Judith married to Tostig of Northumberland
Kelly Petit
1. She's set up as the daughter of Richard III of Normandy and Adelheid
2. She's set up as the daughter of Eleanor of Normandy (Richard I's
daughter) and Baudin IV of Flandern.
I thought the second solution was the right one, but now I don't know
any longer.
Can anyone help me here?
regards
Kelly Petit
Gryphon801
see no reason to doubt this.
carol...@my-deja.com
Normandie and Baldwin IV of Flanders, granddaughter of Richard II De
Normandie and Judith De Bretagne. They also state that Richard III De
Normandie and Aelis Capet had no children. Now, Richard III and
Eleanor were siblings, so dates are no help here.
In article <20000516144833...@ng-fo1.aol.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Kelly Petit
Thanks for replies, both.
I had the same info as you, but then a friend found something different in
the LDS records. So if all other sources have Baldwin IV and Eleanor, R
III's sister, I may take this for the official version, I suppose...
Kelly
Kay Allen AG
make it so. One must evaluate these sources.
Since there appears to be a conflict, this conflict should be
investigated, not dismissed out of hand.
Kay Allen AG
Kelly Petit
You're surely right-:)
Anyway, I said 'suppose' and not 'dismiss'.
The problem is that so far I have not been able to get any possibility of
investigating the different sources. That was why I addressed my post here where
there are many specialists in the matter.
kelly
Kay Allen AG
I interpreted your statement as a dismissal. Sorry for the
misinterpretation.
> The problem is that so far I have not been able to get any possibility of
> investigating the different sources. That was why I addressed my post here where
> there are many specialists in the matter.
It might help if you gave us the other sources, so that the experts
could discuss their merits and/or demerits.
ES 2:79 gives Gerd Wunder, Wilhelm der Eroberer und seine Verwandten in
der Sicht der kontinentalen Dynastengenealogie, in Genealogisches
Jahrbuch 6/7, 19-47; dazu korrigierend op cit 8, 1968, p. 143; and
A. Sanfelice di Monteforte, Richerche storico-critico-genealogiche (del
758 al 1194) Band II und Supplement, tab. X as the supports for
daughter of Duke Richard III and Aelis Capet.
Perhaps someone would care to comment on these sources? ES is a
reputable source, but not as good for English as for Continental
genealogy.
Kay Allen AG
> kelly
Stewart Baldwin
This is discussed in Freeman's History of the Norman Conquest of
England, vol. 3, pp. 663-5, where he concludes that Judith was the
daughter of Baldwin IV by a daughter of Richard II of Normandy. The
principle primary sources cited (among other, later ones) are the
nearly contemporary Vita Ædwardi (a life of Edward the Confessor),
which states that she was a sister of Baldwin V of Flanders and a
"niece" ("... neptem ...") of Edward (the word "niece" being explained
away as "daughter of a fist cousin", Edward's mother being Emma of
Normandy); Florence of Worcester, who under the year 1051 calls her a
daughter of Baldwin, count of Flanders; Orderic Vitalis, who twice
refers to her as a sister of Matilda of Flanders and daughter of
Baldwin V (not IV, but he is otherwise confused on his genealogy
here), followed in this by some later writers; and the "Saxon
annalist", who calls Judith an aunt of count Robert of Flanders (son
of Baldwin V) and a relative of king Ethmund (presumably meaning
Edward the Confessor), but this annalist errs in making Judith the
wife of Harold rather than Tostig.
Freeman does not mention the theory that Judith was the daughter of
Richard III of Normandy, and none of the primary sources that he cites
would support that interpretation. The sources given by ES should be
tracked back to see what the basis of that claim is.
Stewart Baldwin
Gryphon801
Verwandten...", GENEALOGISCHES JAHRBUCH 6/7:19-47. I have not read this
article myself and I agree that the attribution of Judith should be looked
into.
Kelly Petit
Thanks a lot for further explanation-:)
kelly
Kelly Petit
Thanks a lot-:)
kelly
Kelly Petit
Thanks to you too-:)
It isn't easy when one is a mere amateur.
kelly
Kelly Petit
"Normander, langobarder och påvar" of Nils Lindbergh (1992)
It was there that I saw Judith set up as a daughter of Richard III
kelly
Kelly Petit wrote:
> Stewart Baldwin wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 16 May 2000 19:06:03 +0200, Kelly Petit
> > <kelly...@a2points.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Who were Judith's parents? I have two different possibilities here:
> > >1. She's set up as the daughter of Richard III of Normandy and Adelheid
> > >2. She's set up as the daughter of Eleanor of Normandy (Richard I's
> > >daughter) and Baudin IV of Flandern.
> > >
> > >I thought the second solution was the right one, but now I don't know
> > >any longer.
> > >Can anyone help me here?
> >
> > This is discussed in Freeman's History of the Norman Conquest of
> > England, vol. 3, pp. 663-5, where he concludes that Judith was the
> > daughter of Baldwin IV by a daughter of Richard II of Normandy. The
> > principle primary sources cited (among other, later ones) are the
> > nearly contemporary Vita Ędwardi (a life of Edward the Confessor),
Gryphon801
Countess Judith in Schwaebische Lebensbilder 6:16 (1957) on Judith's parentage.
I do not have access to this journal but Decker-Hauff has a good reputation in
the field. If he is right, then Countess Judith was a half-sister of Matilda,
wife of William the Conqueror. I'd be interested to know what authorities
Decker-Hauff relies on. Older authorities, even ES 2:9 (1953), say that Judith
was a daughter of Baldwin IV of Flanders by a second wife, daughter of Richard
II of Normandy - apparently she remains a grand-daughter of Richard II but in a
different way.