Alice de Senlis (d. 1204)
Cristopher Nash
in CP (VI, 671) to be the w. of Roger de Huntingfield (both given as
d. 1204)? A wild surmise links her vaguely in my mind with the fam.
if not the line of Simon de St Liz III (d. s.p.s. 1184) and his w.
Alice de Gand, but I'm never too happy in the wilderness.
Cris
--
Douglas Richardson
Thank you for your good post.
In answer to your question regarding Alice de Senlis, wife of Roger de
Huntingfield, it appears that Alice was a hitherto unnoticed daughter
of Saher de Quincy, by his wife, Maud de Senlis. Alice evidently
adopted her mother's maiden name, a practice common among high born
women in this period. The evidence of Alice's identity consists of
the passage of the manor of East Bradenham, Norfolk, from Saher de
Quincy to the Huntingfield family. This manor was evidently Alice's
maritagium. As for further evidence of Alice's identity, we have
another piece of evidence. Alice's husband, Roger de Huntingfield,
was present with a later Saher de Quincy in 1200, when William the
Lion, King of Scotland, paid homage to King John at Lincoln
[Reference: William Stubbs, ed., Chronica Magistri Rogeri de Houedene,
4 (Rolls Ser., vol. 51, no. 4), pp.141-142. Roger de Huntingfield's
wife, Alice de Senlis, and Saher de Quincy would both have been near
kinsfolk to William the Lion. Also, present at this occasion were
Roger Bigod, Earl of Norfolk (husband of Countess Ida), and Countess
Ida's son, William Longespee, also surely near kinsfolk to William the
Lion, King of Scotland.
Alice de Senlis would possess royal ancestry through her descent from
Countess Judith, niece of William the Conqueror.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
c...@windsong.u-net.com (Cristopher Nash) wrote in message news:<a05100300ba2434678ee7@[10.0.1.3]>...
Cristopher Nash
>it appears that Alice was a hitherto unnoticed daughter of Saher de
>Quincy, by his wife, Maud de Senlis.
[etc]
Many thanks, Douglas, for your generous and thoughtful comments on
this, and for data that for me is fresh and extremely suggestive.
I'll want to follow it up as soon as I've the chance, and look
forward to any further news as it comes your way.
Best luck,
Cris
--
The...@aol.com
Dear Douglas, Cris, et al.,
Having just read the original post via Google (again,
some messages appear via email, some don't) I wanted to
thank you for the extremely good post concerning Alice's
identification. Given this relationship, we now have the
descent given below from Robert, duke of Normandy via
Huntingfield and Basset of Weldon.
This impacts the ancestry of a good many individuals,
including that of the GARD Jane Lowe and other descendants
of the Knyvett and Thwaites families.
Keep up the good work!
John *
____________________
1 Robert of Normandy
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 4 Jul 1035, Nicaea [en route to Normandy][1]
Occ: Duke of Normandy 1027-1035
Father: Richard II of Normandy (0978-1026)
Mother: Judith of Rennes (-1017)
Spouse: Arletta (Herleve ?) of Falaise
Children: William 'the Conqueror' (ca1027-1087)
Adelaide (-<1090)
1.1a Adelaide of Normandy*
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 1090[2]
illegitimate, sister of William 'the Conqueror'[2]
as 'Countess of Aumale' [comitissa de Albamarla] in
Domesday Book, held manors in Essex and Suffolk, 1086[2]
she m. lstly Enguerrand of Ponthieu;
2ndly Lambert of Lens;
3rdly Eudes of Champagne
Spouse: Lambert of Lens
Death: 1054[2]
Father: Eustace I of Boulogne (-1047)
Mother: Matilda of Louvain
Marr: ca 1053
Children: Judith (ca1054-)
Other Spouses Enguerrand II of Ponthieu, Eudes of Champagne
1.1a.1 Judith of Lens
----------------------------------------
Birth: ca 1054[2]
held manor of Walthamstow, Essex (received from Waltheof) at
Domesday Book, 1086 (CP, Vol XII -Tony, p 762 and 762n)[2]
Spouse: Waltheof II of Northumberland
Death: 31 May 1076, St. Gile's Hill, Winchester (executed)[2]
Father: Siward 'the Dane' of Northumbria (-1055)
Mother: Elfleda of Northumbria
Marr: 1070[2]
Children: Matilda (-ca1131)
Alice
1.1a.1.1a Matilda of Northumberland*
----------------------------------------
Death: ca 1131[2]
heiress of Earldoms of Huntingdon and Northampton;
m. 1stly Simon de St. Liz[2]
Spouse: David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon dju - 2nd
husband
Birth: abt 1080
Death: 24 May 1153, Carlisle[2]
Father: Malcolm III 'Ceann-Mor' of Scotland (~1031-1093)
Mother: St. Margaret of England (1046-1093)
Marr: 1113[2]
Children: Henry (~1115-1152)
Other Spouses Simon de St. Liz
1.1a.1.1b Matilda of Northumberland* (See above)
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Simon de St. Liz - First Husband
Death: ca 1112, France (on pilgrimage)[2]
Children: Simon II (>1090-1153), Earl of Huntingdon
Waltheof (-1159)
Maud (-1140)
Other Spouses David of Scotland
1.1a.1.1b.1a Maud de St. Liz*[3]
----------------------------------------
Death: 1140[3]
heiress of manor of Eynesbury, co. Huntingdon[2]
she m. lstly Robert de Clare;
2ndly Saier de Quincy
Spouse: Robert de Clare
Death: 1134[3]
Father: Richard fitz Gilbert de Clare (-ca1090)
Mother: Rohese de Giffard
Children: Maud
Walter (-1198)
Other Spouses Saier I de Quincy
1.1a.1.1b.1b Maud de St. Liz* (See above)
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Saier I de Quincy
Death: ca 1157[2]
Marr: aft 1136[2]
Children: Saier II (-1190)
Robert (-<1198)
Alice
Other Spouses Robert de Clare
1.1a.1.1b.1b.1 Alice de Senlis
----------------------------------------
identified by Douglas Richardson as
'...a hitherto unnoticed daughter of Saher de Quincy, by
his wife, Maud de Senlis. Alice evidently
adopted her mother's maiden name, a practice common
among high born women in this period. The evidence
of Alice's identity consists of the passage of the manor
of East Bradenham, Norfolk, from Saher de Quincy to
the Huntingfield family. This manor was evidently
Alice's maritagium. '[4]
Spouse: Roger de Huntingfield
Death: 1204[5]
Children: William (-<1220)
1.1a.1.1b.1b.1.1 William de Huntingfield
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 25 Jan 1220[3]
of Frampton and Huntingfield, Suffolk
Warden of the Cinque Ports, sheriff of Norfolk and
Suffolk 1210-1212
Surety of the Magna Carta [3]
Spouse: Isabel fitz Roger
Death: 1209[3]
Father: William fitz Roger, of Gressenhall
Marr: bef 1194[3]
Children: Sir Roger (-<1257)
1.1a.1.1b.1b.1.1.1 Sir Roger de Huntingfield
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 11 Jul 1257[3]
of Huntingfield, co. Suffolk[3]
Spouse: Joan de Hobrugg
Death: bef 8 Sep 1297[3]
Father: William de Hobrugg
Mother: Agnes de Picot
Marr: 1236[5]
Children: Sir William (1237-<1290)
1.1a.1.1b.1b.1.1.1.1 Sir William de Huntingfield
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 2 Nov 1290[5]
Birth: 24 Aug 1237[5]
of Huntingfield, co. Suffolk[3]
Spouse: Emma de Grey
Father: Sir John de Grey (-<1265)
Mother: Emma de Glanville
Children: Sir Roger (-<1302)
1.1a.1.1b.1b.1.1.1.1.1 Sir Roger de Huntingfield
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 5 Dec 1302[3]
of Huntingfield and Frampton, co. Suffolk[3]
Spouse: Joyce Engaine
Death: aft 6 Mar 1302
Father: Sir John Engaine (-1296)
Mother: Joan de Greinville (->1305)
Marr: ca 1277[5]
Children: Joan
1.1a.1.1b.1b.1.1.1.1.1.1 Joan de Huntingfield
----------------------------------------
Spouse: Sir Richard Basset
Death: bef 18 Aug 1314[3]
Birth: ca 1273[5]
Father: Ralph Basset (-<1291)
Mother: Alianore de la Wade
Children: Sir Ralph (1300-<1341)
1.1a.1.1b.1b.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Sir Ralph Basset
----------------------------------------
Birth: 27 Aug 1300[5]
Death: bef 4 May 1341[3]
of Great Weldon, co. Northants[3]
Spouse: Joan
Children: Joan, wife of Thomas de Aylesbury
Alianore, wife of Sir John Knyvett
1. "William the Conqueror," David C. Douglas, Univ of California
Press, 1964 (1st of English Monarchs series).
2. "The Complete Peerage," G. E. Cokayne, 1910 - [microprint,
1982 (Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland
Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
3. "The Magna Carta Sureties, 1215," Frederick L. Weis, Th. D.,
Gen Pub Co., Baltimore, MD, 5th ed., 1997 (W. L. Sheppard Jr &
David Faris).
4. Douglas Richardson, "Identity of Alice de Senlis, wife of Roger
de Huntingfield," December 16, 2002, GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
(paper copy: library of John Ravilious.
5. "Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists," Frederick L.
Weis, Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, 7th edition.
6. Paul Theroff, "The House of Champagne-Blois," Paul Theroff's
Dynastic Genealogy Files, worldroots.clicktron.com/brigitte/theroff/.
_________________
* John P. Ravilious