Agnes Harris, emigrated 1630
James Dow Allen
Agnes Harris emigrated to Connecticut in 1630
aboard the Mary and John.
Here's the Descendant line towards me.
1. Agnes Harris m. William Spencer
2. Sarah Spencer (1636-1691) m. John Case (1616-1704)
3. Richard (Capt.) Case (1669-1746) m. Amy Reed/Reade (1678-)
4. Richard (Sgt.) Case (1710-1769) m. Mercy Holcomb
5. Timothy Case (1759-1850) m. Esther Brown (1762-1838)
Recently the newsgroup debunked the royal pretensions of Agnes'
husband William Spencer (`a Whitbred does not a Radcliffe make'),
but what about Agnes Harris herself?
Part of her alleged Ahnentafel follows.
(The line from Margery Hext to Anne Boteler appears in SGM archive
contributions by Ed Mann. Thanks for all the help, Ed!)
1. Agnes Harris (1604-)
2. Bartholomew Harris (-1615), Mayor of Barnstaple.
3. Elizabeth Collamore (1566-1647).
6. Henry Collamore (-1625).
12. John Collamore.
13. Margery Hext (-1551).
26. Thomas Hext (-1550).
27. Wilmot Poyntz (1487-1558)
52. John Hext.
53. Joan/Jane Fortescue (1450-1524).
54. William Poyntz.
106. John Fortescue (1420-1481), Lord of Whympston.
108. Humphrey Poyntz (-1487), Lord of Elkstone.
Ancestors 106 and 108 each has a pedigree going back to an early King.
For example, continuing the table:
216. Nicholas Poyntz
432. Robert Poyntz (1359-1439)
865. Elizabeth de Clanvowe
1731. Philippa Talbot
3463. Anne Boteler
6927. Angharad verch Griffith
13855. Emma d' Aldithley
27711. Bertrade Mainwaring
55423. Amicia de Meschines
110847. Hugh Kevelioc (1147-1181), 3rd Earl of Chester
221695. Maud de Caen (-1189)
443390. Robert de Caen (-1147)
886780. King Henry I of England (1068-1145)
Please confirm or debunk.
James D. Allen
Louise Staley
"James Dow Allen" wrote in message;
<snip>
> 106. John Fortescue (1420-1481), Lord of Whympston.
> 108. Humphrey Poyntz (-1487), Lord of Elkstone.
>
> Ancestors 106 and 108 each has a pedigree going back to an early King.
Could you expand on this? I don't have a royal pedigree for John Fortescue,
although this is not to say there isn't one.
The pedigree I have for this John Fortescue is:
1. John Fortescue Lord of Whympston was born about 1420 and died on 11 Mar
1481.
2. William Fortescue was born about 1385.
3. Matilda Falwell .
4. William Fortescue Lord of Whympston (1) was born about 1345 in
Whympston, DEV, ENG (1) and died after 1410.
5. Elizabeth Beauchamp (1) was born before 1349 (1) and died after 1409
in
Whympston, DEV, ENG.
6. John Falwell
8. William Fortescue Lord of Whympston (2) , died before 1375.
9. Alice Strechleigh (2).
10. Sir John Beauchamp (2) was born about 1315 and died on 8 Apr 1349.
11. Joan Wife of John Beauchamp .
16. Sir Adam Fortescue (2).
17. Anna de La Port (2).
18. Walter Strechleigh (2).
20. Sir John Beauchamp was born about 1285 and died between 1337-1346.
21. Alice Nonant was born before 1295 and died before 1344.
34. William de La Port (2).
40. Sir Humphry Beauchamp Lord of Rhyme (3) was born before Mar
1252-1253
and died before 18 Jun 1316 (3).
41. Sibyl Oliver (4) was born in Wambrook, Som, Eng and died after 1306.
42. Sir Roger Nonant Lord of Cliston or Brode Clist .
80. Robert Beauchamp Lord of Hache (5) was born in 1219 and died before
25
Oct 1263 (6).
81. Alice Mohun (5) was born about 1228 and died before 1284 (5).
82. Walter Oliver Lord of Wambrook .
160. Robert Beauchamp Lord of Hache (6) was born about 1190 and died on
1
Feb 1251-1252.
161. Juliana Wife of Robert Beauchamp .
162. Renaud Mohun Lord of Dunster (7) was born about 1206 (8) , died on
20
Jan 1257-1258 in Torre Mohun, DEV, ENG (9) and was buried in
Newenham
Abbey.
163. Hawise Fitz Geoffrey (7) , died before 1243.
320. Simon Valletort , died in 1199.
321. Daughter Beauchamp was born before 1176.
324. Renaud Mohun Lord of Dunster (10) was born in 1184 and died in
1213.
325. Alice Briwere , died in 1233.
326. Geoffrey Fitz Piers Earl of Essex 4th (11) was born in Walden, ESS,
ENG, died on 12 Oct 1213 and was buried in Shouldham, NFK, ENG.
327. Avelina Clare (12) was born before 1172 and died before 4 Jun 1225.
642. Robert Beauchamp (7) , died in 1195.
648. William Mohun Lord of Dunster (7) was born about 1156 and died in
Oct
1193.
649. Lucy Wife of William Mohun .
650. William Briwere Lord of Horsley , died in 1226 (7).
651. Beatrice Valle .
652. Piers Lutegareshale , died before 1198.
653. Maud Wife of Piers Lutegareshale .
654. Roger Clare Earl of Hertford 3rd (10) was born about 1116 in
Tonbridge
Castle, KEN, ENG and died in 1173 in Oxfordshire, Eng (10).
655. Maud St. Hilary was born in 1132 in Field Dalling, NFK, ENG and died
in
1195 in Norfolk, Eng.
1308. Richard Clare Earl of Hertford 1st (13) was born between 1084-1090
and died on 15 Apr 1136 in Forest Of Gwent, Abergavenny, Wls (13).
1309. Adeliza de Gernon (13) was born on 13 Feb 1094 and died in 1128.
2616. Gilbert Fitz Richard Earl of Clare (14) was born before 1066 (14)
and died in 1117 (14).
2617. Adeliza Cleremont (14).
2618. Ranulph de Meschines Earl of Chester, Vicomte de Bayeux , died in
Jan
1129 and was buried in St. Werburgh's, Chester.
2619. Lucia of East Angies , died about 1136.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Sources
1. Weis, Frederick, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came
to
America Before 1700, (7th Edition, 1992), 246E-33.
2. Harlian Society, Herald's Visitations of Devon in 1531, 1564 and 1620
with
additons by J.L. Vivian., (Original Visitation of Devon, 1620, Harl.
MS,
Visitation of Devon 1564, Harl. MS).
3. Weis, Frederick, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, (5th Ed 1999), 153A-7.
4. Ibid, 153-7.
5. Ibid, 153A-6.
6. Weis, Frederick, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came
to
America Before 1700, (7th Edition, 1992), 246B-24.
7. Ibid, quoted by Pat Petersen in e-mail.
8. Ibid, 143-28.
9. Weis, Frederick, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, (5th Ed 1999), 153A-5.
10. Weis, Frederick, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came
to
America Before 1700, (7th Edition, 1992), quoted by Pat Petersen
e-mail.
11. Weis, Frederick, The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, (5th Ed 1999), 160-3.
12. Ibid, 153A-4.
13. Ibid, 153-2.
14. Ibid, 153-1.
Louise
Kay Allen AG
only gives son Nicholas. You would need to find a will, or other primary
document, to document William.
Kay Allen AG
Douglas Richardson
Thank you for your good post.
Agnes (Harris) (Spencer) Edwards' best royal line currently is a
descent through her Fortescue ancestry from Countess Judith, wife of
Waltheof, Earl of Northumberland. Judith was the niece of William the
Conqueror. Agnes Harris also possesses a valid Magna Carta Surety
descent through her Poyntz ancestry.
The descent you've outlined below through the Clanvowe family from
King Henry I needs more evidence. The weak link in the descent is
the Clanvowe-Talbot connection. The lineage depends on the
interpreation of a document in the papal registers in which the
brother of Elizabeth de Clanvowe claimed to be the nephew ("nepos" in
Latin) of a Talbot. The word "nepos" in that period usually meant
nephew or grandson, but, I've found a few instances where it also
referred to a close male kinsman (i.e., first cousin). Since multiple
meanings of "nepos" are possible, more documentation is needed before
this part of the line can be accepted.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
jdall...@yahoo.com (James Dow Allen) wrote in message news:<266426e1.0110...@posting.google.com>...
Douglas Richardson
William Poyntz is mentioned in his father, Humphrey Poyntz'
Inquisition Post Mortem. Following William Poyntz' death, his two
daughters, including Wilmot, sued their uncle, Nicholas Poyntz, in
Chancery for possession Poyntz family property. An abstract of the
Chancery suit is included in the published Poyntz Genealogy.
Wilmot Poyntz subsequently married Thomas Hext, Esquire, of Pickwell
(in Georgeham), Devon. The inquisition taken at her death shows that
she was in possession of property which she inherited as co-heiress to
her grandfather, Humphrey Poyntz.
So, there is nothing weak about either William or Wilmot Poyntz' place
in the Poyntz family pedigree. The only thing which is unknown is the
name of William Poyntz' wife.
Since Kay has access to the Poyntz Genealogy, perhaps she would be
kind enough to post the transcript of the Chancery suit involving
Wilmot (Poyntz) Hext and her uncle, Nicholas Poyntz, found in the
book.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
all...@pacbell.net (Kay Allen AG) wrote in message news:<3BCD96EF...@pacbell.net>...
Cristopher Nash
> 326. Geoffrey Fitz Piers Earl of Essex 4th (11) was born in Walden, ESS,
> ENG, died on 12 Oct 1213 and was buried in Shouldham, NFK, ENG.
[SNIP]
> 652. Piers Lutegareshale , died before 1198.
> 653. Maud Wife of Piers Lutegareshale .
Note that this parentage for Geoffrey Fitz Piers has been disputed in
this forum. See e.g. Todd A Farmerie to GEN:Med 10 Jul 98.
Cris
--
Ed Mann
Selected Descendants of Egbert of England
1 King Egbert of England aka: 1st King of England ref #: Ä1-13
+Redburga aka: Raedburh ref #: BRF:4
2 King Æthelwulf of England aka: 2d King of England ref #: Ä1-14
+Osburh aka: Osburga ref #: BRF:5
3 King Alfred of England aka: "Alfred the Great" ref #: Ä1-15
+Ealhswith of Mercia aka: Æthelswitha ref #: BRF:9
4 Alfthryth of England aka: Elfrida ref #: Ä43-16
+Count Baudouin II de Flanders ref #: Ä162-17
5 Count Arnulf I de Flanders aka: Arnold I of Flanders ref #: Ä162-18
+Adelaide de Vermandois aka: Adele de Vermandois ref #: Ä48-20
6 Count Baudouin III de Flanders aka: Baldwin III of Flanders ref #:
Ä162-19
+Mathilda von Saxony ref #: (Ä162-19)
7 Count Arnulf II de Flanders aka: Arnold II de Flanders ref #: Ä162-20
+Susanna di Italia aka: Rosella di Italia ref #: Ä145-19
8 Count Baudouin IV de Flanders aka: Baudouin IV de Flanders ref #:
Ä162-21
+Ogive de Luxemburg aka: Otgiva de Luxemburg ref #: (Ä162-21)
9 Count Baudouin V de Lille aka: Baldwin V de Lille ref #: Ä162-22
+Aelis de France aka: Adela Capet ref #: Ä128-22
10 Baudouin VI de Flanders aka: "Baudoin the Good" ref #: Ä163-23
+Richilde von Egisheim ref #: (Ä106-22)
11 Count Baudouin II de Hainault ref #: Ä163-24
+Ida de Louvain ref #: Ä160-23
12 Count Baudouin III de Hainault ref #: Ä163-25
+Yolande de Guelders ref #: (Ä98A-25)
13 Ida de Hainault ref #: (Ä98A-25)
+Roger III de Toeni ref #: Ä98A-25
14 Godeheut de Toeni aka: Godehold de Toeni ref #: Ä163A-27
+William de Mohun ref #: Ä143-26
15 William de Mohun ref #: Ä143-26A
+Lucy
16 Sir Reynold de Mohun aka: Earl of Somerset ref #: Ä143-27
+Alice de Briwere ref #: (Ä246B-28)
17 Sir Reynold de Mohun ref #: Ä143-28
+Hawise FitzGeoffrey ref #: Ä246B-28
18 Alice de Mohun ref #: Ä246B-29
+Robert V de Beauchamp ref #: (Ä246B-29)
19 Sir Humphrey de Beauchamp aka: Knt. ref #: (Ä246B-30)
+Sibyl Oliver ref #: (Ä246B-30)
20 Sir John Beauchamp aka: Knt. ref #: Ä246B-31
+Joan aka: Joan Nonant ref #: (Ä246B-31)
21 Sir John Beauchamp aka: Knt. ref #: Ä246E-32
+Margaret Whalesburgh aka: Margaret Whalesborough ref #: (Ä246E-32)
22 Elizabeth Beauchamp ref #: Ä246E-33
+William Fortescue aka: Lord of Whympston, Cty. Devon ref #:
(Ä246E-33)
23 William Fortescue ref #: Ä246E-34
+Matilda Falwell aka: Mabilla Falwell ref #: (Ä246E-34)
24 John Fortescue ref #: Ä246E-35
+Joan Prutteston ref #: (Ä246E-35)
25 Joane Fortescue ref #: Ä246E-36
+Thomas Hext ref #: (Ä246E-36)
26 Thomas Hext ref #: Ä246E-37
+Wilmot Poyntz ref #: (Ä246E-37)
27 Margery Hext ref #: Ä246E-38
+John Collamore ref #: (Ä246E-38)
28 Henry Collamore ref #: Ä246E-39
+Margaret Blight ref #: (Ä246E-39)
29 Elizabeth Collamore ref #: Ä246E-40
+Bartholomew Harris ref #: (Ä246E-40)
30 Agnes Harris ref #: Ä246E-41
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@earthlink.net
Reference shown is only one of possibly several sources for this
individual. Not all data shown is necessarily from this source.
References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AACPW = Roberts & Reitwiesner, _American Ancestors and Cousins of
the Princess of Wales_, [page].
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
NK1 = Roberts, _Notable_Kin_Volume_One_, [page].
NK2 = Roberts, _Notable_Kin_Volume_Two_, [page].
O = Hardy, Colonial_Families_of_the_Southern_States_of_America, [pg].
PA = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, 2d ed. [page:para].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed. Caveat lector.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.
WFT = Broderbund's World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] Caveat lector.
WMC = Wurt's Magna Charta, [vol]:[page] Caveat lector.
Louise Staley
"Cristopher Nash" wrote in message:
> Louise Staley wrote --
Mandeville. I wasn't aware that the entire link between Geoffrey Fitz Piers
and Piers Lutegareshale had been disputed. Perhaps taf could comment?
Louise
Douglas Richardson
Complete Peerage gives solid evidence that Geoffrey Fitz Peter's
parents were Peter de Ludgershall and his wife, Maud. Peter is known
to have held the manor of Cherhill, Wiltshire. He was evidently also
known as Peter the Forester. As such, I assume that he was forester
of the royal forest of Ludgershall adjacent to Ludgershall Castle in
Wiltshire. Maud's parentage is not known. It appears, however, that
she had an interest in property at Costow, Wiltshire which may well
have been her maritagium. Maud was probably closely related (possibly
sister?) to Roger Fitz Geoffrey, of Somerford, Wiltshire, lineal
ancestor of the Lords Mautravers. If Roger was her brother, it would
explain the appearance of the name Geoffrey among her children.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
c...@windsong.u-net.com (Cristopher Nash) wrote in message news:<a05100300b7f3e3d746ce@[10.0.1.2]>...
Louise Staley
<snip>
> 18 Alice de Mohun ref #: Ä246B-29
> +Robert V de Beauchamp ref #: (Ä246B-29)
> 19 Sir Humphrey de Beauchamp aka: Knt. ref #: (Ä246B-30)
> +Sibyl Oliver ref #: (Ä246B-30)
> 20 Sir John Beauchamp aka: Knt. ref #: Ä246B-31
> +Joan aka: Joan Nonant ref #: (Ä246B-31)
> 21 Sir John Beauchamp aka: Knt. ref #: Ä246E-32
> +Margaret Whalesburgh aka: Margaret Whalesborough ref #: (Ä246E-32)
> 22 Elizabeth Beauchamp ref #: Ä246E-33
> +William Fortescue aka: Lord of Whympston, Cty. Devon ref #:
> (Ä246E-33)
Back in February this line was discussed and Ivor West posted the following
correction to Ancestral Roots. It suggests that number 20. married Alice
Nonant and that the wife of 21. is not known other than her name was Joan.
No further discussion ensued after Ivor's post. Since then has anyone looked
at this to either support the Weis line posted by the indefatigable Ed Mann
or the line posted by Ivor?
From: Ivor West
Subject: Re: Pedigree of Elizabeth Beauchamp
Date: 2001-02-24 10:18:07 PST
Due to the number of Johns in this family, there is some confusion
with Beauchamp of Hatch and Beauchamp of Ryme. There are two lines
from Robert. The direct line is Beauchamp of Hatch: the cadet line is
Beauchamp of Ryme.
Amalgamated from CP, Hutchins:Dorset, DxP, Risdon:Survey Devon,
DCNQ23:
Robert de Beauchamp m. Alice de Mohun
|---------------------------|
HATCH RYME
John de Beauchamp Humphrey de Beauchamp
(1250) - 1283 (1251 - 1317 )
m Cecily de Vivonia m. Sybil Oliver
1257 - 1320 ( )
| |
John de Beauchamp John de Beauchamp
1st Lord Beauchamp (1280) - 1336
1273 - 1336 m. Alice, dau
m Joan de Chenduit Roger de Nonant
( ) (Audley?) ( )
| |
John de Beauchamp John de Beauchamp
2nd Lord Beauchamp (1310) - 1349
1306 - 1343 m. Joan --------
m.Margaret de ( )
Whalesborough |
(1310) - 1361 |
| |
John de Beauchamp Elizabeth de Beauchamp
3rd Lord Beauchamp 1349 - 1409
1331 - 1361 m. William de Fortescue
m.Alice de Beauchamp
of Warwick
Douglas Richardson
I developed a line of descent for the Beauchamp family of Ryme, Dorset
several years ago for Ancestral Roots. I believe the line is still
sound. I used both primary and secondary sources when preparing the
line. I cited all my sources. Perhaps Ed Mann or someone can post the
descent as it appears in Ancestral Roots for you. Mr. West's
rendition of this line below contains a few errors.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
"Louise Staley" <sta...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message news:<9czz7.8176$bE1....@news1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au>...
Gryphon801
found in Charles Fitch-Northen's article, "The Trowbridge Ancestry", in TG
9:3-39 (1988) and in the article by Charles M. Hansen and Neil D. Thompson,
"The Wydevill's Quartering for Beauchamp", _The Coat of Arms_ [n.s.] 9:178-87
(1992).
Ed Mann
Perhaps someone else has a more specific idea.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank W Bullen" <fwbu...@iafrica.com>
To: "Ed Mann" <edl...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Selected Descendants of Egbert of England (was Agnes
Harris,emigrated 1630)
> Hi!
>
> Thanks verty much, Ed.
>
> Do you know if "The Complete Peerage" is available in book shops or on the
> Internet?
>
> Regards
>
> Frank W Bullen
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ed Mann <edl...@earthlink.net>
> To: Frank W Bullen <fwbu...@iafrica.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 2:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Selected Descendants of Egbert of England (was Agnes
> Harris,emigrated 1630)
>
>
> > Nothing beyond what I've cited.
Dewayne E. Perry
>
> I think that you may find a used copy for sale somewhere, but not cheap.
> Perhaps someone else has a more specific idea.
>
> FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
>
> Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@earthlink.net
use http://www.addall.com and search for complete peerage - not as good values
these days as a while back. but still not tooo bad. check the used books
as well - it well send yo back to the new 4pges per page 13 in 6 vol set.
cheers - dewayne
ps also check the archives - we had a long discussion about this about 6 months ago.
Rosie Bevan
use to evaluate the cheapest new set you can get. Overseas people need to
add on the cost of postage.
For a second hand set www.bookfinder.com is a good source.There's a set
going for $358 at the moment.
Cheers
Rosie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Mann" <edl...@earthlink.net>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 11:47 AM
Subject: Complete Peerage available for purchase? (WAS: Re: Selected
Descendants of Egbert of England (was Agnes Harris,emigrated 1630)
> I think that you may find a used copy for sale somewhere, but not cheap.
>
> Perhaps someone else has a more specific idea.
>
> From: "Frank W Bullen" <fwbu...@iafrica.com>
> To: "Ed Mann" <edl...@earthlink.net>
> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 9:50 AM
> Subject: Re: Selected Descendants of Egbert of England (was Agnes
> Harris,emigrated 1630)
>
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > Thanks verty much, Ed.
> >
> > Do you know if "The Complete Peerage" is available in book shops or on
the
> > Internet?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Frank W Bullen
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ed Mann <edl...@earthlink.net>
> > To: Frank W Bullen <fwbu...@iafrica.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 2:59 AM
> > Subject: Re: Selected Descendants of Egbert of England (was Agnes
> > Harris,emigrated 1630)
> >
> >
> > > Nothing beyond what I've cited.
> > >
Arthur Murata
Amazon.com for nearly $ 400 US. It did not, of course,
include the elusive Volume 14 - I am still searching for
that and Amazon does not have it. Good hunting and hope you
get a better price than I did, Bronwen Edwards
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com
D. Spencer Hines
Excellent Value.
Yes, check the archives.
Many posts on this.
"You're the top! - You're an Arrow collar. - You're the top! - You're a
Coolidge dollar. - You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire,
You're an O'Neill drama, You're Whistler's mama, You're Camembert. -
You're a rose, You're Inferno's Dante, You're the nose - On the Great
Durante. I'm just in the way, as the French would say - "De trop," -
But if, baby, I'm the bottom - You're the top." ---- Cole Porter, Yale
'13 -- 1934
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original
material contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It
may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution
to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in
writing.
------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"Dewayne E. Perry" <de-p...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:3BD2047D...@swbell.net...
D. Spencer Hines
Bloody academics can't find their own derrières with a torch and a
cattle probe ---- or both hands at high noon on the Champ de Mars.
Check the Usual Suspects.
A set of CP without Volume XIV is like a woman with an expensive dress
and nowhere to go ---- or Talisker drunk straight from the bottle, sans
a glass to put it in.
Deus Vult.
"You're the top! - You're an Arrow collar. - You're the top! - You're a
Coolidge dollar. - You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire,
You're an O'Neill drama, You're Whistler's mama, You're Camembert. -
You're a rose, You're Inferno's Dante, You're the nose - On the Great
Durante. I'm just in the way, as the French would say - "De trop," -
But if, baby, I'm the bottom - You're the top." ---- Cole Porter, Yale
'13 -- 1934
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original
material contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It
may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution
to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in
writing.
------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"Arthur Murata" <lostc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2001102023171...@web13301.mail.yahoo.com...
Renia
You a cousin of mine, thought Humphrey Beauchamp's daddy, Robert? (And
you, JSG?)
Renia
Bryant Smith
> I just purchased the slipcovered 2000 reprint from
> Amazon.com for nearly $ 400 US. It did not, of course,
> include the elusive Volume 14 - I am still searching for
> that and Amazon does not have it. Good hunting and hope you
> get a better price than I did, Bronwen Edwards
>
HOLD EVERYTHING! Check me if I'm mistaken, but there was a "14 volumes
in 13" reprint and the 2000 reprint (isn't that the 4 pages on each
leaf edition?) should have included that version which included the
14 volumes in 13. Did it not?
Also, we're talking about the 2d edition (1982) here, are we not? Is
that the latest edition?
Bryant Smith
Playa Palo Seco
Costa Rica
Louise Staley
Nobody bit last time this was posted so I had no idea if the original
Ancestral Roots line was still the accepted one. Thanks for your post.
Louise
"Douglas Richardson" wrote in message
D. Spencer Hines
volumes
| in 13" reprint and the 2000 reprint (isn't that the 4 pages on each
| leaf edition?) should have included that version which included the
No. That's Volumes I through XI, XII part 1, XII part 2, and XIII ----
microprint, four pages to one.
Volume XIV is not in the set. It must be purchased separately and is
not four pages to one.
"Young whelks and winkles, in pubs, do it, Little sponges in their tubs
do it. Let's do it, let's fall in love. Cold salmon, quite 'gainst
their wish, do it, Even lazy jellyfish do it, Let's do it, let's fall in
love. The most select schools of cod do it, Though it shocks 'em I
fear, Sturgeon, thank God, do it, Have some caviar dear. In shady
shoals, English soles do it, Goldfish in the privacy of bowls do it,
Let's do it, let's fall in love." ---- Cole Porter, Yale '13 -- 1928
Dewayne E. Perry
Arthur Murata wrote:
>
> I just purchased the slipcovered 2000 reprint from
> Amazon.com for nearly $ 400 US. It did not, of course,
> include the elusive Volume 14 - I am still searching for
> that and Amazon does not have it. Good hunting and hope you
> get a better price than I did, Bronwen Edwards
>
no elusive but bloody expensive - well over $100 - again
check http://www.addall.com
cheers - dewayne
Dewayne E. Perry
>
> If you live in the UK http://www.bookbrain.co.uk/ is the best service to
> use to evaluate the cheapest new set you can get. Overseas people need to
> add on the cost of postage.
> For a second hand set www.bookfinder.com is a good source.There's a set
> going for $358 at the moment.
>
> Cheers
>
> Rosie
welllll, except that this set is a really old one: 1887-98 in 8 vols and not
in very good shape at all. and at only a bit more, the 4 in one page 13 in 6
vol is a much better and up to date buy. http://www.addall.com looks thru
a whole raft of booksellers and the best buy there if you search for "cokayne
complete peerage" and take the first of two possibilities you get some very
good bargains (i retract what i said last night - must have checked the
second one). skip the one that do not have it available and you get $326-328
from pickabook - very good value).
if you leave off the cokayne you also pick up hammond's 14th volume (exactly
the size and binding match for the 13 in 6 set which pickabook has at the lowest
price of $114-116 (normally list of 181)
cheers - dewayne macfrugal
Tim Powys-Lybbe
ski...@racsa.co.cr (Bryant Smith) wrote:
> lostc...@yahoo.com (Arthur Murata) wrote in message news:
> <2001102023171...@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>...
> > I just purchased the slipcovered 2000 reprint from
> > Amazon.com for nearly $ 400 US. It did not, of course,
> > include the elusive Volume 14 - I am still searching for
> > that and Amazon does not have it. Good hunting and hope you
> > get a better price than I did, Bronwen Edwards
> >
>
> HOLD EVERYTHING! Check me if I'm mistaken, but there was a "14 volumes
> in 13" reprint
It is indeed fourteen volumes but only goes up to Volume 13 as there are
two volumes 12: 12/1 and 12/2. (Or whatever it should be in Roman
numerals.)
And it is 14 volumes in 6.
> and the 2000 reprint (isn't that the 4 pages on each leaf edition?
Yes.
) should have included that version which included the
> 14 volumes in 13. Did it not?
Here is where the confusion starts. Volume XIV (14) was only published
for the first time ever in 1998. It is, of course the fifteenth volume
of the series.
> Also, we're talking about the 2d edition (1982) here, are we not?
The second edition was started in 1910 and completed (it seems) in 1998.
In 1982 the then 14 volumes (1 to 13) were reprinted by photographic
copying and reduced so that four pages of the original were on one page.
This 1982 reprint was NOT a second edition.
The 2000 reprint was precisely of the 1982 Microprint version.
> Is that the latest edition?
The latest, second, edition remains the one that was started in 1910 and
finished (probably) in 1998. There is some talk of a third edition but
that would probably take 50 years to achieve and would require enormous
funding from somewhere; I can't see it happening myself.
You can probably get volume XIV from Heraldry Today:
http://www.heraldrytoday.co.uk/
But it's not cheap.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@powys.org
For a patchwork of bygones: http://powys.org
Chris Phillips
> HOLD EVERYTHING! Check me if I'm mistaken, but there was a "14 volumes
> leaf edition?) should have included that version which included the
> 14 volumes in 13. Did it not?
The 2nd edition of Complete Peerage was "13 volumes in 14" - volume 13 was
split into two parts. So the reduced edition is really "14 volumes in 13 in
6". It doesn't include volume 14.
Chris Phillips
Gryphon801
doing on the ancestry of King Charles II. I am not aware of a personal descent
from this branch of the family, at least not yet.
Douglas Richardson
I published a detailed article on the parentage and English origin of
Agnes (Harris) (Spencer) Edwards of Hartford, Conn. in The American
Genealogist about 15 years ago. The same year, I also published
several Carolingian descents for Agnes Harris through her Beauchamp
and Fortescue ancestry in the book, Ancestral Roots, by Weis-Sheppard.
Both publications are still quite sound.
Years ago, when I first started working to find Agnes Harris' identity
and parentage, the previous researcher who worked on this line thought
she was a bastard daughter of a man named Tucker. Although it took me
seven years, I eventually found conclusive evidence which proved that
Agnes was the legitimate daughter and sister of two Mayors of
Barnstaple, Devon named Harris. My research was directly aided by
three individuals, George McCracken, FASG, John Insley Coddington,
FASG, and Gary Boyd Roberts, all of whom deserve honorable mention.
To assist my work, Mr. Coddington even sent me a book from his
personal library, which gift I still treasure as a token of his high
standards of collegiality.
Since that time, I've assembled a detailed monograph on Agnes Harris'
ancestry which I occasionally sell to interested parties. If you're
interested in a copy, Louise, please contact me for details. The
monograph provides family group sheets for several generations and
copies of much of the documentation behind the royal and Magna Carta
lines in Agnes Harris' ancestry. Also, for your interest, Agnes
Harris' descent from the Magna Carta baron, William Malet, will be
featured in the forthcoming book, Magna Carta Ancestry, which I expect
will appear sometime next year.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
"Louise Staley" <sta...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message news:<3bd29cdc$0$26099$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>...
D. Spencer Hines
Volume XIII was not "split into two parts".
Volume XII has two parts.
"Young whelks and winkles, in pubs, do it, Little sponges in their tubs
do it. Let's do it, let's fall in love. Cold salmon, quite 'gainst
their wish, do it, Even lazy jellyfish do it, Let's do it, let's fall in
love. The most select schools of cod do it, Though it shocks 'em I
fear, Sturgeon, thank God, do it, Have some caviar dear. In shady
shoals, English soles do it, Goldfish in the privacy of bowls do it,
Let's do it, let's fall in love." ---- Cole Porter, Yale '13 -- 1928
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original
material contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It
may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution
to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in
writing.
------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"Chris Phillips" <cgp...@cgp100.dabsol.co.uk> wrote in message
news:004401c15a38$41344ea0$834286d9@oemcomputer...
Tim Powys-Lybbe
"Dewayne E. Perry" <de-p...@swbell.net> wrote:
> Rosie Bevan wrote:
> > For a second hand set www.bookfinder.com is a good source.There's a set
> > going for $358 at the moment.
> >
>
> welllll, except that this set is a really old one: 1887-98 in 8 vols and not
> in very good shape at all.
Wow. This is the First Edition, the one that Cokayne did himself! It
is of historical importance even if the content is not as good as the
Second Edition. I have only ever seen one other copy of the 1st edition
myself.
Bryant Smith
amount of SNIPping. I may have to add a word or two here
and there to elucidate the context.]
Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote in message news:<752decc...@southfrm.demon.co.uk>...
> In message <a9b2ce02.01102...@posting.google.com>
> ski...@racsa.co.cr (Bryant Smith) wrote:
[SNIP]
>
> > lostc...@yahoo.com (Arthur Murata) wrote in message news:
> > <2001102023171...@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>...
> > > I just purchased the slipcovered 2000 reprint from
> > > Amazon.com for nearly $ 400 US. It did not, of course,
> > > include the elusive Volume 14 - I am still searching for
> > > that and Amazon does not have it.
On the contrary, I think they do. Read on.
[SNIP]
[Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:]
> It is indeed fourteen volumes but only goes up to Volume 13 as there are
> two volumes 12: 12/1 and 12/2.
>
[SNIP]
> And it is 14 volumes in 6.
[I wrote:}
> > and the 2000 reprint (isn't that the 4 pages on each leaf edition?
[Tim wrote:]
>
> Yes. [SNIP]
> Volume XIV (14) was only published
> for the first time ever in 1998. It is, of course the fifteenth volume
> of the series.
...
> In 1982 the then 14 volumes (1 to 13) were reprinted by photographic
> copying and reduced so that four pages of the original were on one page.
...
> You can probably get volume XIV from Heraldry Today:
[SNIP]
I checked Heraldry Today's website and could not find
the book there.
Unless I am mistaken, Volume XIV, the fifteenth book in
the CP series, is edited by Peter Hammond and is offered
by amazon.com under the title "Addenda and Corregenda."
their price is $171 but there is a "used" copy available
for $140, said by its offeror to be "Like New - Brand New,
Directly from Publisher." The only review of this book
posted by amazon says:
" For those who are interested in the history of Britain,
the Complete Peerage is a necessary reference. Unfortunately,
CP does not come up to the present day. Addenda & Corrigenda
brings the peer-by-peer history up to the present day, filling
in the gaps and allowing a continuity of study of particular
families and titles. A bit pricy, it is however a necessary
completion for anyone who uses the Complete Peerage."
This description, together with the title under which the
book is offered,is what leads me to believe that this is the
"elusive" Volume XIV.
<Censored> says of it:
"A set of CP without Volume XIV is like a woman with an
expensive dress and nowhere to go ---- or Talisker drunk
straight from the bottle, sans a glass to put it in."
But if the book offered by amazon is Volume XIV I have
to disagree. Except for the occasional "corregendum" it
sounds like it deals primarily if not exclusively with
20th century extensions of the families covered by the
first fourteen books (13 volumes), and would therefore
be of little if any use to medieval genealogical studies.
As for the Talisker, if you're going to drink it neat, and there
is no other way to do justice to a 90+ proof single malt scotch,
why bother with the glass?
D. Spencer Hines
| the CP series, is edited by Peter Hammond and is offered
[...]
El Pollo Loco [Bryant Smith], Costa Rica
---------------------------------
Correct. But "Corrigenda".
How curious that "Bronwen", our resident academic gadfly, could not find
it.
Appalling.
| "A set of CP without Volume XIV is like a woman with an
| expensive dress and nowhere to go ---- or Talisker drunk
| straight from the bottle, sans a glass to put it in."
D. Spencer Hines
-----------------------
| But if the book offered by amazon is Volume XIV I have
| to disagree. Except for the occasional "corregendum" [sic] it
| sounds like it deals primarily if not exclusively with
| 20th century extensions of the families covered by the
| first fourteen books (13 volumes), and would therefore
| be of little if any [sic] use to medieval genealogical studies.
El Pollo Loco, Costa Rica
---------------------------------------
Wrong. Do not make asinine, jejune assumptions.
Volume XIV covers all previous volumes, as WELL as updates through
1995 ---- and is quite essential.
CP without Volume XIV is like Laurel without Hardy or Bogart without
Bacall or New York City without Giuliani.
Volume XIV also has a priceless Introduction, which details how CP came
to be and its subsequent History. It also has a priceless portrait of
GEC.
John 5:14
Deus Vult.
William Addams Reitwiesner
>In message <3BD2C693...@swbell.net>
> "Dewayne E. Perry" <de-p...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Rosie Bevan wrote:
>
>> > For a second hand set www.bookfinder.com is a good source.There's a set
>> > going for $358 at the moment.
>> >
>
>>
>> welllll, except that this set is a really old one: 1887-98 in 8 vols and not
>> in very good shape at all.
>
>Wow. This is the First Edition, the one that Cokayne did himself! It
>is of historical importance even if the content is not as good as the
>Second Edition. I have only ever seen one other copy of the 1st edition
>myself.
A few years ago, I took a close look at a copy of the First Edition, and
compared it to the Second Edition. The text is pretty much the same for
most (certainly not all) of the articles, but the major enhancement of the
Second Edition is that it has many, many more footnotes.
William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com
Tim Powys-Lybbe
<re CP Vol XIV>
> I checked Heraldry Today's website and could not find the book there.
Heraldry Today are very good at getting books that are not on the
shelves. Anyhow they supplied me with Vol XIV. Send them an e-mail.