Re: King's Kinsfolk: King John's kinsfolk [Revised Post]
Douglas Richardson
The historian, Sidney Painter, has described King John of England (died
1216) as "... cruel, lecherous, and deceitful... his mind was always
seething with jealousy and suspicion." [Reference: Painter, Reign of
King John (1949): 238]. For interest's sake, I've listed below seven
instances of acknowledged kinship involving the infamous King John.
Of the parties involved in these references, I've been able to identify
the nature of the kinship for four of them, which kinships are charted
further below. Of these individuals, King John was related to one
person in the 1st and 1st degree, one person in the 1st and 2nd
degrees, and two persons in the 3rd and 3rd degrees. This falls into
the same pattern of simple kinships which I've previously noted here on
the newsgroup for his father, King Henry II of England (died 1189), and
for King Louis VII of France (died 1180). Of the parties whose
kinships have not yet been established, Reynold, King of Man, and
Duncan, Earl of Carrick, are almost certainly related through to King
John through their common ancestress, the unidentified wife of Fergus,
lord of Galloway. Various theories have been advanced as to her
identity, but given the uncomplicated patterns of kinships which
existed before 1250, it seems most likely that she was an illegitimate
daughter of King Henry I of England. If so, King John would be related
to Reynold, King of Man, in the 3rd and 4th degrees, and Duncan, Earl
of Carrick, in the 3rd and 3rd degrees. Sylvius de Cresto [Crofto],
clerk, who was styled "king's kinsman" in a court case in 1202,
was evidently related to King John in an unindentified way through
John's mother, Eleanor of Aquitaine; see, for example, Hart,
Cartularium Monasterii de Rameseia 1 (1881): 106, where Silvia de
Cresto is styled "queen's kinsman" [nepoti Reginæ].
1. Rymer, Fœdera 1(1) (1816): 28-29, 87-88, 93, 104, 108, 114
(instances of Otto, King of the Romans, styled "nephew" [nepos]).
2. Rymer, Fœdera 1(1) 91: (Reynold, King of Man, styled
"kinsman").
3. Brial, Monumens des Règnes de Philippe Auguste et de Louis VIII 2
(Recueil des Historiens des Gaules et de la France 18) (1879): 549
(Baldwin, Count of Flanders & Hainault (died 1205), styled
"kinsman").
4. Brial, Monumens des Règnes de Philippe Auguste et de Louis VIII: 3
(Recueil des Historiens des Gaules et de la France 19) (1880): 447
([Marie], Countess of Troyes, styled "sister" [i.e., half sister]).
5. Bain, Cal. of Docs. Rel. Scotland 1 (1881): No. 480 (Duncan, Earl of
Carrick, styled "kinsman").
6. C.P. 12(1) (1953): 768, footnote j (Constance de Beaumont, wife of
Roger IV de Tony, styled "kinswoman").
7. Adams, Select Cases from the Ecclesiastical Courts of the Province
of Canterbury c.1200-1301 (Selden Soc. 95) (1981): 106, 112 (Sylvius
de Cresto [Crofto], clerk, styled "king's kinsman" in 1202).
A. Those parties related by common descent from the English royal
family:
1. Henry I, King of England, died 1135.
2. Maud of England, married Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou, Duke
of Normandy.
3. Henry II, King of England, died 1189.
4. John, King of England, died 1216.
1. Henry II, King of England, died 1189.
2. Maud (or Mathilde) of England, married Henry the Lion, Duke of
Saxony & Bavaria.
3. Otto, King of the Romans, Count of Poitou.
1. Henry I, King of England, died 1135.
2. Constance of England, married Raoul, Vicomte of Beaumont-en-Maine.
3. Richard, Vicomte of Beaumont-en-Maine & Ste.-Suzanne, died c. 1189.
4. Constance of Beaumont, married Roger de Tony.
B. Those parties related by common descent from Queen Eleanor of
Aquitaine:
1. Eleanor of Aquitaine, died 1204, married (2nd) Henry II, King of
England.
2. John, King of England, died 1216.
1. Eleanor of Aquitaine, died 1204, married (1st) Louis VII, King of
France.
2. Marie of France, married, Henri I, Count of Champagne and Brie,
Count Palatine of Troyes.
C. Those parties related by common descent from Fulk V, Count of Anjou,
King of Jerusalem.
1. Fulk V, Count of Anjou, King of Jerusalem, died 1143.
2. Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou, Duke of Normandy.
3. Henry II, King of England, died 1189.
4. John, King of England, died 1216.
1. Fulk V, Count of Anjou, King of Jerusalem, died 1143.
2. Sibylle of Anjou, married Thierri, Count of Flanders.
3. Marguerite, married Baldwin V/VIII, Count of Flanders & Hainault.
4. Baldwin, Count of Flanders & Hainault, Emperor of Constantinople,
died 1205.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www.royalancestry.net
francisco.tav...@gmail.com
> 2. Constance of England, married Raoul, Vicomte of > Beaumont-en-Maine.
> 3. Richard, Vicomte of Beaumont-en-Maine & Ste.-Suzanne, died c. 1189.
> 4. Constance of Beaumont, married Roger de Tony.
a) Constance did not married a Raoul
b) Richard is not viscount of Beaumont*-en-Maine*
c) Constance did marry a Roger but that Roger could be a Tosny
(M.Marek) or a Conches (Schwennicke as cited by Leo)
Even if Tony is a typo, the whole seems rather messy.
Regards,
Francisco
(Portugal, Ispania|Hiberia)
Douglas Richardson
< > 1. Henry I, King of England, died 1135.
< > 2. Constance of England, married Raoul, Vicomte of >
Beaumont-en-Maine.
< > 3. Richard, Vicomte of Beaumont-en-Maine & Ste.-Suzanne, died c.
1189.
< > 4. Constance of Beaumont, married Roger de Tony.
> a) Constance did not married a Raoul
> Regards,
> Francisco
> (Portugal, Ispania|Hiberia)
You are correct. Constance married a Roscelin, not Raoul. Thanks for
catching the error.
DR