Duncan, Earl of Caithness
Lyle R. (Andy) Anderson
I have gone through several books on Scottish and
Orkney history over the last few days looking for
some clue as to who was the "Duncan, Earl of
Caithness" who married Groa, the daughter of
Thorstein the Red.
Duncan and Groa were the parents of Grelauga,
who married Thorfin I and thus the ancestors of the
later Earls of Orkney.
From time lines Duncan and Groa must have lived /
married in the later part of the 9th, or early 10th century.
Can anyone offer any advice or help identifying him
further?
Regards
Lyle R. (Andy) Anderson
New Westminster, BC, Canada
Leo van de Pas
You move amongst nice people :-)
CP X Appendix A gives the Norse predecessors of the earls of Orkney, page 6
of the Appendix gives
Thorfinn I Hausakliffer (Skull-cleaver) in 954 became sole Jarl of Orkney.
He seems to have died about 977
He married in 941 Grelod, daughter of Dungad or Duncan, Mormaer of Caithness
by Groa daughter of Thorstein the Red
Here are two footnotes, after the marriage year it refers to
SP vol ii page 314, presumably the Scots Peerage to which I do not have
access. By Thorstein the Red is a footnote :
he married Thorida, daughter of Eyvind Austmann, the Easterling, by
Rafertach, daughter of Cearbhall MacDunghal, King of Ossory and King of
Dublin.
Return to Thorfinn I, he and Grelod had issue Arnfinn, Havard, Hlodve, Liot
and Skuli.
Sadly, in CP Volume II page 473 the Caithness entry starts with another
Thorfinn, Jarl of Orkney who, about 1030, became Earl of Caithness. This
means Duncar the Mormaer of Caithness is not mentioned here. Perhaps someone
with access to the Scottish Peerage has more success.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Tim Powys-Lybbe
leov...@iinet.net.au (Leo van de Pas) wrote:
> Dear Lyle,
> You move amongst nice people :-)
> CP X Appendix A gives the Norse predecessors of the earls of Orkney, page 6
> of the Appendix gives
>
From the CDROM of Scots peerage I intersperse what I can make of the
article on the "Ancient Earls of Caithness" Vol II, pp. 313 to 314.
The introductory paragraph says fo the Norwegian earls of Orkney: "The
held the islands of Orkney under the King of Norway, according to
Norwegian custom, by which the title of Jarl or Earl was a personal
title. They held the earldom of Caithness under the King of Scotland,
and its tenure was in accordance with the laws of Scotland"
My understanding of "personal title" is that it was not necessarily
inherited, so that the succession of jarls was not necessarily genetic.
> Thorfinn I Hausakliffer (Skull-cleaver) in 954 became sole Jarl of Orkney.
> He seems to have died about 977
> He married in 941 Grelod, daughter of Dungad or Duncan, Mormaer of Caithness
> by Groa daughter of Thorstein the Red
SP starts with:
"I. Duncan (or Dungad, Dungaide or Dungaldus) is the first on record who
held the title. His name occurs, 875, in Torfaeus's 'History of
Orkney'. He married Groa, daughter of Thorstein the Red, son of Olaf,
King of Dublin. Thorstein had crossed with Sigurd, Earl of Orkney to
Caithness and conquered the contry as far as Ross. After the death of
Sigurd, Thorstein became possess or Caithness, Sutherland, etc.
[now page 314]
"Earl Dungad had a daughter Grelod or Grelauga, married, 941, to
Thorflinn Skullsplitter, who had by her a son, Hlodver or Ludovic. He
also had other four sons, Harvard-Arsael, Liot, Skuli and Arfinn."
> Here are two footnotes, after the marriage year it refers to
> SP vol ii page 314, presumably the Scots Peerage to which I do not have
> access.
> By Thorstein the Red is a footnote :
> he married Thorida, daughter of Eyvind Austmann, the Easterling, by
> Rafertach, daughter of Cearbhall MacDunghal, King of Ossory and King of
> Dublin.
Nothing in SP in this article.
> Return to Thorfinn I, he and Grelod had issue Arnfinn, Havard, Hlodve, Liot
> and Skuli.
See above from page 314.
> Sadly, in CP Volume II page 473 the Caithness entry starts with another
> Thorfinn, Jarl of Orkney who, about 1030, became Earl of Caithness. This
> means Duncar the Mormaer of Caithness is not mentioned here. Perhaps someone
> with access to the Scottish Peerage has more success.
SP continues with its second earl:
"II. LIOT, third son of Earl Thorfinn; married Ragnald, duaghter of Eric
Bloodyaxe, who had already been married to his two brothers. Skuli, his
brother, obtained the title from the King of Scots, but was slain in an
engagement with Liot 'in the Dales of Caithness.' Liot thus became sole
Earl, but was slain by Earl Magbrad, a native chieftain, at Skitten, in
the parish of Wick. He was succeeded by
"III. THORFINN, son of Sigurd, grandson of Hlodver and his wife Audna,
daughter of Kiarval, King of ireland. His mother was a daughter of
Malcom II of Scotland. At his father's death Thorfinn was only five
years old. His grandfather having heard of Sigurd's death gave Thorflinn
Caithness and Sutherland, with the title of Earl, and men to assist him
in ruling.
"He died about 1056. Married Ingibiorg, daughter of Jarl Finn Arnason,
and had two sons:--
1. PAUL.
2. ERLEND.
His wife survived him, became the first wife of King Malcolm III,
'Cearnmor' of Scotland, and died before 1070."
This family appears to lose the earldom in each generation to an usurper
but the recover it later, over the next hundred years.
> Best wishes
> Leo van de Pas
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lyle R. (Andy) Anderson <lrand...@telus.net>
> To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 2:45 AM
> Subject: Duncan, Earl of Caithness
>
>
> > Group,
> >
> > I have gone through several books on Scottish and
> > Orkney history over the last few days looking for
> > some clue as to who was the "Duncan, Earl of
> > Caithness" who married Groa, the daughter of
> > Thorstein the Red.
> >
> > Duncan and Groa were the parents of Grelauga,
> > who married Thorfin I and thus the ancestors of the
> > later Earls of Orkney.
> >
> > From time lines Duncan and Groa must have lived /
> > married in the later part of the 9th, or early 10th century.
> >
> > Can anyone offer any advice or help identifying him
> > further?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Lyle R. (Andy) Anderson
> > New Westminster, BC, Canada
> >
> >
>
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@powys.org
For a patchwork of bygones: http://powys.org