Stewart and Plantagenet Ancestry of the Rev. Robert Rose of Virginia
Doug McDonald
have been given through the families of Rose of Kilravock and Rose
of Bellivat (9) to Charlemagne, Henry I, and Robert II of Scotland.
More recently Paul Gifford of Michigan, in his book on Falconer of
Halkerton, gave a purported descent from Robert III of Scotland,
through Rose of Bellivat, Falconer of Halkerton, Elizabeth Douglas
of Glenbervie, and the Earls of Angus. I find the evidence for this
line, which is based on a published genealogy only 75 years after
the fact, to be reasonable, except that it looks as if there might
be a wrong wife at one spot, based on dates. The Roses in the
Bellivat line are much mentioned as outlaws in the Register of the
Privy Council, and spent a goodly amount of their lives in the
Tollbooth of Edinburgh. This may explain the strange dates.
I here present an alternate line to the Rev. Rose, through his
mother, Margaret Grant. This line has dual connections through the
Earls of Atholl to both Robert III and Edward III.
The line goes as follows (birth and death dates separated by a hyphen)
1 Rev. Robert Rose 12 Feb 1704 - 30 Jun 1751
2 John Rose of Wester Alves, Scotland Abt 1666 - 13 Apr 1724
3 Margaret Grant - 1774
6 Patrick Grant in Whytree - Bef 11 Nov 1698
12 John Grant 5th of Ballindalloch Abt 1596 - Abt 1679
13 Elizabeth Innes
24 Patrick Grant 4th of Ballindalloch - Bef 1649
25 Helen Ogilvie - Bef 1621
48 Patrick Grant 3rd of Ballindalloch - 8 Sep 1586
49 Grizel Grant
98 John "The Gentle" Grant 4th of Freuchie 1507 - 2 Jun 1585
99 Lady Margaret Stewart - 1555
196 James Grant 3rd of Freuchie Abt 1485 - 29 Aug 1553
197 Elizabeth Forbes
198 John Stewart 3rd Earl of Atholl 1507 - 1542
199 Grizel Rattray - Bef Mar 1542
394 John Forbes 6th Lord Forbes 1472 - 1547
395 Catherine Stewart
396 John Stewart 2nd Earl of Atholl - 1521
397 Janet Campbell - Feb 1546
788 William Forbes 3rd Lord Forbes - Bef 5 Jul 1483
789 Christian Gordon
790 John Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl Abt 1442 - 15 Sep 1512
791 Margaret Douglas - Bef 1475
792 John Stewart 1st Earl of Atholl, same as #790
793 Eleanor Sinclair - 21 Mar 1518
1576 James Forbes 2nd Lord Forbes 1435 - 1460
1577 Egidia (Gille) Keith 1445 -
1580 Sir James Stewart "the Black Knight of Lorn"
1581 Lady Joan Beaufort 1398 - 15 Jul 1445
1582 Archibald Douglas 5th Earl Douglas Abt 1390 - 26 Jun 1439
1583 Euphemia Graham - 1569
3152 Alexander De Forbes 1st Lord Forbes 1404 - 1448
3153 Elizabeth Douglas - After 1439
3162 John de Beaufort Earl of Somerset 1373 - 16 Mar 1410
3163 Lady Margaret Holland Abt 1383 - 30 Dec 1439
3164 Archibald Douglas 4th Earl Douglas Abt 1372 - 17 Aug 1424
3165 Margaret Stewart - Bef 1456
6306 George Douglas 1st Earl of Angus
6307 Mary Stewart Abt 1380 - After 1458
6324 John of Gaunt Duke of Lancaster Mar 1340 - 3 Feb 1399
6325 Katherine Swynford Roet 1350 - 10 May 1403
6330 Robert III Stewart King of Scotland Abt 1347 - 1 Apr 1406
6331 Annabella Drummond Countess of Carrick Abt 1350 - 1402
12614 Robert III Stewart King of Scotland, same as #6330
12615 Annabella Drummond Countess of Carrick, same as #6331
12648 Edward III King of England 13 Nov 1312 - 21 Jun 1377
12649 Philippa of Hainault 24 Jun 1311 - 14 Aug 1369
The critical connections here are through #6, Patrick Grant,
and #49, Grizel Grant. The pedigree of John Grant, 5th of
Ballindalloch, is well documented in Chiefs of Grant (3), with
uncited land transactions as primary evidence; I have located
sufficient of these to confirm the genealogy.
The key document is the matriculation of arms (7) of William
Rose of Montcoffer, the "factor" of the Earl of Fife, and the
similar one (6) of Col. Murray Rose of VA, that is, "Or, a boar's
head couped gules between three water bougets sable all within a
bordure per pale Azure and Sable charged with a boar's head couped
between a garb and a martlet in chief, two antique crowns in fess
and a garb between two boar's heads couped in base Or." The part
within the bordure is Rose of Kilravock, and the charges on the
bordure represent Rose of Kilravock, Grant of Ballindalloch, and
Gordon of Huntly. (Kilravock is a descendant of Gordon of Huntly.)
The ancestors of Grizel Grant, # 49, are documented well in the
secondary literature, including both the Scots Peerage (1) and the
Complete Peerage (2), with the ancestry as shown. We therefore do
not offer a detailed proof of her descent. Note that the descent
from both wives of the 1st Earl of Atholl removes any possible
lingering doubt about "which wife". Though the CP and SP are quite
clear about this, several less reputable sources give different
accounts, probably to fudge in descents from Edward III.
SP clearly states that this Grizel Grant married Patrick, 3rd
of Ballindalloch. However, it does not state that she was a daughter
of Margaret Stewart. Burkes (4) and www.baronage.co.uk do clearly
state that this is so. There is sufficient primary evidence of this
connection, described here.
Patrick Grant III of Ballindalloch married, first, Grizel Grant
"about 1565" (3,12) and second Margaret Gordon, "about 1576". Ref.
13 alone makes the Gordon marriage about 1579, since it refers to
their marriage contract. Chiefs of Grant says that Patrick IV was
infeft in Ballindalloch in 1591. I can't find such a document, but I
can find him in land transactions in 1595 as "of Ballindalloch"
rather than "younger of" or "fiar of" which previously refer to him
(14). If we assume he (IV) was 21 when infeft, he was born 1574 or
likely much earlier, if the 1591 date is correct. This makes him son
of Grizel Grant.
In the grant of arms in Scotland to Murray Fontaine Rose, May
10, 1985 (6), it is stated:
"... Robert Rose ... was elder brother of John Rose whose
eldest son William Rose of Montcoffer matriculated arms in the
Public Register of all Arms and Bearings in Scotland, Volume 1,
Folio 524, of date May 27, 1780, as representar of Rose of Bellevit,
wherein it is narrated inter alia that William Rose of Ballevit,
Esquire, eldest son and heir of John Rose, esquire and Anne daughter
of William Cumming of Craigmiln Esquire, which John was third son of
John Rose of Lochiehills, Esquire, and Margaret daughter of Patrick
Grant younger of Balindalloch, which last John was son and heir of
Patrick Rose of Lochiehills, Esquire, and Margaret, daughter of
Thomas Tulloch of Boglonn [sic] and younger son of Tannachie ..."
A clerk of the Lord Lyons has examined the original of the
Montcoffer grant (7) and states that the wording is indeed similar,
but that no other information is present, and that it would not be
worthwhile to get a copy of it. It should be noted that William
Rose, writing in 1780, may have personally known many of the later
people we discuss.
In various places John Rose, father of Rev. Robert Rose and his
brother John Rose, is described variously as of Alves, Wester Alves,
or Lochiehills. His father (grandfather of Robert) was "of
Lochiehills". Primary citations all refer to Alves or Wester Alves,
the only place he is called "of Lochiehills" is the Grant of Arms.
Note that Lochiehill, Alves and Wester Alves, and Whytree form a
roughly equilateral triangle less than 5 miles on a side.
(Lochiehill is near Springfield, just east of Forres, and Whytree is
between Barnhill and Edinvale, on the northern edge of the Dallas
Forest. See www.streetmap.co.uk. )
The Diary of Robert Rose (9) makes clear that he is the brother
(clearly implying full brother) of John Rose, whose genealogy
appears in Burke's (5), "Rose of Montcoffer" (10) and the 1780 grant
of arms (7). There is a description of the Rev's amazement at seeing
his brother recently arrived in America, while he (Robert) was
visiting a port city. This is just as described in Burke's and Ref.
10. (The brother John had taken part in the rebellion of 1745 and
had to make a quick getaway.) There are references to "our" mother.
A primary source (15) verifies the statement in secondary
sources that she was "only daughter" of Patrick "in" Whytree, as she
was his heir, and that she was wife of John Rose of Alves. This is
corroborated in a sasine of 1697 (16) ("daughter of Patrick Grant in
Whytree".)
Patrick Grant in Whytree is listed in Sasines of Banff (16) in
sasines of May 17, 1694 and June 29, 1697. On the same reel of film,
a Patrick Grant is listed in 1662 as brother of a John Grant, fiar
of Ballindalloch (who was infeft in his lands the next year, per
Chiefs of Grant, becoming 6th of Ballindalloch) , in a deed (Mack. 5
506). This proves that there was a Patrick in this generation, who
is not listed in Chiefs of Grant. There are no references to
Patrick, brother of John (fiar of Ballindalloch) and Patrick "in
Whytree" which overlap in time; the former disappears before the
latter appears.
Patrick Grant in Whitetree was admitted as elder to the church
of Elgin, Feb. 28, 1685 (17).
Recapitulating, we have primary evidence stating that a Patrick
Grant in Whytree was father of Margaret Grant. We have primary
evidence that a Patrick Grant, son of John Grant, 5th of
Ballindalloch, existed. We have the secondary evidence in the
various genealogies and Burkes, apparently based on the grants of
arms, that Patrick Grant, in or of Whytree, was "younger of
Ballindalloch" (sometimes called "Younger son of Ballindalloch").
The Patrick Grants in the preceeding and succeeding generations of
Grant of Ballindalloch do not fit well in time, though they are both
not totally impossible. Chiefs of Grant, Vol. I, p 520, a chart of
the Grants of Ballindalloch, gives clues to primary evidence, some
of which we have confirmed, that make them impossible as the father
of Margaret Grant. The earlier Patrick was "of Foyness" (or Phonas),
witnessed charters in 1619 and 1621, but was alive in 1672. The
later Patrick, d. 1709, is a better time match but his only daughter
and heir was a Mary. (We should add the wife of John Grant, 6th of
Ballindalloch, was a descendant of James V, King of Scots.)
Thus, by deduction, our Patrick Grant in Whytree must fit here,
unless one of the two other possible fathers had two sons named
Patrick . Though there is no primary evidence showing the
metamorphosis of Patrick, younger of Ballindalloch, into Patrick in
Whytree, the statements in the grants of arms fit perfectly. And
there is no difficulty of location: Ballindalloch and Whytree are 12
miles apart on modern roads.
Thus we show that Margaret Grant was, with very high
probability, a descendant of Grizel Grant, and hence of the two kings.
References:
1. Scots Peerage
2. Complete Peerage
3. Chiefs of Grant, a book by Sir. William Fraser, Edinburgh, 1883,
which is a complete genealogy and history of Grant of Freuchie and
Grant, and contains detailed notated tables of the genealogy of the
first family of Grant of Ballindalloch.
4. Burke's Landed Gentry, 1938 (Grant of Elchies, reciting the line
of Grant of Ballindalloch)
5. Burke's Landed Gentry, the Kingdom in Scotland, 2001 (Rose of
Kilravock, reciting Rose of Bellivat and the ancestry of a brother
of the Rev. Robert. Rose.)
6. The Matriculation of Arms in Scotland of Col. Murray Rose of
Virginia, 1985
7. The Matriculation of Arms in Scotland of William Rose of
Montcoffer, 1780. This person was the son of John Rose (brother of
the Rev. Robert Rose) who is documented in Burke's. The ultimate
source of all current published descents of the Rev. Rose from Grant
of Ballindalloch come from this or the original documents used to
support it (which are probably extant, but require a visit to
Scotland to view.)
8. A Genealogical Deduction of Rose of Kilravock, written in 1683 by
Hew Rose, edited by Cosmo Innes, Edinburgh 1848 (reprinted 1981).
This work does not reach in time Margaret Grant, but only is support
for the earlier parts of the Rose genealogy in Burke's and the arms
grants.
9. The Diary of the Rev. Robert Rose, R. E. Fall ed., McClure Press,
1977.
10. The Family Papers of Rose of Montcoffer, A. and H. Tayler,
Aberdeen, 1926
11. Falconer of Halkerton, by Paul Gifford, Heritage Books.
12. Register of the Great Seal, Mar. 7, 1565, referring to them as
spouses.
13. Register of the Great Seal, Apr. 11, 1581, quoting a document
dated Sept. 4, 1579 at Ballandalloch naming Margaret Gordon and
Patrick Grant in a marriage contract.
14. Register of the Great Seal, Sept. 5 1595, "Patricio Grant de
Balnadalloch et Helene Ogilvie ejus sponse."
15. "Inquisitionvm ad Capallam Domini Regis, Retournatorvm ,,,"
Inquisitions General, #8035, Nov. 11, 1698, Margaret Grant is listed
as "sponsa Magistri Joannis Ross in Alves, heres Patricii Grant in
Whytree, patris"
16. Banff Sasines 1600-1780, LDS film 896591
17. Records of Elgin, Aberdeen University Studies #35, Stephen Ree
editor, pub.1908, V. 2, p. 315,
Doug McDonald
lizgwalker
who emigrated from Nairn, Scotland to U.S. in 1812. I had been told that
David son of Hugh Rose (of Balacheannich) was related to the Roses of
Kilravock but I have a couple hundred year leap (in documents) from the "A
Genealogical Deduction of Rose..." to my 1812 immigrant and have been
unable to prove that. I recently received information, though, that
Isabella is the daughter of Alexander Rose 3rd of Tomnarroch. That lines
apparently goes back through the Roses of Bellivat to the Kilravock Roses.
How can I verify this? Liz Walker
lizgwalker
WJho...@aol.com
lizgw...@cox.net writes:
Liz this time period isn't Medieval. You'd probably do better posting your
request to the ROSE genform at boards.ancestry.com and at www.genforum.com.
Will
Doug McDonald
> In a message dated 1/16/2005 8:53:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> lizgw...@cox.net writes:
>
>
>>I am descended from David Rose and Isabella Rose (maiden and married name)
>>who emigrated from Nairn, Scotland to U.S. in 1812.
> Liz this time period isn't Medieval.
Part of her interest period is medieval; the Bellivat Roses have
prominent roles in the Register of the Great Seal and
other documents that stopped at the end of the medieval period,
or thereabouts.
I have answered her in e-mail.
Doug McDonald
Ginny Wagner
From Collectanea Topographica Genealogica, Vol. VI, (London: John Bowyer
Nichols and Son), 1840, pp. 284-289:
_____________________________________________________________
I I I
*William == Oliva **Guido == Mary Sir Hugh == de Gorram
de Gorram I de St. Loup I de Gorram de Orta I
liv. 1199 I I 1178 liv.1238 I
I I single d. 1239 I
_________________________ I I
*** I **** I I I
Sir Ralph == Aaliz Sir Robert I Sir Fulk de Orta
de Gorram de Averton de Gorram I co-heir of Sir Robert
liv. 1237 I de Gorram,Lord of Livare
d. ca 1238 I 1239, living 1255
_____________________________________
I I I
Gervaise Groiet Sir Giles de St. Loup [St. Lo]
hostage for co-heir of Sir Robert de Gorram and
William deGorram Lord of la Tanniere 1239
King John 1199
*Lord of la Tanniere
**[St. Lo, Chart. Rolls 1 Jo. m. 25.]
***of la Tanniere and Livare, died about 1227?
****living 1235, then married to Sir Henry de Gastines
In an undated grant to Savigny Abbey of "the tolls of Feuguerolles," William
son of Ralph de Gorram is a witness; this charter is supposed to be of the
early part of century XII.
In a Charter, dated 1114 (being a grant to Vitalis first Abbot of Savigny of
wood-land between the streams Urda and Chamberon), Henry de Gorram as a
witness.
Charters [not all listed here]:
1. Giles de Gorram ... wife, children, son William ca 1180
2. William de Gorram, brother Henry, Oliva wife, Ralph and Robert sons,
witnessed by Henry de Gorram, ca 1190
3. Guido de St. Loup and Mary de Gorrann his wife
4. Guido de St. Loup, Mary his wife, Gervase his eldest son, all other
children
5. Sir Ralph de Gorran, disputed rent, about 1215
6. Sir Ralph de Gorran, Lord of Thaonere and of Livare, 1227
7. Sir Dreux de Mellot,# Lord of Mayenne, consent of Isabella his wife,
confirms grant made in 1235 by Sir Robert de Gorram still living 1237
8. Agreement by Sir Giles de St. Loup and Foqueth son of Hugh Lord of Orta,
the heirs of Sir Robert de Goron of Thaonere, that they will observe the
Convention between the said Robert and the Abbot and Convent of Savigny,
1239.
9. Sir Fulch de Oeta, Lord of Livare, with consent of Johanna his wife, ...
Savigny Abbey. 1255
10. Inspeximus, by Ralph, Bishop of Avranches, of the following Savigny
Charters:
a. Grant by Robert de Gorran, Lord of Thaonere and Livare
b. Confirmation by Robert de Gorran of grants by his ancestors
c. Confirmation by Giles de St. Loup [St. Lo] and Floqueth [Fulch] son of
Hugh Lord of Orta, heirs of Sir Robert de Gorran, of the Convention, dated
12 Feb. 1282-3.
#In 1237, Sir Dreux de Mellot, Lord of Mayenne, (in right of his wife
Isabella, eldest daughter and coheiress of Juhel III Lord of Mayenne)
confirmed the grant of La Doree made by Sir Robert de Gorram in 1235 to
Mount St. Michael. Seal on brown wax: round, about two inches and a half
in diameter and exhibits part of a shield charged with two bars between
(six?) birds (3,2,1?); to which a label of four points is added by Dom
Morice from a mutilated seal to a deed dated 1219. The counterseal is
round, one inch in diameter,
cross SECRETVM EST hOC ....;
surrounding a bird.
Seals on green wax on original grant, in 1235 by Sir Robert de Gorram to the
Monks of Mount St. Michael, of an estate in La Doree:
cross S': P : DECANI : DE: ERNEIA
Oval, one and a half by three quarters of an inch. Two birds perched on a
fleur-de-lis.
cross S' ROBERTTI DE GORAN.
The S reversed. Round, one inch and a half diameter. On a shield, three
lions rampant.
cross S' : HENRICI: DE: GASTINET.
The S reversed. Round, one inch and a half diameter. On a shield, a bar
(gemel?) beneath a chief.
Ginny Wagner