Griffith - Willoughby - Somerville (from older post)
R. Battle
Are you sure that Alice, wife of Edmund Willoughby (d. 1414), was the
heiress who brought Cossington into the Willoughby family? If the
Willoughbby ownership of that land was not attested until later perhaps it
came into the Willoughby family via the marriage of Sir Robert Willoughby
of Wollaton to Margaret Griffith (daughter of Sir John Griffith of Wichnor
[d. 1471]), herself a Somerville descendant.
-Robert Battle
*************************
I have:
++++
Sir EDMUND WILLOUGHBY, Kt., of Wollaton, Notts., M Alice Somerville,
heiress of Cossington & Hamilton, Leics.
Died 1414. He had issue: Payling,
p 242 HSP Notts I, p 145
++++
I am having trouble placing "Alice Somerville", and indeed wonder if she
was a Somerville at all. Payling calls her "heiress of Cossington", but
does not show the specific connection with the Somerville family which
owned Cossington.
The Willoughbys of Wollaton held Cossington in Leicestershire, thereby
strongly suggesting such a connection.
The last Somerville was, however, Sir Philip Somerville (d 1355). He held
Cossington, although his main property was Whichnor in Staffordshire. Sir
Philp had, according to Stebbing Shaw, only two daughters & no sons.
[snip]
--
Robert O'Connor
roco...@es.co.nz
Christchurch
New Zealand
R. Battle
According to the pedigrees of Willoughby of Wollaton in /Transactions of
the Thoroton Society/ (vol. VI - 1902 - supplement) and Thoroton's /The
Antiquities of Nottinghamshire/ (republished 1972; vol. 2 pp. 208-213) the
wife of this Edmund was a daughter of Sir Richard Pole.
One other point of interest is the reference to "Isabel, kinswoman and
heir of Alexander de Somervill," in Sir Philip de Somervill[e]'s IPM
(1355 vol. X, Edward III, p. 220) as possessed of a moiety of a knight's
fee in Cosynton [Cossington], Leicester. Her surname is not given, so she
could conceivably be the wife of EITHER Edmund (father or son). Perhaps
she was the Cossington heiress.
-Robert Battle
R. Battle
> One more think--are you sure that Edmund's wife was an Alice Somerville?
THING, that is. I guess I *should* have taken "one more think." Oh,
well.
Robert O'Connor
My source for the marriage of Sir Edmund Willoughby d 1414 to Alice
Somerville is Paylings modern work entitled 'Political Society in
Lancashire England, The Greater Gentry of Nottinghamshire', Clarendon
Press, Oxford, 1991.
I have not encountered the Thoroton Society material to which you refer.
Does that reference give any detail on Sir Richard Pole and his origins.
I think that the reference to Isabel kinswoman and heir of Alexander de
Somerville is probably the same Isabel who married Willoughby. Thank you
for the lead.
--
Robert O'Connor
roco...@es.co.nz
Christchurch
New Zealand
R. Battle <bat...@u.washington.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.A41.4.10.991129...@dante19.u.washington.edu>...
One more think--are you sure that Edmund's wife was an Alice Somerville?
R. Battle
>
> My source for the marriage of Sir Edmund Willoughby d 1414 to Alice
> Somerville is Paylings modern work entitled 'Political Society in
> Lancashire England, The Greater Gentry of Nottinghamshire', Clarendon
> Press, Oxford, 1991.
>
> I have not encountered the Thoroton Society material to which you refer.
> Does that reference give any detail on Sir Richard Pole and his origins.
>
Only the /Transactions of the Thoroton Society/ citation is actually from
the Thoroton Society. The other citation refers to the work of Robert
Thoroton, an early (late 18th century) Nottinghamshire antiquarian (after
whom the Society was named). I think that the /Transactions/ genealogy
took its material from Thoroton's book (neither really provide sources).
In any case, this is what the latter has to say about the Willoughby-Pole
connection (p. 211):
"...Sir Edmund Willoughby, son of Sir Richard the Judge by another wife,
who at the death of his brother Hugh, 7 H. 4 was about sixty years old,
and had livery, 18 Septemb. that year of this Mannor [Wollaton] and
/Bradmere/, three Mess. and seven Bovats in /Carleton/, &c. his wife was
the daughter of Sir Richard Pole of /Suffolk/, by whom he had a son of his
own name Edmund, who took to wife Isabell, the daughter of Sir Hugh
Annesley, Knight...."
I don't know anything else about this Richard Pole.
> I think that the reference to Isabel kinswoman and heir of Alexander de
> Somerville is probably the same Isabel who married Willoughby. Thank you
> for the lead.
I think it's at least worth checking. Do you know who Hugh Annesley
married? Also, it is not clear from the IPM whether Isabel is the
"kinswoman" of this Alexander de Somerville or of Sir Philip de Somerville
himself. She was certainly the heir of Alexander (and probably the
kinswoman of both Somervilles), but perhaps a stronger relationship than
mere "kin" existed between Alexander and Isabel.
-Robert Battle
Colin Bevan
the Annesleys
I can answer some of your questions but not knowing the time frame involved
these are guesses.
Sir Hugh Annesley (AKA Hugh Thomas), son of Sir Thomas Annesley and Agnes de
Clifton, was married to Benedicta Babington, daughter of Sir John Babington
(1350-1409) and Benedicta Ward, daughter of Sir Simon Ward.
They had a daughter Isabel who presumably married your Edmund Willoughby.
(Don't have references for this)
The de la Poles were Earls and later Dukes of Suffolk, though I am not sure
which Richard you are referring to. They were very influential in the time
of King Richard III - John de la Pole married Elizabeth Plantagenet, sister
of Edward IV and Richard III. Being Yorkists they consequently suffered a
decline under Lancastrian rule.
Unfortunately I don't know of any Somerville connections with these
families.
Cheers
Rosie
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert O'Connor <roco...@es.co.nz>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: Griffith - Willoughby - Somerville (from older post)
> Thank you for the very interesting Willoughby & Somerville posts
>
> My source for the marriage of Sir Edmund Willoughby d 1414 to Alice
> Somerville is Paylings modern work entitled 'Political Society in
> Lancashire England, The Greater Gentry of Nottinghamshire', Clarendon
> Press, Oxford, 1991.
>
> I have not encountered the Thoroton Society material to which you refer.
> Does that reference give any detail on Sir Richard Pole and his origins.
>
> I think that the reference to Isabel kinswoman and heir of Alexander de
> Somerville is probably the same Isabel who married Willoughby. Thank you
> for the lead.
>
Robert O'Connor
Does Payling give a source for this marriage?
No