Serlo de Pleasley and the Lords Deincourt (a DD Correction, & more)
The...@aol.com
Dear Rosie,
Many thanks for that quick read (and correction).
There should be a rule about siblings marrying
individuals with the same name..... But then, it's a few
centuries too late in this case.
As to the de Preasley - Willoughby connection indicated
in the Tilley book: do you know offhand if this is valid,
and in fact a part of the Willoughby (of Eresby) ancestry as
indicated by Tilley?
Grazie mille,
John *
* John P. Ravilious
The...@aol.com
Dear Rosie, et al.,
In Domesday Descendants, we have the account of one Serlo de Pleasley,
which reads as follows:
" de Plesleia, Serlo
Held one fee of Hubert fitz Ralph in 1166 at Ashover, Derbyshire,
held by his ancestor Serlo in 1086. Named from Pleasley,
Derbyshire. His daughter of granddaughter Amabilis married John
fitz John de Aincourt. He was dead by 1196, having made a grant
to Felley for his burial there c. 1189/95 (Cart. Thurgarton,
pp. lxxvi, ci-ii).
{refs} Holdsworth, Rufford Charters, nos 99, 133; Red Book
of the Exchequer, ed. Hall (1897), pp. 343-44 " [1]
This agrees reasonably with the accounts in CP [2] and elsewhere
concerning the Deincourt family connection [3], with one significant
difference. It was Oliver fitz John de Aincourt (or Deincourt) that
was the husband of Amabel, or Amabilis.
Interestingly, the account in CP does not deal with the ancestry of
Amabel, wife of Oliver Deincourt. References in some secondary works
indicate there were two coheiresses of Serlo de Pleasley:
(1) Amabel/Amabilis, wife of Deincourt, as above; and (2) Sara 'de
Pleasley', wife of Robert de Willoughby [4]. Further, it is indicated
that the de Pleasley lands in Derbyshire that passed to the Deincourt
family by this marriage provided the maritagia for two Deincourt
daughters, one (ca. 1282) marrying 'Isidore' de Reresby, and the other
a member of the 'Musters' family.
The essentials of the Tilley account conform to many known facts,
with certain exceptions (e.g., the de Reresby who acquired the lands at
Ashover, including Pleasley, by marriage evidently was Ralph de Reresby,
father of Adam of Thribergh [5]). I would conjecture that the
genealogy of the Deincourts of Blankney, co. Lincs. can be extended to
appear as follows:
Serlo
tenant of William Peverel at Glapwell,
also of Ashover, co. Derbys. at
Domesday Book, 1086
I
I
NN, heir of Ashover
I
I
NN, heir of Ashover
I
I
Serlo de Pleasley [DD 638-9]
d. bef 1196
_____________________________________I_____
I I
Sara = Robert de Amabel = Oliver fitz John
I Willoughby [Amabilis] I Deincourt
I [DD; CP IV] I d. bef 1222
V _______________________I [CP IV]
I
Oliver Deincourt = Nichole, 'nepta' of
d. bef 19 Sep 1246 I Nichole de la Haye
[CP IV] I (Duddington = maritagium)
________________________I
I
Sir John Deincourt = bef 12 Nov 1251 Agnes de Neville
d. bef 14 Oct 1257 [CP IV] I (Steeping, Lincs. = maritagium)
I
_______________________________I_______________________
I I I
Sir Edmund Deincourt Amicia = Ralph de NN = de
d. 6 Jan 1326/7 [CP IV] (Pleasley = I Reresby 'de Musters'
I maritagium) I I
I I I
V V V
DEINCOURT of RERESBY of
Blankney Thribergh
I would be very interested in any documentation, comment or criticism
that would bear on the above (partial) reconstruction.
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Domesday Descendants, pp. 638-9.
[2] CP IV:118 (and notes), sub Deincourt.
[3] Kay Allen, AG, <Re: Deincourt-D'Eyncourt>, SGM, 25 Feb 1999
cites Moriarty Notebook XVIII: 111-2;
Ed Mann, <Re: Deincourt-D'Eyncourt>, SGM, 25 Feb 1999
cites Burke's Dormant & Extinct Peerages, p. 170.
[4] one example: The OLD HALLS, Manors and Families OF DERBYSHIRE, by
Joseph Tilley (1892). The text, provided at
http://www.usigs.org/library/books/uk/dby/DbyOldHallsTilly1892/dbyh3Scarsdale/dbyh3013.htm
reads in part as follows:
" Serlo, the Saxon, who held Ashover at the Survey under Fitzhubert,
had two granddaughters (co-heiresses), who took the manor in moieties
to their husbands - Willoughby, of Lincoln, and Deincourt, of
Nottingham. The Lincolnshire Willoughbys were descendants of John, the
Norman Knight, who fought at Hastings, and direct ancestor of the
Barons Middleton, Willoughby de Eresby, Willoughby de Broke, and
Willoughby de Parham. The lads of this house distinguished themselves
at Falkirk, with Edward I. ; at Cressy, with Edward III.; at Poictiers,
with the Black Prince; at Agincourt and Vernoil, with Henry N'. ; at
Bosworth, with Richmond. But the Banks of the Amber were soon forsaken,
and the lands exchanged for Pleasley with Isidore Reresby, who had
married a daughter and co-heiress of Deincourt. This would be about
1282. The Reresbys would now be holding the entire manor, but from
another co-heiress of Deincourt, who shared with her sister their
father's moiety of Ashover and espoused Musters, of Nottinghamshire. "
[5] Visitations of the North, Part III (Publications of the Surtees
Society, Vol. CXLIV) (Newcastle: Northumberland Press Ltd., 1930),
pedigree of Reresby.
* John P. Ravilious
rosie bevan
Keats-Rohan's DD account of Serlo is correct - Amabilis did in fact marry
John fitz John Deincourt who was the brother of Oliver Deincourt - it just
happens that they had wives with the same name. John and Amabilis (also
recorded as Matilda) had a daughter Amicia and a son and heir, Ralph, who
appears to have died without issue because the fee in Ashover had passed to
Ralph de Reresby, the son of Amicia Deincourt and Isoerus de Reresby after
1239.
This is outlined in the Thurgarten Cartulary p.lxxvi-lxxvii
Cheers
Rosie
rosie bevan
were Matilda, wife of John Deincourt, and Beatrix, wife of Ralph Willoughby,
and on 6 July 1203 king John confirmed a gift made to (a later) Serlo de
Pleasli when he was count of Mortain, to both parties. Beatrix was daughter
of Hugh de Steeton who had married a kinswoman of Serlo. Amabil/Matilda was
termed Matilda de Belou in John Deincourt's charter to Felley Priory. They
could have been grand-daughters or nieces of Serlo. The descent of half the
fee to the Musters family probably occurred via the Willoughbys.
Cristopher Nash
> Sara = Robert de Amabel = Oliver fitz John
> I Willoughby [Amabilis] I Deincourt
> I [DD; CP IV] I d. bef 1222
> V _______________________I [CP IV]
> I
> Oliver Deincourt = Nichole, 'nepta' of
> d. bef 19 Sep 1246 I Nichole de la Haye
> [CP IV] I (Duddington = maritagium)
Thanks, John, for this (and to Rosie for valuable adds&corrs). I'm
just wondering whether for the d. of the first of these Olivers you'd
any reason in mind for setting aside CP's "d. in or before 1201"
[118, note c] ? Or do I deign to court amabel disaster?
Cheers!
Cris
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