Vajay charts: Early Castile
Todd A. Farmerie
Vajay, Szabolcs de. Structures de Prouvoir et Reseaux de Familles
du VIIIe au XIIe Siecles. Genealogica & Heraldica: Actas de 17o
Congresso das Ciencias Genealogica e Heraldica. 275-315 (1986).
Having now located the misplaced chart of Early Castile, I can
provide a brief summary of what it says, and what it doesn't say.
The Origin of Sovereign Castile, (senior line)
1. Munio "Belchítez",
2. Nuño Múñez "Racura", Judge of Castille
3. Munio Núñez "of Brañosera" 924-842 (sic), _tenens_ in Liebana,
Judge of Castile
a. Nuño Múñoz "of Castrogeriz"
b. Diego Múñoz, (see below)
c. Gutina, heiress of the "salines comtales", m. Fernan
Gonzalez (see second family)
4. Nuño Múñoz "of Castrogeriz", 882-884
a. Munio Núñez "of Roa"
b. Muniadomna, m.1 Garcia I, King of Galicia, 910, +914, m.2
Fernan Ansurez, Count of Castile, 916-929
5. Munio Núñez "de Roa", 899-915, Count of Castile m. NN. dau. of
Gutierre and Elvira
a. Diego Múñoz
b. Hermengildo Múñoz, 936 (from whom come the Banu Mendez)
c. Mirel Múñoz, 936 (from whom come the Banu Mirel)
6. Diego Múñoz, 936-961, m. Tigridia Nuñez (see second family)
a. Gomez Díaz, 940-986, comte a Saldaña m. Muniadomna
Rernández (sic) (from whome come the Banu Gómez,
Saldaña and Ansúrez)
(junior line)
4. Diego Múñoz, son of Munio Nuñez "de Brañosera"
a. Flain Diaz le Chauve
5. Flain Diaz le Chauve "Laín Calvo" Judge of Castile m. Flamula
a. Munio Flaínez, 928-962, m. Froilueba Bermúdez (from whom
come the Flaginez and Cifuentes)
b. Fernando Flaínez
6. Fernando Flaínez, 953-995, Count in Salamanca, m. Gunteroda
a. Flain Fernández, 994-1007, m. Tigridia Díaz (from whom
come the Diaz de Vivar - "el Cid")
(second family)
A. Gonzalo 865 in La Bureba
a. Fernan González
B. Fernan González the Black, 866, "of Castrosierro" m. Gutina
Nuñez (see above), heiress of the "salinas comtal"
a. Gonzalo Fernández
b. Nuño Fernández "of Amaya", Count of Castile, 921-927
i. Tigridia Nuñez, m. Diego Muñoz (see above)
ii. Fernando Nuñez 968, "filius comitis"
C. Gonzalo Fernández, +932, Count in Burgos, Count of Castile,
910-916, m. Muniadomna Ramirez, "Countess", daughter of Ramiro of
Asturias and of Urraca bint Qasi
a. Fermán (sic) González +970, Count of Castile 932, first
Sovereign Count, m.1 Sancha of Navarre, dau. King
Sancho I Garces and widow of Ordoño II (sic) of
Leon, m.2 Urraca, dau. Garcia III Sanchez of
Navarre (remarried to William Sanchez, Duke of
Gascony). (from whom comes the later Counts)
b. Ramiro González, 929-933
Of this material he credits the work of Justo Pérez de Urbel,
complemented by the recent research of Jaime de Salazar Acha and
Dr. David E. Masnata, notably regarding the rectification of the
paternal lineage of the Sovereign Counts.
(Before everyone gets all excited about the muslim connection,
Dr. Salazar Acha has since determined that for chronological
reasons, Muniadomna could not possibly be daughter of Urraca bint
Qasi.)
So where does it all come from? Unfortunately, there is little
discussion, and what there is mostly involves the ramifications
of the connections, and not the basis for them. Still some
details are given and some guesses can be made.
The first line, of alternating Nuño and Munio, has long been
known, although the confusion of the names led to all being given
as Nuño Nuñez. The connection of Diego and Hermengildo (along
with another brother Osorio Muñoz) and the identification of
their mother as a sister of Hermengildo and Osorio Gutierrez
comes from:
Rodriquez Marquina, Javier. Las Salinas de Castilla en el Siglo
X, y la Genealogia de las Familias Condales. in Homenaje a Fray
Justo Perez de Urbel, OSB., 143-51 (1976).
while Mirel as brother of Hermengildo has appeared several places.
The descent of El Cid from Lain Calvo is a traditional pedigree.
The connection of the Flaginez lineage to that line, I have not
seen elsewhere, and cannot guess (nor is any hint given). The
descent of Lain Calvo from Muñio is again a novelty to me, and is
not explained.
As to the paternal line of the sovereign Counts, the "Fernando
Nuñez" (sic) who appears in most sources is a genealogical
construct, hypothesized to fall between Gonzalo Fernandez and
Nuño Nuñez (sic). No such man is found in the contemporary
record. There is, however, a Fernan(do) Gonzalez in the right
general area and time. He was known to the earlier authors, but
ignored as a connection to the Nuñez/Muñoz had to be explained.
Vajay reports that Fernan Gonzalez confirmed the grant dealing
with the salinas of Añeana made by his grandmother Gutina. The
share of the salinas suggests a connection to the Nuñez/Muñoz,
whose descendant Rodrigo Ermengildez held a portion (he was son
of Hermengildo Muñoz). Thus the simple conclusion is that it was
Gutina who was daughter of this family, and not her husband
(whose placement there requires invention of an undocumented
individual).
Finally, the placement of Tigridia as daughter of Count Nuño
Gonzalez is not explained, and I have not seen it elsewhere.
taf
Francisco Antonio Doria
Todd,
This is essentially the traditional line. You can find
it in the early 19th century Portuguese lineage book,
_Nobiliário de Famílias de Portugal_, by Felgueiras
Gayo, a first-approach to all of us (people check it,
but the standard stuff is in there).
When Maria Emma posted me about the Osórios - I'm
convinced that the elusive Monío Osores at Grijó in
1140 must be a bastard or disinherited son of Count
Osório Martínez - I noticed that the Flaín line
[traditionally] went up all the way to Nuno Belchiedes
- that's the way we spell his patronymic and Nuno
Rasura.
Best, chico
--- "Todd A. Farmerie" <farm...@interfold.com>
escreveu: > Several times I have mentioned the charts
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Todd A. Farmerie
> [traditionally] went up all the way to Nuno Belchiedes
> - that's the way we spell his patronymic and Nuno
> Rasura.
Yes - I used the spelling of Vajay for these, rather than the
standard spellings.
taf
Francisco Antonio Doria
Did Vajay misspell the names? Or was it intentional?
chico
Todd A. Farmerie
> --- "Todd A. Farmerie" <farm...@interfold.com>
> escreveu: > Francisco Antonio Doria wrote:
>
>>>[traditionally] went up all the way to Nuno
>>>
>>Belchiedes
>>
>>>- that's the way we spell his patronymic and Nuno
>>>Rasura.
>>>
>>Yes - I used the spelling of Vajay for these, rather
>>than the
>>standard spellings.
>
> Did Vajay misspell the names? Or was it intentional?
I have to assume it was intentional (Belchitez also appears in
the discussion), but whether it is due to the article being in
French or some other reason I cannot say.
Regarding Belchitez/Belchiedez is this really a patronymic? what
would be the paternal name form (or is it from a nickname)? I
ask because I am familiar with Sancho Garces Mazeratiz, where, in
spite of its apparent similarity, the latter is a transliteration
of a Basque adjective, and not a patronymic.
taf
Francisco Antonio Doria
Frankly, I can't answer you. Nuño, Munío, are Basque
names; these people come from near Castro Jerez, or
seem to - they are the traditional origin of the
Castro family, now corrected by Salazar Acha.
I see no German (Visigothic) name from which
Belchiedes can be derived. So, good idea, I'll look
for a Basque esquivalent. Give me some time, and I'll
go back to you.
chico
_______________________________________________________________________
Nathaniel Taylor
dori...@yahoo.com.br (Francisco Antonio Doria) wrote:
>> >>>[traditionally] went up all the way to Nuno Belchiedes
>> >>>- that's the way we spell his patronymic and Nuno Rasura.
>> >>>
>> >>Yes - I used the spelling of Vajay for these,
>> >>rather than the standard spellings.
>> >
>> > Did Vajay misspell the names? Or was it intentional?
>>
>> I have to assume it was intentional (Belchitez also
>> appears in
>> the discussion), but whether it is due to the
>> article being in
>> French or some other reason I cannot say.
>>
>> Regarding Belchitez/Belchiedez is this really a
>> patronymic? what
>> would be the paternal name form (or is it from a
>> nickname)? I
>> ask because I am familiar with Sancho Garces
>> Mazeratiz, where, in
>> spite of its apparent similarity, the latter is a
>> transliteration
>> of a Basque adjective, and not a patronymic.
>
>Frankly, I can't answer you. Nuño, Munío, are Basque
>names; these people come from near Castro Jerez, or
>seem to - they are the traditional origin of the
>Castro family, now corrected by Salazar Acha.
>
>I see no German (Visigothic) name from which
>Belchiedes can be derived. So, good idea, I'll look
>for a Basque esquivalent. Give me some time, and I'll
>go back to you.
Is there any relation to the name of the Confraternity of Belchite,
established in 1122 by Alfonso the Battler of Aragón? I assumed it was
a toponym.
Nat Taylor
Francisco Antonio Doria
Might be. Tell me more about it, please.
chico
--- Nathaniel Taylor <nta...@post.harvard.edu>
escreveu: > In article
_______________________________________________________________________
Nathaniel Taylor
>Might be. Tell me more about it, please.
This was a single garrison of religious knights in the castle of
Belchite, only a few km S. of Zaragoza (S. of the Ebro); established
just after after the reconquest and settlement of Zaragoza in 1118-1119;
the commandery was subsumed by the Knights Templar soon (in Alfonso's
reign? not sure). So it's a toponym, but the Castilian figure you're
discussing surely derives his name from another place further west and
north. I don't have any documents handy that show 12th c. forms of the
name, or Gazetteers of early Castile.
Nat Taylor
Todd A. Farmerie
> So it's a toponym, but the Castilian figure you're
> discussing surely derives his name from another place further west and
> north.
I don't know that this need be the case. The tradition (as
recorded by D. Pedro, and quoted from Gayo in Chico's post) is
that he came from outside of Spain, but perhaps he was just from
outside Castile.
taf
Francisco Antonio Doria
My procedure wrt Conde D. Pedro is that the name of
the first ancestor is (usually) correct, but the
legend that surrounds it is a later concoction,
usually far from truth.
A few examples: the Baião family. We have a historical
Arualdo Gondesendes, very likely from the family of
the Counts of Lugo. Arualdo is an unusual name; come
from Arn + walt; the legend says that D. Arnaldo de
Baião was descended from Charlemagne...
Mendo, ancestor of the Trastâmaras, said in legend to
be the brother of Desidério, last Lombard king, is -
most likely - Hermenegildo Guterres, from Coimbra.
So I take that his name was something like Nuño
Belchiedes or Belchites, but that the German origin is
pure fable.
(This approach, I've noticed, is also followed by
Salazar Acha in his ``Castro'' paper.)
chico
--- "Todd A. Farmerie" <farm...@interfold.com>
_______________________________________________________________________
Francisco Antonio Doria
Maria Emma, are you listening?
;-)))
What's your opinion? Manoel Cesar Furtado, do you have
any documents on these people?
chico
_______________________________________________________________________
Manoel Cesar Furtado
1. "Primera Crónica General de España"
"...Pero dize don Lucas de Tuy que aquellos que tomaram por juyzes, que eran
muy fijos dalgo et de alto linnage. Et ell uno auie nombre Nunno Rasuera,
fijo de Nunno Bellidez; et dize don Lucas de Tuy que este Nunno Bellidez que
fuera natural de Catalonna. Et all otro juyz dizien Layn Caluo, natural de
Burgos..."
2. "Livro de Linhagens" by Count D. Pedro
"Tit. III - Dos Alcaydes que os de Castella fizerom para os guardarem em
justiça, de que decenderom os Reys de Castella,...
...os quaes juizes forão Nuno Razura, filho de Nuno Belchides, e Lain Calvo.
(A comment from the 1640 edition: Nuño Belchides fue hidalgo Castellano y
casó com D. Sula, o Bella, hija del Conde D. Diego Porcelos, que pobló a
Burgos)"
Um abraço,
Manoel César Furtado
Francisco Antonio Doria
Thanks as usual, Manoel Cesar. Now: I can understand
why Vasjay places Laín Calvo in the line of the Nunos
and Muníos, but - why the son of Diogo?
fa
--- Manoel Cesar Furtado <mcfu...@netsite.com.br>
escreveu: > Francisco, the most ancient sources I have
Todd A. Farmerie
> 2. "Livro de Linhagens" by Count D. Pedro
> "Tit. III - Dos Alcaydes que os de Castella fizerom para os guardarem em
> justiça, de que decenderom os Reys de Castella,...
> ...os quaes juizes forão Nuno Razura, filho de Nuno Belchides, e Lain Calvo.
> (A comment from the 1640 edition: Nuño Belchides fue hidalgo Castellano y
> casó com D. Sula, o Bella, hija del Conde D. Diego Porcelos, que pobló a
> Burgos)"
Can this marriage be traced any earlier than this 1640 date?
taf