Arundell of Lanherne 1 of 4
Louise Staley
Dear Group,
Recently I received an extract from "Genealogical Collections Illustrating
the History of Roman Catholic Families of England Based on the Lawson
Manuscript," edited by J.J.Howard and H.S.Hughes, Part III Arundell. As
this work does not appear to have been previously cited on SGM and due to
the ongoing interest in the early generations of the Arundells of Lanherne
I am posting a comparison between this new reference, the Cornwall
Visitation and the introduction to the Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
Archive held at the Cornwall Records Office and extracted on A2A.
The three pedigrees differ in significant ways. Below are the generations
starting with the first documented Arundell, Remfrey.
Visitation of Cornwall (Vis Con)
1. Renfrey Arundell = Alice da. and h. of Sir John Lanherne (she m2. John
Umfraville)
2. Sir Ralph Arundell = Eva da. of Sir Richard Rupe
3. omitted generation
4. Sir John [A] Arundell = Joane da. and h. of Ralph Soor of Tolverne
5. omitted generation
6. Sir John [B] Arundell = Elizabeth da. and coh. of Sir Oliver Carminow
7. John [C] Arundell = Joane da. and coh. of Sir William Luscote
8. Sir John [D] Arundell = Annora da. and coh. Sir Wiliam Lambourne
9. John [E] Arundell = Margaret da. and coh. of Sir John Burghersh
Genealogical Collections Illustrating the History of Roman Catholic
Families of England Based on the Lawson Manuscript (Gen Coll)
1. Sir Renfred Arundell
2. Sir Ralph Arundell = Eva da. and coh. Richard Rupe
3. Renfred Arundell = Alice da. John Lanherne (she m2. John Umfraville)
4. John I Arundell = Joan da. and coh. John le Soor of Tolverne
5. Sir John II Arundell = Isabella da. and h. of John Bere of Tolverne
6. Sir John III Arundell = 1. Elizabeth da. and coh. of Sir Oliver
Carminow (2. Isabella da. of Sir Thomas Multon)
7. Sir John IV Arundell = Joan da. and coh. of Sir William Luscote (she
m2. Sir William Lambourne)
8. Sir John V Arundell = Annora da. of Sir William Lambourne
9. John VI Arundell = Margaret da. and coh. of Sir John Burghersh
Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice Archive (Wardour Muniments)
1. Remfrey Arundell = ? Maud
2. Ralph Arundell = Eve da. of Sir Richard Rupe
3. Remfrey Arundell = Alice Lanherne (she m2. John Umfraville)
4. John [1] Arundell = Joan da. and h. of Ralph Soor
5. Sir John [2] Arundell
6. Sir John [3] Arundell = 1. Elizabeth Carminow (2. Isabel da. of Sir
Thomas Multon)
7. Sir John [4] Arundell = Joan Luscote (she m2. Sir William Lambourne)
8. Sir John [5] Arundell = Annora Lambourne
9. John of Bideford Arundell
Discussion of these pedigrees will follow in subsequent posts.
Regards,
Louise
--
Quod dixi dixi
Louise Staley
DISCUSSION
---Generation 1---
Vis Con cites Ped. Fin. 52 Hen. III, No. 3. [1268] as a suit between the
Dean and Chapter of Exter and Rainfrid de Arundell and Alice his wife. Vis
Con also cites scutage accounts from 31 Edw. I [1303] where Alice's second
husband, John Umfraville, "held one great fee in Lanherne, value 40s., in
right of his wife."
Gen Coll cites an undated deed (reproduced in the text) which says "Ego
Reynfric de Arundel confirmavi Odoni de Arundel filio meo vnam dimidian
acram t're in Thougeneb." Another deed names Renfrey Arundell and Ralph
his son, and Evoca, the wife of the latter.
Wardour places Remrey at the head of the pedigree as active 1230 - 1250
and in possession of Treloy Manor about 1230. The identification of his
wife as Maud is accompanied by a query.
All pedigrees agree that Remfrey is the father of Ralph. The disagreement
occurs as to the wife of this Remfrey with Vis Con making her Alice
Lanherne and Wardour suggesting she was named Maud. Wardour says Ralph
married Eva Rupe 1242-1245 and was Sheriff of Cornwall in 1259-60 and died
late in 1275. Given the scutage accounts cited by Vis Con for Alice's
second husband are dated 1303, it would appear the Renfrey who married
Alice Lanherne belongs to a generation after that of Ralph and Eva.
Wardour holds evidence that John Umfraville, Alice's second husband did
not die until about 1322 adding further weight to the Gen Coll and Wardour
placement.
---Generation 2---
All sources agree that Ralph Arundell was son of Renfrey and that this
Ralph married Eva da. of Sir Richard Rupe. This Ralph died late 1275
(Wardour).
In Gen Coll, Alice Lanherne is shown as a daughter of John Lanherne and
Margery Pincerna.
It has this to say about Margery Pincerna and her daughter, Alice.
"Alice, da. of John de Lanhern by Margerie his wife, da. and heiress of
Richard Fitz John. Living 30 Edw. I (1301-2). Styled Alice da la Hurne,
Lady of Conorton, in a writ of quo warranto 12 Edw. I (1283-4), by which
she claimed assize of bread, etc. in her manor of Connerton. Married to
her second husband before 19 Edw. I. (1290-1). The marriage settlement of
John de la Hurne with Margerie, da. And heiress of Richard fitz John of
Connerton, is among the Wardour Muniments." P. 221.
The settlement referred to above appears in the A2A and is extracted below.
Creation dates: [13th century; c.1240?]
Gift in free marriage
Richard son of John = (1)
John de La Herne = (2)
(1), in free marriage with Margery his daughter, to (2), all the land of
Walcumb' with appurtenances;... ('ad...dendum') for 1/3rd knight's fee;
for (2) and his heirs by Margery to hold of (1) for ever. Rent 60s
(s..xaginta sol') yearly at 4 terms (10s at Christmas, Easter and Nativity
of St John Baptist, and 30s at Michaelmas), for all service except royal
service. Warranty.
Witnesses: Sir Gervase de Horniacot', Sir Robert son of William, Sir
Laurence [?] son of Richard, Sir Randulf de Trewrth', Sir Adam de Fenton',
William Pedeleur'.
A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/1/1 - AR/1/527], CONNERTON MANOR: AR/1/103
Connerton manor had been granted by Henry II to Richard Pincerna and a
copy of the grant appears in the Arundell archive at Cornwall and in A2A,
also extracted below.
Henry' Rex Angl' Dux Norman' & Acquietan' & Comes Androg' Ep'o Exon &
Iustic' & Baronibus & Vic' & ministris & fidelibus suis Franc' & Angl' &
Wallens' & Cornub' & Devon' salutem: sciatis me concessisse & confirmasse
Ric' Pincerne & her' suis manerium de Conerton quod Robertus filius
Comitis Glocestr' cognatus meus ei dedit pro servicio suo; quare volo &
firmiter precipio quod ipse Ricardus & her' sui illud manerium habeant &
teneant per servic' unius militis de predicto Roberto fil' Comitis & de
her' suis cum omnibus libertatibus & liberis cons' suis & acquiet' eidem
manerio pertinent', in bosco in planis in pratis & pastur' in aquis &
molend' in viis & semitis in hundr' & in omnibus rebus & in omnibus locis,
ita bene & in pace & libere & quiete & honore sicut unquam Robertus filius
Edmundi vel Comes Robertus avunculus meus manerium illud melius libere
quiete & honorificemus [sic] tenuit tempore Regis Henr' avi mei, et sicut
carta predicti Roberti fil' comitis Glocestr' testatur; preterea concedo
eidem Ricardo her' suis omnes alias terras & tenuras suas de quacunque eas
rationabiliter habeant, ita libere sicut ego unquam habui & tenui. Hiis
testibus &c.
A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/17 - AR/50], FAMILY TRUSTS: AR/20/1
The grant of Connerton by Henry II was confirmed by his daughter, Mabel
(of Gloucester) Champernoun to John, son of Richard around 1200.
Creation dates: [c.1200; translation c.1800]
Translation of confirmation of gift
Mabel, daughter of Robert, son of the Earl of Gloucester = (1)
John, son of Richard Pincerne = (2)
Consideration: 30 silver marks and one caparisoned horse of value of two
marks.
(1) to (2), the manor of Connerton, excepting Penburn and Lugan, lands
granted by father of (1) [details given], and service of Philip de Caul,
Alfred de Trevitho and Enoch.
A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/17 - AR/50], FAMILY TRUSTS: AR/1/101
In about 1240, Richard, son of John, marries his daughter Margery to John
Lanherne. John and Margery have a single daughter and heiress, Alice
Lanherne, who marries Renfrey Arundell between 1265 and 1268. Renfrey
Arundell dies in 1280 and Alice remarries to John Umfreville. Alice dies
between 1302 and 1311 but her second husband doesn't die until as late as
1322 and it is only then the Arundells gain possession of her vast
inheritance which included Connerton and Lanherne manors and the Hundred
of Penwith. By this stage Renfrey and Alice's son John is dead so it is
their grandson John II who inherits. This land stays in Arundell hands
until the seventeenth century.
If anyone can throw any light on who Richard Pincerna was it would be
appreciated.
--
Quod dixi dixi
Louise Staley
DISCUSSION CONTINUED
---Generation 3---
Vis Con omits this generation.
Gen Coll says Renfred Arundell and Alice Lanherne were married before 1268
and he was dead before 14 December 1280. Gen Coll cites a writ of quo
warranto 12 Edw. I [1284] where Alice is holding Connerton Manor. She
married John Ummfraville before 1291.
Wardour also places Remfrey Arundell and Alice Lanherne at this point in
the pedigree although with less certainty that Gen Coll. Wardour states
"the sole evidence that he was Ralph's son is that Odo his brother and
executor in 1281 was son of Eve." However Wardour is much more certain
that Remfrey married Alice Lanherne who subsequently married John
Umfraville. As a result of the Lanherne marriage the Arundells inherited
Connerton manor, the Hundred of Penwith, Lanherne manor, land in St Columb
Major and, in Devon, the manors of Morchard Arundell and Uton Arundell
which they took possession of between 1311 and 1322 when John Umfraville
died.
---Generation 4---
All sources agree this is the first of the John Arundells and that he
married Joan Soor. John Arundell was underage and in ward to his
grandmother Eva Rupe in 1284 and died between 1300 and 1309 when his son
was in wardship to the Bishop of Exeter.
Vis Con and Wardour make her the daughter and heiress of Ralph Soor
whereas Gen Coll makes her the daughter of John Soor. Gen Coll notes "the
charters of the Sor family at Wardour give no proof of this marriage. In
1340 [sic] Rosea, wife of John le Sor by her will, s.d., gave her goods to
her daughters Joan, Isabella, Margaret, Joan and Alice."
The will mentioned in Gen Coll is extracted in the A2A catalogue of the
Wardour Muniments.
Reference: AR/46/6
Creation dates: [1342], Sunday 4th Aug
(Sunday after St Peter's Chains), 1st hour
Last will and testament
Rose wife of John le Soor de Taluren = (1)
Testament in which (1) leaves her soul to God and her body to holy burial;
and all goods concerning her portion she leaves as a subsidy for the
marriages of her daughters Joan, Isabel, Margaret, Joan and Alice; she
appoints John le Soor, her lord and husband, as executor, and whomever
else he shall choose.
Note
Rose, daughter of Geoffrey Pridias, wife of John son of John Sor, died
13th Aug 1342 according to Chiverton's Obits (Devon and Cornwall Notes and
Queries. 33 [1977], 337). See also Feet of Fines 532, which shows them
alive and married in 1335.
The problem with this will as evidence that Joan Soor was a daughter of
John Soor and Rosea Pridias is that John Arundell died 1306-09 (Wardour)
yet Rosea's will of 1342 suggests her daughters were unmarried then.
Vis Con and Gen Coll cite Ped. Fin. 8 Edw. III [1334], Div. Co. Lig. 1,
No. 151 for Joan Soor having held Morchard Manor in dower. Vis Con
interprets the fine as showing she is till alive in 1334 but Gen Coll
suggests she was dead by then. The fine appears in the A2A catalogue and
shows Joan was still alive in 1334.
AR/20/1: 1334, Michaelmas term. "They also granted, for themselves and
[John de Aldestowe's] heirs, that the manor of Morchard (which Joan who
was wife of John Darrundell holds for term of her life), the manor of
Trembleith, 1/3rd of the manor of Treloy, the land, rush-beds, heath,
rent, 1/3rd of a mill and garden and 1/3rd of the manor of Conerton,
currently held by Joan in dower of [John de Aldestowe's]'s inheritance and
due to revert to [Ralph Arundell and John de Aldestowe] and [John de
Aldestowe's] heirs after her death, shall wholly remain to [Sir John
Arundell] after her death."
None of the land held by Joan in dower is from the Soor inheritance.
The Soor inheritance of Tolverne and Prospidnick Manors was not held by
the Arundells until the early 15th century, 70 years after Joan Soor was
last known to be alive. The timing of the inheritance suggests it may have
come through the Lambournes (generation 8) rather than straight from the
Soors.
From the dates it seems as if John Soor and Rosea Pridias can be ruled out
as the parents of Joan. The more important question is was she a Soor at
all? Does anyone have evidence to support this?
--
Quod dixi dixi
Louise Staley
DISCUSSION CONTINUED
---Generation 5---
Vis Con omits this generation.
Gen Coll says Sir John II Arundell was in ward to the Bishop of Exeter in
1310 and that his uncle Ralf Arundell had his wardship in 1317. Although
the same document says he granted lands to his Uncle Benedict Arundell in
1314. In 1334 he settled lands on his son John at the time of John's
marriage to Elizabeth Carminow (see fine above in generation 4). Gen Coll
lists, without supporting evidence, that this Sir John's wife was
Isabella, da. and heir of John de la Bere of Tolverne.
Wardour says John II inherited the Lanherne lands between 1311 and 1322
and was knighted by July 1334. Wardour does not assign a wife to this Sir
John.
---Generation 6---
All three sources agree that Sir John III Arundell married Elizabeth,
daughter and eventual coheiress of Sir Oliver Carminow. He was born after
1309 (underage and in ward to the Bishop of Exeter 1329-30) (Gen Coll),
knighted by 1371 (Wardour) and died between October 1374 and February 1376
(Wardour) although Gen Coll says he "drown'd with 1000 more going for
France 1 Ric. II, 1377" and cites Segar's Baronagium. Elizabeth Carminow
died 1354.
On the marriage of John III Arundell to his second wife, Isabella Multon,
in 1371 John III "settled the manor of Lanherne upon trust for his heirs
begotten on the body of Isabella da. of Sir Thomas Multon, Knt., with
remainder to the heirs of John [IV], son of Sir John Arundel (the
grantor), remainder to Oliver St. John [grandson of John III by an unnamed
daughter], remainder to John his son, remainder to the heirs of the said
John St. John on the body of Elizabeth de la Bere, remainder to Margaret
(the grantor's da.), wife of Reginald Bevyle, remainder to Ralf Sor,
remainder to John Colyn of Lanarte, and his issue by Rosie, da. of Sir
John Arundel." Gen Coll p. 221. (square brackets added).
This grant settles the manor of Lanherne on John III's heirs by his second
wife (of which there were none, nor very likely to be as he was over 60
when he married her), then to the heirs of his son John IV, then to the
heirs of an unnamed daughter, then to the heirs of his daughter Margaret,
then to Ralph le Soor, then to the heirs of a third daughter Rosie. This
Ralph le Soor cannot be the supposed father of Joan who married John I
Arundell about 1290 as that Ralph would have been dead for probably 70
years. However it does demonstrate a Soor/Arundell link which is otherwise
unexplained in this generation.
---Generation 7---
Again all sources are in agreement that Sir John IV Arundell married Joan,
daughter of Sir William Luscote. Sir John IV Arundell died before 5th
November 1376 v.p., his wife survived him. Joan Luscote married as her
second husband Sir William Lambourne before 23 July 1394. Her IPM survives
as C.I.P.M. 29 Edw. III, No. 31.
Crucially, Sir William Lambourne was first married to Joan, daughter and
heiress of Ralph Soor of Tolverne and Joan Lansladron (Gen Coll citing
Brook's Collections, No. 89). Sir William Lambourne and Joan Soor were the
parents of Annora Lambourne, the wife of Sir John V Arundell. Sir William
Lambourne died before 1407 when the Arundells inherited the Devonshire
manors of Battishorne, Darracott, Gratton, Loddiswell, Ideford, and
Spreacombe and land in Buckland Dinham and Luscott from the Luscote
inheritance. It was around this time that the Arundells also gained
possession of the Soor manors and the Lambourne inheritance of the manors
of Goran, Lambourn, Lanhadron, Penwerris and Tregarne Condurrow.
Traditionally the Soor inheritance is thought to have come directly
through Joan Soor, wife of John I Arundell, however there appears to be no
evidence cited by any of the sources that this was the case. It appears
possible that the Soor inheritance actually came through the Lambourne
line.
---Generation 8---
The three sources agree that Sir John V Arundell married Annora Lambourne,
daughter of Sir William Lambourne. Sir John V Arundell was born about 1366
(Wardour) and died 11 January 1435. Annora had died in January 1406. Sir
John V Arundell was knighted in 1399. He was known as Sir John the
Magnificent, no doubt partly as a result of inheriting at least 15 manors
and other lands. (See generation 7 for discussion of her parents).
---Generation 9---
John VI Arundell, known as John of Bideford Arundell in the Wardour
Muniments died 4 December 1423 v.p. (Gen Coll). Vis Con and Gen Col assign
Margaret daughter and coheiress of Sir John Burghersh as the wife of this
John. Wardour does not provide a wife. She was aged 30 years and more on
the death of her mother, Ismena Hanham, on 9 September 1420 and is named
in John VI Arundell's IPM (2 Hen. VI, No. 29). Margaret had previously
been married to John Grenville who had died late in 1411 s.p. Margaret and
her sister Maud, wife of Thomas Chaucer were involved in protracted
litigation with their husbands over the Burghersh inheritance.
The three sources consulted agree on the Arundell descent, at least in the
main line, after this generation. There remain outstanding issues with
some of the collateral branches and daughters however this is outside the
scope of this post.
Regards,
Louise
---
Quod dixi dixi
Ginny Wagner
appreciated.>
Is it possible that the Richard you are looking for might be Richard de
Lucy, the justicar or pincerna to King Henry II?
Ginny Wagner
Louise Staley
<snip>
> Connerton manor had been granted by Henry II to Richard Pincerna and a
> copy of the grant appears in the Arundell archive at Cornwall and in
> A2A, also extracted below.
>
> Henry' Rex Angl' Dux Norman' & Acquietan' & Comes Androg' Ep'o Exon &
> Iustic' & Baronibus & Vic' & ministris & fidelibus suis Franc' & Angl' &
> Wallens' & Cornub' & Devon' salutem: sciatis me concessisse &
> confirmasse Ric' Pincerne & her' suis manerium de Conerton quod Robertus
> filius Comitis Glocestr' cognatus meus ei dedit pro servicio suo
> [AR/17 - AR/50], FAMILY TRUSTS: AR/20/1
>
> If anyone can throw any light on who Richard Pincerna was it would be
> appreciated.
>
It has been helpfully pointed out to me that the grant above is not from
Henry II but from Robert of Gloucester and confirmed by Henry II.
"Let it be known that I have allowed and confirmed to Richard Pincerna and
his heirs the manor of Connerton which Robert son of the earl of
Gloucester, my kinsman, gave him for his service."
This would suggest that Richard Pincerna was butler to Robert of
Gloucester rather than to Henry II. From the grant above and the
confirmation by Robert's daughter we know Connerton descended:
1. Richard Pincerna - butler to Robert of Gloucester, granted Connerton
before 1183
2. John Pincerna, Lord of Connerton, had grant confirmed about 1200
3. Richard Pincerna, Lord of Connerton
4. Margery Pincerna, heiress of Connerton and wife of John Lanherne,
married about 1240
5. Alice Lanherne, heiress of Connerton and wife of Renfrey Arundell,
married about 1267
Ginny Wagner's suggestion that Richard Pincerna could be Richard Lucy
would be a neat solution however it would seem that we are looking for
Robert of Gloucester's butler rather than Henry II's and also the Lucy
line runs Richard, Geoffrey, Richard rather than the required Richard,
John, Richard.
Louise Staley
---POST 2 of 4---
DISCUSSION
Connerton manor had been granted by Henry II to Richard Pincerna and a
copy of the grant appears in the Arundell archive at Cornwall and in A2A,
also extracted below.
Henry' Rex Angl' Dux Norman' & Acquietan' & Comes Androg' Ep'o Exon &
Iustic' & Baronibus & Vic' & ministris & fidelibus suis Franc' & Angl' &
Wallens' & Cornub' & Devon' salutem: sciatis me concessisse & confirmasse
Ric' Pincerne & her' suis manerium de Conerton quod Robertus filius
Comitis Glocestr' cognatus meus ei dedit pro servicio suo; quare volo &
firmiter precipio quod ipse Ricardus & her' sui illud manerium habeant &
teneant per servic' unius militis de predicto Roberto fil' Comitis & de
her' suis cum omnibus libertatibus & liberis cons' suis & acquiet' eidem
manerio pertinent', in bosco in planis in pratis & pastur' in aquis &
molend' in viis & semitis in hundr' & in omnibus rebus & in omnibus locis,
ita bene & in pace & libere & quiete & honore sicut unquam Robertus filius
Edmundi vel Comes Robertus avunculus meus manerium illud melius libere
quiete & honorificemus [sic] tenuit tempore Regis Henr' avi mei, et sicut
carta predicti Roberti fil' comitis Glocestr' testatur; preterea concedo
eidem Ricardo her' suis omnes alias terras & tenuras suas de quacunque eas
rationabiliter habeant, ita libere sicut ego unquam habui & tenui. Hiis
testibus &c.
A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/17 - AR/50], FAMILY TRUSTS: AR/20/1
The grant of Connerton by Henry II was confirmed by his daughter, Mabel
(of Gloucester) Champernoun to John, son of Richard around 1200.
Creation dates: [c.1200; translation c.1800]
Translation of confirmation of gift
Mabel, daughter of Robert, son of the Earl of Gloucester = (1)
John, son of Richard Pincerne = (2)
Consideration: 30 silver marks and one caparisoned horse of value of two
marks.
(1) to (2), the manor of Connerton, excepting Penburn and Lugan, lands
granted by father of (1) [details given], and service of Philip de Caul,
Alfred de Trevitho and Enoch.
A2A, Cornwall Record Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice
[AR/17 - AR/50], FAMILY TRUSTS: AR/1/101
In about 1240, Richard, son of John, marries his daughter Margery to John
Lanherne. John and Margery have a single daughter and heiress, Alice
Lanherne, who marries Renfrey Arundell between 1265 and 1268. Renfrey
Arundell dies in 1280 and Alice remarries to John Umfreville. Alice dies
between 1302 and 1311 but her second husband doesn't die until as late as
1322 and it is only then the Arundells gain possession of her vast
inheritance which included Connerton and Lanherne manors and the Hundred
of Penwith. By this stage Renfrey and Alice's son John is dead so it is
their grandson John II who inherits. This land stays in Arundell hands
until the seventeenth century.
If anyone can throw any light on who Richard Pincerna was it would be
appreciated.
--
Quod dixi dixi
Peter Stewart
"Louise Staley" <car...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:opsjm5rf...@news.bigpond.com...
<chomp>
> If anyone can throw any light on who Richard Pincerna was it would be
> appreciated.
I don't think his origin has ever been traced - from memory John Pym Yeatman
in _The Early Genealogical History of the House of Arundel_ (London, 1882)
treid to make him a younger son of the king's pincerna William d'Aubigny,
earl of Arundel & the dowager queen Adeliza, but this is no more sensible
than many other conjectures in that foolish book - the guiding notion being
that all Arundels must be connected to each other and decended as grandly as
possible, so that any even a provincial functionary in the household of a
royal bastard should be linked as closely as dates allow to the greatest
contemporary holder of the office of pincerna.
Peter Stewart
Louise Staley
All sources cited previously in this thread agree that Sir John IV
Arundell married Joan Luscote and that she married as her second husband
Sir William Lambourne who had previously been married to another Joan (who
Gen Coll identifies as Joan Soor daughter of Ralph Soor of Tolverne and
Joan Lansladron whereas Vis Con identifies her as Joan Lansladron).
The identification of Joan Luscote as the second husband of Sir William
Lambourne appears to have come from College of Arms documents. The Wardour
Muniments have a number of references to her as Joan Luscote but these are
all later additions to the original deeds. Because this marriage was
childless perhaps less attention has been paid to it.
The second marriages become important because the daughter of Sir William
Lambourne and Joan (Soor or Lansladron), Annora Lambourne, married Sir
John V Arundell and brought with her a great inheritance.
I think it is possible that Joan Luscote did NOT marry Sir William
Lambourne but that instead Joan, heiress of Lansladron, married firstly as
his second wife Ralph Arundell of Trerice by whom she had no issue and
then as her second husband Sir William Lambourne by whom she was the
mother of Annora Lambourne. Sir William Lambourne's first wife by whom he
had no issue was Alice Penwor (AR/1/241 & AR/1/242). Ralph Arundell's
first wife and the mother of his sons was also named Joan and may have
been Joan Trerice (Vis Con). This change impacts on both the Arundell of
Lanherne and the Arundell of Trerice lines.
The manors of Lansladron and St Goran were held by the Lansladrons until
at least 1336 and perhaps as late as 1368 (AR/1/282, AR/1/291,
AR/1/259/1,2, AR/1/294). In 1369 Joan, the widow of Ralph Arundell of
Trerice holds them as well as the manor of Trerice, "Joan who was wife of
Ralph Darundell de Treres to Sir John Arundell, knight , a yearly rent of
£20, to be received from Joan's manors of Nansladron, Senct Goran,
Geueylymur and all her messuages, lands and tenements in the vills of
Treres,..." (AR/1/846). I think she was the heir to Lansladron and St
Goran and held Trerice in dower. Five years later they are held by Sir
William Lambourne by right of his wife Joan (AR/1/261, AR/1/262). Also
from 1370 to 1384 Sir William Lambourne signs a number of deeds at
Trerice, suggesting he was living there, again this would be in right of
his wife (AR/16/4, AR/1/979). In 1394 Sir John V Arundell is concerned his
father-in-law will dispose of the inheritance he is expecting from his
wife Annora Lambourne so they go to arbitration (AR/17/1,2). By 1435
Lansladron and St. Goran are held by the Arundells of Lanherne as part of
the Lambourne inheritance. Trerice is held by the Arundells of Trerice,
presumably, although no evidence has been found, from after the death of
Sir William Lambourne after 1405 (AR/1/246).
There is one other piece of evidence that may be relevant. In 1377 Sir
William Lambourne and Joan his wife abducted Nicholas, son and heir of
Ralph Arundell of Trerice, a minor in ward of John Tynton (Cor. Reg.
Conw., 50 Edw. III, Trin. m. 120). If the construction above is correct
then Joan kidnapped her step-son from her first marriage, perhaps with a
view to marrying him to her very young daughter, Annora, by her second
husband.
Based on records in the A2A the Lansladron line seems to be as follows:
1. Geoffrey Lansladron (fl. 1199-1216)
2. Hervey Lansladron
3. Richard Lansladron
4. Odo Lansladron (d. bef. 1292)
5. William Lansladron, 3rd son (d. aft. 1329) m. Idonia (AR/1/259/1)
6. John Lansladron (b. bef. 1315, d. bet. 1336-1368) m.1 unknown, m2.
Amice (d. aft. 1376)
7. Joan Lansladron (d. aft. 1394) m.1 Ralph Arundell of Trerice (d. 1369),
m.2 Sir William 8. Lambourne (b. bef. 1330, d. aft. 1405)
9. Annora Lambourne (d. after 1431) m. Sir John V Arundell of Lanherne (b.
abt. 1368, d. 1435)
The one outstanding item is whether Joan (wife of Ralph Arundell of
Trerice and Sir William Lambourne) was a Lansladron or a le Soor. There is
a 33 year gap in the records between when John, the last known Lansladron
held them and when Joan, widow of Ralph Arundell did. There is no evidence
that Joan was a daughter of John so she may have been his granddaughter
and John's daughter Joan Lansladron married Ralph le Soor as indicated in
Gen Coll. Alternatively there may have been two John Lansladrons since
Amice/Amity widow of John Lansladron was alive in 1377 and her husband
John may have been alive as late as 1368. By the way, I don't think Amice
is the mother/grandmother of Joan (see AR/1/261 where Sir William
Lambourne and Joan his wife bring suit against "Amity who was wife of John
de Nansladron" claiming she has more in dower than she should have).