Deincourt
Le Bateman
Le
Katheryn_Swynford
I'm wishing I had something that would help you, as I'm trying to find
out what info exists for the Deincourt family which may or may not have
intermarried with that of Swynford ca. 1380s.
Sorry... If I find anything, I'll let you know.
Tony Ingham
I have much material on the Deincourt family.
I guess the marriage you refer to is the fair Blanche and Robert son and
heir of Robert Deyncourt. (see below)
John Deyncourt (from the same branch of the family) married Margery de
ERDESWYK, daughter of Thomas de Erdeswyk (Hardwick) of Leighton
Cheshire. She was the mother of his two children Roger and Alianora.
All the best,
Tony Ingham
> (iii) KATHARINE SWYNFORD
>
>
> It is difficult to fix an accurate date for the beginning of the
> /liason/ of John of Gaunt with Katharine Swynford.
> The Monk of Eversham, speaking of Katharine, says: “Quam ut concubinam
> multo tempore, /vivente uxore Constancia/ carnaliter cognovit (p.
> 128),” which, if true, limits it to 1371-1394, while Froissart’s
> account narrows the period still further, viz. : “Quant . . . celle
> seconde duchesse Constance fut morte, le duc de Lancastre, /la dame
> vivante/, avoit tenu celle Katherine de Ruet, qui aussi avoit esté
> mariée à ung chevallier d’Angleterre. /Le chevallier vivant et mort/,
> tousjours le duc Jehan de Lancastre avoit amé et tenu celle dame
> Katherine . . .” [K. de L. xv. 239].
> Only the years 1371 and 1372 fit in with this statement, a conclusion
> which harmonises with other available evidence. For instance, the
> petition to the Pope above quoted mentions the adultery in the life of
> Duchess Constance, not in the life of Duchess Blanche. The /Chronicon
> Angliae/ (p. 196) speaks of the notoriety of the affair almost as
> something new in 1378, while according to Knighton (ii. 147), it was a
> well-established fact in 1381. No contemporary evidence supports the
> statement of Percy MS. 78 (quoted below), which place the birth of the
> Beauforts in the life of the Duchess Blanche. There is no doubt,
> however that most historians have postdated the birth of the
> Beauforts, or at least of the eldest of them, for in 1390 /Monseigneur
> Jehon de Biaufort, bastart de Lancastre/, was old enough to bear
> himself with credit at the jousts of Saint Inglevert [Froissart, K. de
> L. xiv. 416], though on the other hand Henry Beaufort could be
> described as /admondum puer/, when in 1398 he obtained the Bishopric
> of Lincoln, and Thomas Beaufort, being described in the patent of
> legitimation as /domicellus/ in 1397, was evidently too young for
> knighthood in that year.
> The evidence of the Register, though inconclusive because incomplete,
> points to the same conclusion, viz., that the /liason/ began in 1371
> or 1372.
> At that date the Duke’s gifts and grants to Katharine are no greater
> than might have been made to any other member of his household ;
> immediately after they begin to become significant. Here are the
> principal instances :— (i) May 1, 1372, gift of 10£. ; (ii) May 15,
> 1372, grant of an annuity of 20 marcs ; (iii) June 20, 1372, grant of
> the wardship of the lands of her late husband, excepting the marriage
> fees and advowsons ; (iv) June 23, 1373, gift of three bucks ; (v)
> June 28, 1373, gift of oaks ; (vi) Jan. 1, 1375, grant of the wardship
> of the lands and heir of Sir Robert Deyncourt, and the marriage of the
> heir for her daughter Blanche ; (vii) Jan. 7, 1377, grant of the
> manors of Gringley and Wheatley, and gift of a tun of wine ; (viii)
> July 23, 1377 grant of tenements, late of Geoffrey de Sutton, in St.
> Botolph’s ; (ix) July 24, 1377, gift of 50 oaks for the repair of her
> houses at Ketelthorp ; (x) July 25, 1379, grant of the wardship of the
> lands and heir of Bertram de Savenby ; (xi) Jan. 20, 1381, grant of
> the wardship of the lands, and the marriage of the heir of Elys de
> Thoresby ; (xii) Sept. 7, 1381, grant of an annuity of 200 marcs.
> The presents, already noticed, made to Katharine by the Mayor of
> Leicester belong to the years 1375 and 1379.
Katheryn_Swynford
I'm feeling really dumb here, but I see that you reference:
John Deyncourt = Margery de Erdeswyk
|
-----------------------------------------------
| |
Roger Alianora
(sorry if the ASCII chart gets screwed up):
How are they relatred to Robert heir of Robert Deincourt? I haven't
been able to find much if anything at all on the Robert supposed
husband of Blanche Swynford... Of course, I just might be an idiot and
not know where to look @;-) As you will see, I clearly am not adverse
to fishing expeditions:
I happened upon (okay, got it via ILL in a fishing expedition) two
rolls of arms from Henry III and Edward III and, for the latter, it is
given for :
"Monsire Dayncourt, port d'asur, billite d'or, a une daunsy d'or ...
Monsire William Dayncourt, port d'argent, a une daunsy et billite,
sable"
[REF: _Rolls of Arms of the Reigns of Henry III. and Edward III._, ed.
Nicholas Harris Nicolas (London: William Pickering, 1829), p. 40]
Same family?
Kindest thanks,
Tony Ingham
I was attempting to kill two birds with the one stone and obviously
missed one. Sorry about that.
John Deyncourt was a close relative to Robert the father (and indeed to
Robert the son).
Robert descends from the marriage of William Deyncourt and Millicent la
Zouche, whose children were:
William = Margaret de Welle THE MAIN BRANCH
Nicholas
Oliver
John of Walleyhall Elmton Derbyshire (d. 7 Sep 1385 at Stoke by Newark
Notts.)
Thomas (d. 9 Nov 1368)
Robert = Katherine d'Arundell. Their son Robert married? Blanche
Swynford. He is tentatively placed as the Robert who died in 1441.
Some of my notes:
> 1389 5 marks rent from 1/3 of manor of Tuxford to the heirs of
> William Deyncourt.
>
> 1391 Robert Deyncourt has seisin of 10 marks rent from 2/3 of manor
> of Tuxford co. Nottingham.
>
> 1442 (21 Hy VI.) No. 28, Oct 10
> Robert Deincourt died, seized of Walley Hall in Creswell [Derby],
> by charter dated 25 Oct. 20 Hy. VI. - he died in November following.
> Alice wife of William Lord Lovell aet 32, and Margaret ux Ralf Lord
> Cromwell, aet 30, his cousins and heirs.
>
> John of Gaunt's Register
>
> 1 Jan 1375 THE SAVOY
> 181 Johan etc. a touz etc. Faisons savoir que nous, de nostre
> grace especiale, avons done et grante a nostre tres chere et bien amee
> dame Kateryn de Swynford la garde des terres et del heir de monsire
> Robert Deyncourt chivaler, qu'est a Dieu comande, et le marriage del
> dit heir pur Blaunche, file du dit dame Kateryn, et les quelles apres
> la mort du dit monsire Robert, par cause del maindre age de son dit
> filz et heir, sont devenuz es noz mains, a avoir et tenir au dite dame
> Kateryn ses heirs et executours la garde de les terres et heir
> suisditz ovesque la mariage le dit heir pur Blaunche suisdite tanque
> al plain age le dit heir. Eu tesmoignance etc. Donne etc. a Sauvoye
> le primer jour de Janver l'an xlviij.
>
> 13 Jan 1375 HERTFORD
> 1607 Johan etc. a nostre bien ame Oliver de Barton saluz. Pource
> que nous avons entenduz coment vous avez seisez es noz maines le filz
> et heir de monsire Robert Deyncount a cause de son non age, et nous
> avons grante a nostre tres cher et bien ame dame Kateryne de Swynford
> la garde et mariage de ly pur Blaunche sa file marier, ensemblement
> ovesque la garde de les terres de nous tenuz a ly appartenantz tanque
> a son plain age ; voulons et vous mandons que le dit heir vous faces
> sauvement garder tanque a temps que la dite dame Katerine envoiera a
> vous pur l'eir suisdit, et que a cel temps vous ly delivrez au dite
> dame Katerine ovesque la garde de les terres avantditz. Et cestes
> etc. Donnee etc. a Hertford le xiij. jour de Janver l'an xlviij.
>
> This Robert Deyncourt, son and heir of Robert Deyncourt, was born
> about 1364 and seems to have lived until 1441.
Margaret = 1. Robert de Tibetot = 2. John Cheyne
.................................................................................................................................................................................
John Deyncourt, father of Roger, seemingly descends from the previous
Deyncourt marriage in the main Branch, i.e. the marriage of John
Deyncourt, who died v.p., before 6 Jan 1326/7, and whose children appear
to have been . . . .
Edmund = Joan de Clinton
William = Millicent la Zouche THE MAIN LINE
John = ?. Father of John Deyncourt knight of Blankney Lincoln (d.22
Nov 1393) = Margery de Erdeswyk.
His notes:
> Represented Lincolnshire in Parliament 11 Edward III. (1337)
> Represented Nottinghamshire in Parliament 14 Edward III. (1341)
> Goaler for John King of France at Somerton Castle 1359-1360.
Some notes on John (d.1393)
> 1381-1394 East Sussex Record Office: The Glynde Place Archives GLY/3469
>
> Account rolls of the household of John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster
> (1340-1399), which were found acting as backing to the Waleys
> Cartulary [MS. GLY/1139] when this was repaired. They consist of items
> from various classes of household accounts and were placed haphazardly
> when employed as backing. Each roll of the cartulary had ten
> membranes, which were heavily mutilated in their secondary function.
>
> The accounts were originally filed at the head, which was cut off when
> they were re-used, so that no headings survive and they can now be
> dated only from internal evidence. Both edges have also been trimmed,
> but fortunately the left side is largely without serious depletion.
>
> Two types of account survive, checkrolls of the household and stables
> (17 mm.) and journals of the household (3 mm.). The checkrolls state
> the name of each member in residence and the daily allowance made.
> Each membrane is divided vertically into columns for each day (day and
> date, but rarely month, stated at the head) so that the days of
> residence of each person can be tabulated. Horses are listed at the
> end, giving name and colour or kind, or else the owner and number
> maintained. The journals state the totals of daily expenses of each
> department (Hall, Pantry, Buttery, Brewery, Scullery, Saltery, Stable,
> Almonry).
>
> The membranes have been placed in provisional date order and reference
> is given to the original order when used as backing by a number in
> brackets, being sequences of 1-10 for rolls A and B respectively.
> Acknowledgment is made to Mr. K. B. McFarlane of Oxford for his help
> in dating these membranes.
>
> CHECKROLLS OF THE HOUSEHOLD AND STABLE
>
> Two groups of accounts related by date and composition of household
> have been identified. The first contains a membrane (2) at the head of
> which part of the date including the regnal year has not been cut away
> and is probably 4 [Richard II]. If we can assume that this group was
> taken from a file of one year, the dates can be assigned to 1381.
>
> (1) Tues. 1-31 Jan. [1381] Roll B.10.
>
> The alternative years on which Jan. 1 fell on Tuesday are 1376, 1381
> and 1387. The presence of Walter Diss and Sir John Fernandes puts it
> before 1387 and their appearance on the following roll also confirms
> 1381 as the probable date.
>
> (2) Mon. 1-21 [April, 1381] 4 [Ric. II, 1381]. Roll A.8.
>
> The knights listed here are mainly also on the roll above suggesting a
> near date.
>
> (3) Tues. 4-Sun. 30 [June 1381]. Roll A.5.
>
> This membrane has been shorn on the left so that few names survive.
> Those which do are related to this group.
>
> (4) Mon. 1-31 [July 1381]. Roll A.7.
>
> Mentions the Countess of Pembroke. Lancaster's daughter Elizabeth
> married John, Earl of Pembroke, on 24 Jan. 1380 and the marriage was
> dissolved on 24 Feb. 1383.
>
> (5) Sun. 1-[? Sept. or Dec. 1381]. Roll B.5.
>
> Has the same knights as the previous rolls.
>
> The second group, also associated by similar membership, are dated by
> their relationship with (9) which because it has a column for 29th
> Feb., is securely dated, being a leap year with 29th Feb. on a
> Thursday, as 1392. Dates between 1391 and 1394 are alternatives for
> all the 12 membranes in this group and further internal evidence set
> out below confirms this dating.
>
> (6) Wed. 1.-[29 or after, Mar. or Nov. 1391]. Roll B.6.
>
> Mentions Dame Katherine Swynford and her four children by John of
> Gaunt, John, Henry, Jane [Joan] and Thomas Beaufort. In March 1392
> Jane married Sir Robert Ferrers, [2nd] Baron Ferrers of Wemme, co.
> Salop, and appears in these accounts subsequently as Jane Ferrers. Her
> husband was also a member of the household. Sir John Deincourt, member
> of the household, died in 1393.
>
> (7) Mon. 1-31 [Aug. 1390, May 1391 or Jan. 1392]. Roll A.9.
>
> This roll contains the name Jane Beaufort and is therefore prior to
> Mar. 1392.
>
> (8) Thurs. 1-23 Feb. [1392]. Roll B.4.
>
> The presence of Sir John Deincourt makes later alternative dates
> impossible while Thomas Chaucer and John Kenningham make earlier ones
> unlikely.
>
> Though the month is not stated in the heading, there is this entry
> opposite the name of Roger Trumpyngton: 'Md. quod dictus Rogerus
> allocatus pro vadio predicto a primo die Februarii usque xvij die
> eiusdem mense utroque die eque pro xvij dies per diem vij.d. ob.'
>
> (9) Fri. 1 -4 Dec., Mon. 15 - 22 Jan., Sun. 11 - 15 Feb. [1391/2].
> Roll B.9.
>
> In this roll the months are named. The fact that it overlaps part of
> (8) in date and that those marked absent here were present in the
> former roll indicates this as the checkroll of another place. Sir John
> Deincourt was shown as absent in (8) from 11 Feb. onwards, while in
> this roll his presence commences at this date.
>
> (10) Fri. 23 [Feb.]-Sat. 30 [Mar. 1392]. Roll B.1.
>
> This roll is securely dated by the occurrence of leap year, containing
> Thurs. 29 Feb. within its period. It thus follows consecutively upon
> (8) and comparison with the entries for 22 Feb. in that roll confirm
> the connection. The entries for 23 Feb. in (8) are few and misleading.
> Sir John Deincourt is mentioned but the allowances for horses are not
> entered and thus the names of the family in residence are not given.
>
> (11) [Days cut away at top, before Mar. 1392]. Roll A.1.
>
> Sir John Deincourt and Jane Beaufort both mentioned.
>
> (12) [Days mutilated, between Mar. 1392-1393]. Roll A.2.
>
> Sir John Deincourt and Jane Ferrers both mentioned. For the change in
> style of the latter see note on (6) above.
>
> (13) Mon. 1-31, Thurs. 1-8 [July-Aug. 1392 or Dec. 1393-Jan. 1394].
> Roll A4.
>
> Although the knights' names have been cut away, Jane Ferrers appears
> on the reverse, dating the roll after Mar. 1392. Between the two
> alternative dates remaining no decision has been reached.
>
> (14) [Days cut away, after Mar. 1392]. Roll A.6.
>
> Jane Ferrers mentioned; knights' names cut away.
>
> (15) Sat. 1-30 Nov. [1393]. Roll B.7.
>
> Names cut away. Endorsed: William Eyr[myn], Treasurer. On stylistic
> grounds this and the two succeeding rolls are assigned to the
> post-1390 group.
>
> (16) [Sun. 1]-Sat. 28 [Feb.], Sun. 1-[?, Mar. 1394]. Roll B.8.
>
> Names cut away, but as Sat. 28 is called 'ult.' it is clearly February
> and the alternatives are not really probable.
>
> (17) Fri. 13-Mon. 30 (ult.) [Nov. 1394]. Roll A.3.
>
> Names cut away. Sept. 1392 or Apr. 1393 are possible alternatives.
>
> JOURNAL OF THE HOUSEHOLD
>
> (18) Sun. 5-19 July [1383]. Roll B.3. At Kenilworth.
>
> (19) Mon. 20 July-1 Aug. [1383]. Roll A.10. At Kenilworth.
>
> Against the entry for Sat. 25 July it is noted: 'Isto die recessit
> domina Regina de Kenill' usque Tutbury cum parte familie.' The queen
> is Constance, Queen of Castile, whom John of Gaunt married in 1372.
>
> (20) Sun. 30 Aug.-6 Sept. [1383]. Roll B.2.
>
> The household moves to Banbury, to Henley, to Maidenhead and finally
> to Westminster during the period of this account. Reference to the
> lord's daughter Katherine at Kenilworth at the commencement rules out
> the alternative dates of 1388 and 1394, as she was married to John of
> Castile in 1387 and presumably went to Spain in this year. Apparently
> all three rolls form part of the journal for the half-year ending
> Michaelmas 1383.
> (G.E.C. Complete Peerage, X, pp. 395, 396.)
> ..................................................................................................................................................................................
>
> From John of Gaunt's Register 1379-1383.
> 11 Jan 1380. Kenilworth Castle.
> Order to John Deyncourt, esquire, steward and constable of
> Kenilworth castle, to pay to Robert Cosyn, the duke's baker (pestour),
> 26s. 4d. and a maille, for necessary repairs made by him in the
> "pistrine" of the duke's household in the castle of Kenilworth,
> receiving details of the expenses for the same. Due allowance, etc.
>
> 23 Jul 1387. Coimbra. [in Parongale]
> Johan, etc., a noz treschiers et tresbiennamez monsire Robert
> Swillington, monsire Thomas Hungerford, monsirs Johan Pole de
> Neuburgh, sire Johan Scarle, Thomas Hesulden et autres de nostre
> counseille en Engleterre, saluz. Purceo que par acompte fait parente
> nos treschers et bienamez monsire Johan Deyncourt, monsire Richard
> Abberbury, William Castell et Thomas Tuttebury pur nous dune part, et
> nostre trescher bachiler Thomas Foog pur luy et sa retenue en ceste
> nostre presente viage sur la conquest de nostre reume de Spaigne
> dautre part, trove est que nous devons a dit monsire Thomas mille sys
> cents cessante et quinze livres quaturze sould dys deneris maile,
> dount il ad une bille devers luy soubz signet de dit Thomas Tutbury,
> et de quele somme il nous prie de assignment, nous voullons et vous
> mandons que, meintenant veue cestes, vous luy facez lettres de garrant
> pur receivre des issues de nostre receite de Pountfriet sys cents
> livres dargent, et des issues de nostre manoir de Sombourne cynk cents
> livres dargent, et des issues de nostre receite de Peveneseye et de
> Wylington et de tout nostre receite en Soussex cynk cents cessante et
> quinze livres tresze sould dys deneris maile, sitost come bonement ceo
> purrount estre paiez pur autres charges que sur icelles noz receitz
> sount pardevant. Purvieuz toutfoitz que soloum ceo qil soit ensi paie
> du dit dette. Et cestes noz lettres vous ent serront garrant. Donnee
> soubz nostre prive seal a Quymbre en Parongale le xxiij. jour de
> Jullet lan de grace MCCC IIII.xx VII.
Some notes on Roger, son of John, son of John (perhaps). Roger's sister
Alianora married John Poyntz of North Okendon, near the manor of Gaynes
in Upminster held by Roger.
> Roger Beauford, brother of Pope Gregory XI., during his imprisonment
> at Kenilworth Castle, was godfather to Roger Deyncourt when he was
> baptised on 21 May 1377.
>
> Proof of Age, 7 Aug 1400.
>
> 1426/7 Essex Record Office D/DRu/T1/84
> RUSSELL FAMILY OF COLCHESTER HALL,TAKELEY AND STUBBERS, NORTH OCKENDON
> Dates of Creation 22 Jan., 1426/7.
> Grant.
> Robt. atte Hethe of Upminster (s. of William atte Hethe), on
> decease of w. Agnes, to Jn. Stefne, Jn. Corbyn of Upminster and Joan
> Gennor of North Ockendon .
> Land and tenements with pasture and meadow, in North Ockendon [no
> details].
> Wtn: Roger Dencort, William Melman, John Poynys, William Ardale, Joan
> Goodman.
>
> 1442-1450 P.R.O. C 1/15/91
> Richard, son of William Burys. v. Roger Dencourt and John Felde,
> feoffees for Richard and Margaret Felde.: Manor of Rokels.: Suffolk.
> 21-28 Henry VI
>
> 1444 Essex Record Office D/DL/T1/395
> BARRETT LENNARD FAMILY OF AVELEY, KENT, SUSSEX, NORFOLK, CUMBERLAND,
> IRELAND
> Dates of Creation 3 September 1444
> Grant from Tho. Copto, clerk, to Rob. Hotoft and Wm. Pert of
> 'Gosefords' in Stifford and S. Ockendon,which he had with Wm. Sayer of
> Jn. Heere and others; also 3 ac. in S.Ockendon called 'Crowescroft',
> which he had of Jn. Gladewyn and others; also a croft in Stifford
> called 'Craweshawe' which he had of Deyncourt and Stevyn. Warranty
> clause.
> Witnesses: Sir Maurice Bruyn; Rog. Deyncourt, esq.; Rob. Wade; Jn.
> Ardale: Jn. Copto. Seal.
>
> 1444/5 P.R.O. C 1/13/165 Richard, son of William Burys. v.
> Roger Dancourt or Deyncourt and John Felde, feoffees for Richard and
> Margaret Felde, deceased.: Manor of Rokels.: Suffolk. 23 Hen. VI
> (1444/5)
On reading the above the whole thing seems very convoluted. I apologise
for that. The whole of the Deyncourt descent from the 14th century on
is very difficult to follow. Many Williams, Johns and Roberts etc.
I have established my lines by following the descent of the various
manors and smaller holdings in Derby, Notts. and Lincoln. The are all
covered in the many Deyncourt I.P.M's. for the period, the County
Historys and some in the various V.C.H. volumes.
This is the last reference (re. the Essex Deyncourts) to the northern
Deyncourt properties.
From Yeatman's History of Derby
32 Henry VI (1453-4)
Thomas Deyncourt (son and heir of Roger of Gayns in Upminster),
demised land to Thomas Southwyke in Lincs., Notts. & Derby.
I have a gedcom file which I sent as an attachment to Le Bateman to
assist him with his Hardwick query. If you would like a copy I will
gladly send it.
All the best,
Tony Ingham
On second thoughts I've attached the gedcom file. If you dont have a
Family History program, a Google search will show a Gedcom Reader
available as a free download. This Gedcom Reader program will handle the
gedcom file as an input.