Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
C.P. Correction: Mary Douglas, wife of David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay, and Sir Walter de Haliburton
223 views
Skip to first unread message
celticp...@gmail.com
Aug 16, 2018, 8:00:36 PM8/16/18
to
Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage 4 (1916): 383 (sub Dirletoun) and 11 (1949): 208 (sub Rothesay) indicates that David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (died 1402), the ill fated son and heir apparent of King Robert III of Scotland, married in 1400 Marjory, 1st daughter of Archibald Douglas (nicknamed the Grim), Earl of Douglas, by Joan, daughter and heiress of Thomas Moray, of Bothwell. Following his premature death, his widow, Marjory Douglas, allegedly married (2nd) in 1403 Sir Walter de Haliburton the younger, of Dirletoun, Berwickshire, and died in 1421, before 11 May.
Here is the documentation cited by Complete Peerage for this information:
Nothing.
While it is true that David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay, married a daughter of Earl Archibald Douglas, it appears that her given name was Mary, not Marjory. Her correct given name was noted long ago by the esteemed Scottish historian, George Burnett, in his excellent series, Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, volume 4 (1880).
On page clxxi, Mr. Burnett specifically states that she "is called Mary, not Marjory, by Buchanan, and also in the Exchequer Rolls, vol. iii. pages 566, 594, 620; vol. iv. page 343. By a clerical slip she is called Elizabeth in the ‘Rotuli Scotiae,’ ii, p. 197.” END OF QUOTE.
On this same page clxxi, Burnett affirms that Mary Douglas married (2nd) in 1403 Walter of Haliburton and that she died about 1420.
In the same volume, page 343, he provides a transcript of one of the aforementioned records which refers to her given name as Mary:
Sub 1421: “Et quondam domine Marie ducisse Rothesaie, que percipere consuevit centum libras annuatim de custuma dicta burgi, in plenam solucionem termini Pentecostes, post quem terminum decessit, l li., que pension jam cessat.”). END OF QUOTE.
It is curious that this mistake should ever have been made. The author of Complete Peerage was evidently aware of its counterpart account in Scots Peerage 4 (1907): 333–335 (sub Haliburton), where Sir Walter de Haliburton's wife is called Mary, not Marjory, Douglas. The editor of Scots Peerage even cited Burnett's comments copied above as his source. Had Complete Peerage followed up on the reference to Burnett's comments, presumably this error would have been avoided.
In summary, it appears that David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay, married Mary, not Marjory, Douglas. Following his death in 1402, Mary married (2nd) in 1403 Sir Walter de Haliburton, of Dirleton, Berwickshire. Mary, Duchess of Rothesay, died about 1420.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Complete Peerage 4 (1916): 383 (sub Dirletoun) and 11 (1949): 208 (sub Rothesay) indicates that David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (died 1402), the ill fated son and heir apparent of King Robert III of Scotland, married in 1400 Marjory, 1st daughter of Archibald Douglas (nicknamed the Grim), Earl of Douglas, by Joan, daughter and heiress of Thomas Moray, of Bothwell. Following his premature death, his widow, Marjory Douglas, allegedly married (2nd) in 1403 Sir Walter de Haliburton the younger, of Dirletoun, Berwickshire, and died in 1421, before 11 May.
Here is the documentation cited by Complete Peerage for this information:
Nothing.
While it is true that David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay, married a daughter of Earl Archibald Douglas, it appears that her given name was Mary, not Marjory. Her correct given name was noted long ago by the esteemed Scottish historian, George Burnett, in his excellent series, Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, volume 4 (1880).
On page clxxi, Mr. Burnett specifically states that she "is called Mary, not Marjory, by Buchanan, and also in the Exchequer Rolls, vol. iii. pages 566, 594, 620; vol. iv. page 343. By a clerical slip she is called Elizabeth in the ‘Rotuli Scotiae,’ ii, p. 197.” END OF QUOTE.
On this same page clxxi, Burnett affirms that Mary Douglas married (2nd) in 1403 Walter of Haliburton and that she died about 1420.
In the same volume, page 343, he provides a transcript of one of the aforementioned records which refers to her given name as Mary:
Sub 1421: “Et quondam domine Marie ducisse Rothesaie, que percipere consuevit centum libras annuatim de custuma dicta burgi, in plenam solucionem termini Pentecostes, post quem terminum decessit, l li., que pension jam cessat.”). END OF QUOTE.
It is curious that this mistake should ever have been made. The author of Complete Peerage was evidently aware of its counterpart account in Scots Peerage 4 (1907): 333–335 (sub Haliburton), where Sir Walter de Haliburton's wife is called Mary, not Marjory, Douglas. The editor of Scots Peerage even cited Burnett's comments copied above as his source. Had Complete Peerage followed up on the reference to Burnett's comments, presumably this error would have been avoided.
In summary, it appears that David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay, married Mary, not Marjory, Douglas. Following his death in 1402, Mary married (2nd) in 1403 Sir Walter de Haliburton, of Dirleton, Berwickshire. Mary, Duchess of Rothesay, died about 1420.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
celticp...@gmail.com
Aug 17, 2018, 5:38:38 PM8/17/18
to
Dear Newsgroup ~
After I made my post yesterday regarding Mary Douglas, Duchess of Rothesay, the daughter-in-law of King Robert III of Scotland, I surveyed many published secondary sources regarding Scottish royal and noble families, all of whom with two exceptions referred to this woman as Marjory Douglas. This includes the recent work published in 2006 by the historian, Bruce McAndrew, entitled "Scotland's Historic Heraldry."
As to what sources actually refer to her as Mary Douglas, the first source I found was Drummond, Genealogy of the Most Noble and Ancient House of Drummond (1831): 77, which reads as follows:
“David the Prince and Duke of Rothsay : He married Marie or Marjorie Douglas daughter of Archbald the Grim, third Earle of Douglas.” END OF QUOTE.
As we can see, the above source refers to her as both Mary and Marjory Douglas.
As to the second source which refers to her as Mary Douglas, it is surprisingly found in "Additional Corrigenda, etc." published in 1898 in Volume 8 of an earlier edition of Complete Peerage.
On page 534, the following information is provided:
"In his preface to vol. iv of the Exchequer Rolls (p. clxxi) the late G. Burnett, Lyon King of Arms, calls attention to a Walter de Haliburton, who married Lady Mary Douglas, widow of David, Duke of Rothesay [d. 26 March 1402], and gives it as his opinion that this Walter was the son to the Walter of Dirletoun, with whom the article in the present work begins. Walter de Haliburton, husband to the Duchess of Rothesay, drew her pension from the customs of Edinburgh and Linlithgow from 1404 to 1421, in which year - at Pentecost - she was dead. It is therefore possible that Walter the Hostage and the Treasurer was the widower and the elder brother of John, but it is clear from the Charters relating to the annuity from Tranent, that John, Lord Halyburton of Dirletoun, 1446/7, was son of the Walter de Halyburton, who married Isabel, Countess of Ross, dau. of the Duke of Albany. Whether the two Walters were father and son, or what relationship they bore to each other, is matter of considerable doubt. [Ex. Inform. W.A. Lindsay, Q.C., Windsor Herald.]." END OF QUOTE
We see above that the editor of Complete Peerage was informed by Mr. Lindsay before 1898, as to the correct given name of Mary Douglas, Duchess of Rothesay. Yet by 1916, this correction was forgotten and Duchess Mary was called Marjory in the next edition of Complete Peerage published in that year.
It is strange indeed that Mr. Burnett's original observations as to the correct name of Mary Douglas should be included in a volume of Complete Peerage published in 1898, and yet forgotten in the next edition of Complete Peerage published in 1916. But that is apparently what happened.
Mr. Lindsay correctly notes that there were two Walter de Haliburton's living at the same time, one of whom married Mary Douglas, Duchess of Rothesay, and the other who married Isabel Stewart, Countess of Ross, daughter of Robert Stewart, Duke of Albany. It is sometimes asserted that Walter, husband of Mary, was the son of the Walter, husband of Isabel. This could well be true.
Mr. Lindsay, however, implies that this is doubtful. Mr. Lindsay then states that John de Haliburton, 1st Lord Haliburton, in the next generation was the son of Walter, husband of Countess Isabel. Yet Scots Peerage and Complete Peerage both assign John as the son of Walter, husband of Duchess Mary. Without considerable more research, it is impossible to tell which Walter was the father of John in the next generation. Hopefully someone with better particulars can address this question.
One last comment. As I noted in my earlier post, Mr. Burnett stated in 1880 that Mary Douglas, Duchess of Rothesay, was called "Elizabeth" in a clerical slip in the ‘Rotuli Scotiae,’ ii, p. 197.” The actual record is published in Rotuli Scotiae in Turri Londinensi 2 (1819): 197, and may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=ay1KAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA197
The above record is a safe conduct granted in 1411 by King Henry IV of England to Elizabeth, Duchess of Rothesay, whom he styles his "kinswoman" [consanguineam].
King Henry IV of England and Mary, Duchess of Rothesay, were in fact 4th cousins to one another, by virtue of their common descent from Sir Alexander Comyn, Earl of Buchan (died 1290). This acknowledged kinship provides additional evidence that Duchess Mary's mother, Joan of Moray, was in fact the daughter and heiress of Maurice of Moray, Earl of Strathearn (a Comyn descendant), as I indicated in an earlier thread here on the newsgroup.
After I made my post yesterday regarding Mary Douglas, Duchess of Rothesay, the daughter-in-law of King Robert III of Scotland, I surveyed many published secondary sources regarding Scottish royal and noble families, all of whom with two exceptions referred to this woman as Marjory Douglas. This includes the recent work published in 2006 by the historian, Bruce McAndrew, entitled "Scotland's Historic Heraldry."
As to what sources actually refer to her as Mary Douglas, the first source I found was Drummond, Genealogy of the Most Noble and Ancient House of Drummond (1831): 77, which reads as follows:
“David the Prince and Duke of Rothsay : He married Marie or Marjorie Douglas daughter of Archbald the Grim, third Earle of Douglas.” END OF QUOTE.
As we can see, the above source refers to her as both Mary and Marjory Douglas.
As to the second source which refers to her as Mary Douglas, it is surprisingly found in "Additional Corrigenda, etc." published in 1898 in Volume 8 of an earlier edition of Complete Peerage.
On page 534, the following information is provided:
"In his preface to vol. iv of the Exchequer Rolls (p. clxxi) the late G. Burnett, Lyon King of Arms, calls attention to a Walter de Haliburton, who married Lady Mary Douglas, widow of David, Duke of Rothesay [d. 26 March 1402], and gives it as his opinion that this Walter was the son to the Walter of Dirletoun, with whom the article in the present work begins. Walter de Haliburton, husband to the Duchess of Rothesay, drew her pension from the customs of Edinburgh and Linlithgow from 1404 to 1421, in which year - at Pentecost - she was dead. It is therefore possible that Walter the Hostage and the Treasurer was the widower and the elder brother of John, but it is clear from the Charters relating to the annuity from Tranent, that John, Lord Halyburton of Dirletoun, 1446/7, was son of the Walter de Halyburton, who married Isabel, Countess of Ross, dau. of the Duke of Albany. Whether the two Walters were father and son, or what relationship they bore to each other, is matter of considerable doubt. [Ex. Inform. W.A. Lindsay, Q.C., Windsor Herald.]." END OF QUOTE
We see above that the editor of Complete Peerage was informed by Mr. Lindsay before 1898, as to the correct given name of Mary Douglas, Duchess of Rothesay. Yet by 1916, this correction was forgotten and Duchess Mary was called Marjory in the next edition of Complete Peerage published in that year.
It is strange indeed that Mr. Burnett's original observations as to the correct name of Mary Douglas should be included in a volume of Complete Peerage published in 1898, and yet forgotten in the next edition of Complete Peerage published in 1916. But that is apparently what happened.
Mr. Lindsay correctly notes that there were two Walter de Haliburton's living at the same time, one of whom married Mary Douglas, Duchess of Rothesay, and the other who married Isabel Stewart, Countess of Ross, daughter of Robert Stewart, Duke of Albany. It is sometimes asserted that Walter, husband of Mary, was the son of the Walter, husband of Isabel. This could well be true.
Mr. Lindsay, however, implies that this is doubtful. Mr. Lindsay then states that John de Haliburton, 1st Lord Haliburton, in the next generation was the son of Walter, husband of Countess Isabel. Yet Scots Peerage and Complete Peerage both assign John as the son of Walter, husband of Duchess Mary. Without considerable more research, it is impossible to tell which Walter was the father of John in the next generation. Hopefully someone with better particulars can address this question.
One last comment. As I noted in my earlier post, Mr. Burnett stated in 1880 that Mary Douglas, Duchess of Rothesay, was called "Elizabeth" in a clerical slip in the ‘Rotuli Scotiae,’ ii, p. 197.” The actual record is published in Rotuli Scotiae in Turri Londinensi 2 (1819): 197, and may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=ay1KAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA197
The above record is a safe conduct granted in 1411 by King Henry IV of England to Elizabeth, Duchess of Rothesay, whom he styles his "kinswoman" [consanguineam].
King Henry IV of England and Mary, Duchess of Rothesay, were in fact 4th cousins to one another, by virtue of their common descent from Sir Alexander Comyn, Earl of Buchan (died 1290). This acknowledged kinship provides additional evidence that Duchess Mary's mother, Joan of Moray, was in fact the daughter and heiress of Maurice of Moray, Earl of Strathearn (a Comyn descendant), as I indicated in an earlier thread here on the newsgroup.
Adrian Channing
Aug 18, 2018, 6:09:43 AM8/18/18
to
On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 1:00:36 AM UTC+1, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> Complete Peerage 4 (1916): 383 (sub Dirletoun) and 11 (1949): 208 (sub Rothesay) indicates that David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (died 1402), the ill fated son and heir apparent of King Robert III of Scotland, married in 1400 Marjory, 1st daughter of Archibald Douglas (nicknamed the Grim), Earl of Douglas, by Joan, daughter and heiress of Thomas Moray, of Bothwell. Following his premature death, his widow, Marjory Douglas, allegedly married (2nd) in 1403 Sir Walter de Haliburton the younger, of Dirletoun, Berwickshire, and died in 1421, before 11 May.
>
<snip>
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> Complete Peerage 4 (1916): 383 (sub Dirletoun) and 11 (1949): 208 (sub Rothesay) indicates that David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (died 1402), the ill fated son and heir apparent of King Robert III of Scotland, married in 1400 Marjory, 1st daughter of Archibald Douglas (nicknamed the Grim), Earl of Douglas, by Joan, daughter and heiress of Thomas Moray, of Bothwell. Following his premature death, his widow, Marjory Douglas, allegedly married (2nd) in 1403 Sir Walter de Haliburton the younger, of Dirletoun, Berwickshire, and died in 1421, before 11 May.
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
C.P. Vo; 14 states that Joan was only child and h. of Maurice (MORAY), EARL OF STRATHEARN [S.] [See C.P. vol. iv, p. 433, sub DOUGLAS; Scots Peerage, vol. iii, p. 162.]
celticp...@gmail.com
Aug 22, 2018, 1:51:40 AM8/22/18
to
Dear Newsgroup ~
In my previous post, I noted that George Burnett stated in 1880 that Mary Douglas, Duchess of Rothesay, was called "Elizabeth" in a clerical slip in the ‘Rotuli Scotiae,’ ii, p. 197.” The record in question is published in Rotuli Scotiae in Turri Londinensi 2 (1819): 197, and may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=ay1KAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA197
The above record is a safe conduct granted in 1411 by King Henry IV of England to Elizabeth, Duchess of Rothesay, whom he styles his "kinswoman" [consanguineam].
Mr. Burnett was of the opinion that this record refers to Mary de Douglas, 2nd surviving wife of David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay. Since there is no reason for Mary de Douglas to have been in England in 1411, it would appear that this record actually refers to David Stewart's 1st repudiated wife, Elizabeth de Dunbar, the daughter of George de Dunbar, Earl of March. As shown below, Elizabeth de Dunbar became prioress of the hospital of St. Leonard near Perth in late 1411. I assume her visit to England in June 1411 had something to do with this impending change in her life. King Henry IV's acknowledgement of Elizabeth as "Duchess of Rothesay" is doubtless due to his friendship with her father who left Scotland for England following David Stewart's repudiation of his daughter.
King Henry IV of England and Elizabeth de Dunbar were near related to one another by virtue of their common descent from Sir Alexander Comyn, Earl of Buchan (died 1290). For interest's sake, I've copied below my current file account of Elizabeth de Dunbar showing the details of her lawful marriage to David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay, and her subsequent life after he repudiated her.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + +
DAVID STEWART, Earl of Carrick and Atholl, son and heir apparent, born 24 October 1378. On or soon after his father’s succession to the throne 19 April 1390, he was recognized as Earl of Carrick. He married (1st) by dispensation dated 28 August 1395 (they being related in the 3rd degree of consanguinity, they having contracted espousals per verba de futuro) ELIZABETH DE DUNBAR, daughter of George de Dunbar, Knt., 10th Earl of March, Lord of Man and Annandale, by his wife, Christian Wardlaw. They had a second dispensation after marriage dated 11 March 1396/7, they having married without banns, copula subsecuta. They had no isuee. He was created Duke of Rothesay 28 April 1398, and Earl of Atholl 6 Sept. 1398. He repudiated his wife, Elizabeth, about 1400.
David Stewart's repudiated wife, Elizabeth de Dunbar, is known to have later held lands in Mordington, Berwickshire. In 1411, as “Elizabeth, Duchess of Rothesay,” she was granted a safe conduct to come to England by King Henry IV of England, who styled her his “kinswoman” [see Rotuli Scotiæ in Turri Londinensi 2 (1819): 197]. The two were in fact 4th cousins once removed to each other by virtue of their common descent from Sir Alexander Comyn, Earl of Buchan [died 1290]. On 23 November 1411 Robert Clerkson, Master of the Hospital of St. Leonard near Perth resigned his rights to the “honourable Lady Elizabeth Dunbar,” so that she may be governor of the hospital [see National Recs. of Scotland, GD79/4/79]. Elizabeth subsequently served as Prioress until 24 April 1438, when she resigned all her right to the hospital into the hands of Bishop Henry Wardlaw, in favor of the Prior and brethren of the Charterhouse of the Value of Virtue beside Perth [see National Records of Scotland, GD79/2/6; Scots Peerage 3 (1906): 275–276, 279 (sub Dunbar, Earl of Dunbar); Ewan et al. Biographical Dict. of Scottish Women (2006): 105 (biog. of Elizabeth Dunbar)]. Her date of death is unknown.
In my previous post, I noted that George Burnett stated in 1880 that Mary Douglas, Duchess of Rothesay, was called "Elizabeth" in a clerical slip in the ‘Rotuli Scotiae,’ ii, p. 197.” The record in question is published in Rotuli Scotiae in Turri Londinensi 2 (1819): 197, and may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=ay1KAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA197
The above record is a safe conduct granted in 1411 by King Henry IV of England to Elizabeth, Duchess of Rothesay, whom he styles his "kinswoman" [consanguineam].
King Henry IV of England and Elizabeth de Dunbar were near related to one another by virtue of their common descent from Sir Alexander Comyn, Earl of Buchan (died 1290). For interest's sake, I've copied below my current file account of Elizabeth de Dunbar showing the details of her lawful marriage to David Stewart, Duke of Rothesay, and her subsequent life after he repudiated her.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
DAVID STEWART, Earl of Carrick and Atholl, son and heir apparent, born 24 October 1378. On or soon after his father’s succession to the throne 19 April 1390, he was recognized as Earl of Carrick. He married (1st) by dispensation dated 28 August 1395 (they being related in the 3rd degree of consanguinity, they having contracted espousals per verba de futuro) ELIZABETH DE DUNBAR, daughter of George de Dunbar, Knt., 10th Earl of March, Lord of Man and Annandale, by his wife, Christian Wardlaw. They had a second dispensation after marriage dated 11 March 1396/7, they having married without banns, copula subsecuta. They had no isuee. He was created Duke of Rothesay 28 April 1398, and Earl of Atholl 6 Sept. 1398. He repudiated his wife, Elizabeth, about 1400.
David Stewart's repudiated wife, Elizabeth de Dunbar, is known to have later held lands in Mordington, Berwickshire. In 1411, as “Elizabeth, Duchess of Rothesay,” she was granted a safe conduct to come to England by King Henry IV of England, who styled her his “kinswoman” [see Rotuli Scotiæ in Turri Londinensi 2 (1819): 197]. The two were in fact 4th cousins once removed to each other by virtue of their common descent from Sir Alexander Comyn, Earl of Buchan [died 1290]. On 23 November 1411 Robert Clerkson, Master of the Hospital of St. Leonard near Perth resigned his rights to the “honourable Lady Elizabeth Dunbar,” so that she may be governor of the hospital [see National Recs. of Scotland, GD79/4/79]. Elizabeth subsequently served as Prioress until 24 April 1438, when she resigned all her right to the hospital into the hands of Bishop Henry Wardlaw, in favor of the Prior and brethren of the Charterhouse of the Value of Virtue beside Perth [see National Records of Scotland, GD79/2/6; Scots Peerage 3 (1906): 275–276, 279 (sub Dunbar, Earl of Dunbar); Ewan et al. Biographical Dict. of Scottish Women (2006): 105 (biog. of Elizabeth Dunbar)]. Her date of death is unknown.
0 new messages