson]

Hi,

A bit peripheral to my own researches, but see:
http://johnmwatson.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/the-two-john-watertons.html

Regards,

John

[mk via]

Thanks Pat

Very helpful! I haven't seen the will, do you have a source for it? I take
it he is the Robert who dies 1547 or 1549. Where can I find the IPM? Any
idea where he fits in to the descent from William and Beatrice?

all the best,

Monica

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Patricia A. Junkin <paju...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

> I have that Jane Wyntershull was the daughter of Robert Wyntershull who
> married Jane Sandis. Frenchess was Worplesdon, I think. In Robert
> Wintershull's will he mentions Worplesdon. Robert was the son of Robert:
> Copies of feoffment with appointment of attorneys for livery of seisin,
> and counterpart 1) Henry Stoughton senior 2) Robert Wyntershull heir of
> Robert Wyntershull senior, deceased, (viz son of Thomas the son of Robert
> senior) and Anne his wife. Manor of Catteshall, Godalming. With receipt for
> rent for Catteshall manor paid by William More, Michaelmas 1582 (found
> clipped to the feoffment) LM/343/3/1-2 16 Nov 1484 -1582
> This line is from William and Beatrice Neville.
> Pat

[mk via]

Thanks John,

Curiously, I find I have Mundane in my tree as ancestress of some
Saltmarshes (related to the Saltmarshes on a friend's tree), but without
parents, so this is of interest.

All the best,

Monica

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:09 PM, John Watson via <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
wrote:

[Patricia A. Junkin via]

OK...again trying to be mindful of the length...will post in three sections:Monica,
I purchased Robert's will through PRO. I have sources for all of the following. This study also is important to establishing the marriage of Elizabeth St. John to Thomas Slyfield. Pat
Stephen de Turnham and Edelia de Broc’s daughter, Beatrice married 1) Ralph de Fay and 2) Hugh de Neville and 3) Hugh de Plaiz.[1] By Ralph de Fay, Beatrice had John, Phillipa who married William Neville and Maud who married Roger de Clere. Beatrice, daughter of Phillipa de Neville, who had the manor of Frobury, co. Hants. as her maritagium,[2] married William de Wintershull. In 1259 William de Wintreshull and his wife Beatrice sued, Philippa de Neville in Bromley, Puttenham and Uners.[3] In 1261 John de Wyntereshull sued William Godalming and his wife Joania in Great Bocham [Bookham] and Wyntershull[4] In 1332 John son of John de Abernoun acknowledges that he owes to Thomas Wyntreshull 10 marks; to be levied, in default of his payment of his lands and chattels in Southampton (Hampshire).[5] Richard ate Rigge [Rugge] sued John de Sothenye and his wife Agnes in Bromlegh.[6] The Wintershull descendants maintained interest in Shalford, Godalming, Bramley and Stoke juxta Guildford until 1575 when they are enumerated in the IPM of John Wintershull.[1]

>

[Patricia A. Junkin via]

Stoke juxta Guildford is adjacent to Aldham, seat of the Aldham family whose lord, “Baldwin de Aldham, married Nichola de Wintershull, still living in 1325. She and their son Sir Francis (who was executed in 1322) are both mentioned in an account that refers to the family's Sussex manors of Heighton and Jevington.” Nichola may have been the daughter of a Francis or the sister of Francis Wyntreshull who with his wife Juliana in Bromley are sued in 1329 by Richard atte Grene of Ellisworth, vicar of Shalford church and Godalmyng.[1] Francis Aldham's sister, Joan may have married John de St Clere, through whom many of the manors descended to the Gage family. Nevertheless, another source concludes that the wife of John St. Clere in 1347 was Isolda Aldham the widow of William Inge of Eightham, Kent and the mother of Joan Inge who married Eudo la Zouche and sister of Margery Aldham Pecham.[2]

[Patricia A. Junkin via]

The inquisitions postmortem of 1346 which mention those who died in Normandy and Calais included Thomas de Wyntreshull (Wintershill) of Co. Surrey (of the family of who held manors in that county including Bramley.[Calais Roll][1]. By 1409, Thomas de Wyntreshulle by his custos sued George Brewes for a carucate of land in Bromlegh, which Philippa de Neville had given to William de Wyntershulle and Beatrice, his wife, and heirs of their bodies in the reign of Henry III[2] In 1435, Robert Wuntershull, Thomas Slyfield [Bruce Jun1] and Thomas Elyot sued Thomas Waller and Johanna of Guildford and Stoke[3]) In 1470: Edmund Shaa, John Asheton kt., Henry Belknap esq., John Norbury esq., Nicholas Gaynesford esquire, Geoffrey Dowenys (?), Henry Merland, and John Shaa sued Thomas Slyfied and Anna in Pollesden, Great Bookham, Dorking, Chertsey, Lethered, and Stoke d’Abernon.[4] The manor of Bookham also was antiently held by the Dabernons when John Dabernon, kt., was holding land in Bookham in 1273[5] John Dabernon was born in 1260 and by an unknown wife had John who married Maud Gifford.[6]

[James Toone]

[James Toone]

I have recently been researching my ancestors (through two parallel lines) the Mellersh or Mellershe families, and in my trawling, I came across the transcript of a document relating to an occurrence that took place at Dunsfold in the winter of 1578 and which involved Robert 'Wintershall' in very intriquing and terrible circumstances. If anybody with an interest in the Mellersh family or the Wintershull family would like a copy of my transcript, please reply to this message, I am happy to share the research and to learn anything they may have about the Robert I mentioned.