Two Ralph de Vernons

[Robert S Baxter]

I. In Ormerod, Ralph de Vernon of Shipbrooke, the old liver (said to have
lived 150 years, which I doubt)occurred 1286-1326, bastard son of the
priest, Ralph de Vernon, married 1. Mary Dacre and had a son Ralph, jun.;
liason with 2. Maud Grosvernor (may have married after first child). A son
Robert of this liason occurred 1323-1326.

II. Also Ralph de Vernon of Shipbrooke, occurred 1307-1313, married Matilda
de Hatton. There is no indication of this second Ralph's father. He had a
son Robert who occured 1320-1326 and died before 1332

He looks to be identical with the old liver above, especially since both had
sons Robert who were contemporary.

Any thoughts.

Thanks,

Bob Baxter

[Sutliff]

The first Ralph is well documented. However, could you please provide an
exact citation in Ormerod as to your second Ralph? Ormerod is not without
errors and this could be one of them. Thanks.

Henry Sutliff

"Robert S Baxter" <rsba...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:PDENJIDJFCOIMMNKHK...@bellsouth.net...

[Robert S Baxter]

The second Ralph de Vernon appears in Hatton, Vernon, and Dutton of Hatton
on p. 795, Vol II.

Bob

[Luke Potter]

Besides the Shipbrook line, there were two cousins called Ralph de Vernons
alive in the 1230s, one of whom was son of Everard (Gerard) de Vernon, and
the other was son of Everard's elder brother Godfrey de Vernon. Both Godfrey
and Everard held land in Elm, Cambrigeshire. These two brothers were in turn
sons of another Ralph de Vernon. This Ralph may have been a younger son of
the Vernons of Chinnor & Sydenham, Oxfordshire, and Croxton, Cambridgeshire,
but I have not yet found any firm evidence to support this.

As for the Sipbrook branch, the first Ralph was son of Warin de Vernon and
Auda Malabank. It was this Ralph who married Cecily, but his eldest son has
traditionally been said to have been illegitimate, and perhaps it was only
his sisters Eustachia, Margery and Rose, who were the daughters of Cecily.
Ralph was dead by 1251, and the last reference I have come across which
refers to Cecily is dated to June 1288.

Ralph's son Ralph is the one traditionally described as 'the Old', but in
reality he was probably only in his 90s when he died. He would have been
born in the early 1230s, as he was underage in 1251 when his wardship was
granted firstly to Guy de Lusignan, and then secondly to John le Fraunceys.
He was of full age however by 1255 when he was exchanging land in
Oxfordshire. The last mention I have of him is in the summer of 1329. It was
this Ralph who is traditionally said to have married Mary Dacres, but again
I cannot find any contemporary evidence to substantiate this.

His eldest son was Ralph who married Margery Hatton, and this Ralph died in
about 1319. The eldest son of Ralph and Margery was another Ralph, and their
grandson was yet another Ralph who married Agnes D'Amory. On the death of
this last Ralph without heirs, the Shipbrook estate passed to Richard de
Vernon, a bastard son of Ralph son of Ralph the old, and to confuse things
further Richard decided to name his eldest son Ralph too. The younger
brother, and eventual heir, of this Ralph was Richard Vernon who was
beheaded after Shrewsbury in 1403.

Luke

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