Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Lords of Guilsfield/Wynnesbury

95 views
Skip to first unread message

Patti Metsch

unread,
Apr 26, 2005, 11:58:52 AM4/26/05
to
Can anyone comment on the accuracy of the following lineage as given by Lloyd's _Sheriffs of Montgomeryshire_ (1876):

1. Madoc ap Gwenwys [aka Madog ap Cadwgon Wenwys], Lord of Guilsfield and Broniarth

+ Arddyn, d/o Rhys ap Gryffydd

2. Ieuan ap Madoc, Lord of Guilsfield and Broniarth

+ Gwenhwyfar, d/o Gryffydd ap Alo

3. Meredydd ap Ieuan (lost his lands due to his participation in the rebellion of Owain Glen Dwry)

+ UNK

4. Jane verch Meredydd

+ Hamlet Wynnesbury, s/o John Wynnesbury, Sheriff of Shropshire 1429

5. Hamlet Wynnesbury

+ Alice, d/o Robert Corbett

Left two daughters as heirs:

6. Eleanor Wynnesbury

+Richard Acton, s/o William Acton

and

6. Alice Wynnesbury

+ Richard Littleton, s/o Thomas Westcote alias Littleton (author of the _Tenures_)

--------

#5, the son of Hamlet who succeeded at Pillaton Hall and was father of Alice, wife of Richard Littleton, is shown by most sources as William. I am aware he is interred in Penkridge Church, Staffordshire, but I have never seen the name of his wife given.

Patti Metsch

Robert O'Connor

unread,
Apr 27, 2005, 5:55:45 AM4/27/05
to
I show the Wynnesbury line thus (with references given):

HENRY WYNNESBURY, of Donnington, Salop, England., M -- . Died c. 1407. He
had issue: Refs: HoP 1386-1421, IV p 926
/
JOHN WYNNESBURY, M.P., J.P., of Pillaton, Co. Staffs. & Donnington, Salop.,
Born c. 1370. M c. July 1393 Joan (Born c. 1371 & Died 28 April 1450), d. &
heiress of William Ingleton, of Pillaton, Co. Staffs. (See INGLETON). Tax
collector for Co. Staffs., May 1398, Dec. 1402 & July 1413. J.P. for Salop,
14 March 1410 to Feb. 1416, 29 Dec. 1420 to July 1423 & 12 June 1432 until
death. He served in the retinue of the Earl of Arundel in the summer of
1415, but like his lord, returned home sick immediately after the siege of
Harfleur. M.P. for Salop, 1420 & 1432. Sheriff of Salop, 4 Nov. 1428 to 10
Feb. 1430. Escheator of Salop, 26 Nov. 1431 & 5 Nov. 1432. He was a member
of many royal commissions, between Nov. 1424 & Feb. 1441. Died after 1450.
He had issue: Refs: HoP 1386-1421, IV, p 926-7VCH Staffs V, p 119
/
HAMLET WYNNESBURY, of Pillaton, Co. Staffs. & Donnington, Salop., M --.
Died 1473. He had issue: Refs: HoP 1386-1421, IV p 927
/
WILLIAM WYNNESBURY, of Pillaton, Co. Staffs. & Donnington, Salop., M --.
Died 1502. I.P.M. He had issue: Ref: VCH Staffs V, p 119
/
ALICE WYNNESBURY, M RICHARD LITTLETON, M.P. J.P., of Pillaton Hall, Co.
Staffs. (Died 18 May 1516). Died 1 May 1528. She had issue: Refs: VCH
Staffs V, p 119; Wedgewood, p 547

None of the above references yield details of the spouses of Hamlet &
William (Hamlet?).

Robert O'Connor


Robert O'Connor

unread,
Apr 27, 2005, 5:58:34 AM4/27/05
to

""Patti Metsch"" <pme...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:001901c54a78$486c1160$f664...@pn.at.cox.net...

> Can anyone comment on the accuracy of the following lineage as given by
Lloyd's _Sheriffs of Montgomeryshire_ (1876):
>
>
>
> 1. Madoc ap Gwenwys [aka Madog ap Cadwgon Wenwys], Lord of Guilsfield and
Broniarth
>
> + Arddyn, d/o Rhys ap Gryffydd
>

Is this a reference to RHYS ap GRUFFYDD, PRINCE of DEBEUBARTH., "The Lord
Rhys", who Died 1197?

Robert O'Connor


Patti Metsch

unread,
Apr 27, 2005, 11:16:29 AM4/27/05
to
Dear Robert:

Thank you for the information. Nice to hear from you - we corresponded some
time ago concerning the Middlemore family - and, as you know, Alice
Wynnesbury is the mother of Anne Littleton who married Thomas Middlemore
(thus my interest). I have been having a very hard time finding much at all
about the Wynnesbury's, and now given a possible connection to Welsh
nobility it makes them even more interesting!

The suggestion that William (called Hamlet by Lloyd, which is surly
incorrect) Wynnesbury's wife was a Corbet(t) seems possible, given that one
of the quarterings of Sir Edward Littleton as portrayed in a window of the
Inner Temple hall included what the author _believed_ was possibly Corbet.
It is so written: "(Corbet of ...?) Argent, a raven proper, a label of three
points." See "The Quarterings of Littleton," Herald & Genealogist (1863)
1:5, p.437.

As for the wife of Hamlet being a daughter of Meredydd ap Ieuan, I was
hoping to find someone with access to "Welsh Genealogies" by Bartrum; volume
VI, apparently contains a table on the Gwenwys line. Lloyd's "Sheriff's of
Montgomeryshire" cites "Visitation of Salop," Harl. MS, 1241, fo. 36 for
this marriage.

Regards -
Patti Metsch

Patti Metsch

unread,
Apr 27, 2005, 11:26:05 AM4/27/05
to
"Robert O'Connor" <roco...@es.co.nz> wrote:

>>From Lloyd's _Sheriffs of Montgomeryshire_ (1876):


>>1. Madoc ap Gwenwys [aka Madog ap Cadwgon Wenwys], Lord of Guilsfield and
Broniarth
>>+ Arddyn, d/o Rhys ap Gryffydd

> Is this a reference to RHYS ap GRUFFYDD, PRINCE of DEBEUBARTH., "The Lord
> Rhys", who Died 1197?
>

Page 362:
"Madoc married Arddyn, daughter and heiress of Rhys, ap Griffith, ap Sir
Aron, Knight of the Holy Sepulchre, ap Bledri, Lord of Kill y Sant." Under
a footnote concerning "Griffith" he writes: "Styled 'Gruffydd y Llwydiaid ar
Gwenwys o Bowys'."

Patti Metsch

D Pk

unread,
Jun 21, 2022, 10:08:51 AM6/21/22
to
Is Robert O'Connor still around does anyone know? I think we share common Underhill ancestry and I'd love to contact him to discuss. If anyone else here is connected to Underhills / Middlemores it would be great to connect with you too - thanks
0 new messages