"Companions of The Conqueror" Myths & Wishful Thinking in Genealogy
D. Spencer Hines
WASPs [White Anglo-Saxon Protestants] --- particularly those of English or
Scottish descent --- is a marked penchant by families to associate
themselves with William the Conqueror [c.1027-1087].
I suppose in an era where most everyone in this social class was reading Sir
Walter Scott --- we all remember the plot in "Ivanhoe" --- n'est-ce pas? ---
[if not rent the film with Elizabeth Taylor, in her violet-eyed,
full-buxomed prime and Robert Taylor in the lead role] --- there was an
irresistible yearning to prove that one was a Noble and Norman. [N.B. Yes,
I *know* that Ivanhoe was a "dispossessed Saxon", but these WASP folks still
lusted after Norman status. They wanted to identify themselves with the
WINNERS, not the LOSERS at Hastings.]
What better way could a genealogical aficionado/a prove his or her family's
merit than to have a "Family Tradition" [N.B. read "Undocumented Story"]
that one's illustrious ancestor, or even better *multiple* ancestors ---
[N.B. I mean the neighbors might have ONE or TWO, how much better to have an
entire COMPANY of "Companions of the Conqueror" --- requisite insurance
against arrant social climbers and *hoi polloi* --- after all.] was a
"Companion of the Conqueror" and actually fought on the winning side at the
crucial Battle of Hastings on 14 October 1066.
There must have been fierce competition among "paid to produce evidence of
noble Norman connection" hack genealogists. --- We've all heard of the
Whitney Family Genealogy as a good apposite example of this sort of fraud
and deceit.
The bidding must have been interesting to watch. I mean it was one thing to
have one or many "Companions of the Conqueror" in one's Family Tree --- but
how much better if the heroic ancestor had rendered William The Conqueror
some signal service, perhaps even saved his life at the Battle of Hastings.
How about those apples?
Then to carry the charade further from the ridiculous to the sublime, what
if William The Conqueror actually gave the genealogical climber's Family its
surname! How exquisitely sublime and unbeatable!
Here is one such story, with reference to The "Ayres Family" [N.B. Quickly
extended to Ayer, Ayers, Ayre, Ayr, Eyre, Eyer and other orthographic
formulations. The clever genealogist could make up one of these "Companions
of the Conqueror" stories and then sell it repeatedly to other families with
similar surnames --- in a unique and gold-embossed edition, of course.
This version is recounted by Nellie F. Ayres in her fine book "Ayres Kin and
Kin to Kin" --- p.7 --- published in Memphis, Tennessee in 1961. She cites
"Thorpe's Catalogue of Deeds of Battle Abbey" [without any further
citational details] as her source:
"The first of his family was named Truelove, who was one of the followers of
William the Conqueror at the Battle of Hastings, 1066; the Duke was flung
from his horse, and his helmet beaten into his face, which Truelove
observing, he pulled it off and horsed him again; Duke William told him:
"Thou shalt hereafter instead of Truelove be called Eyre (or air) because
thou hast given me the air I breathe." After the battle the Duke found him
severely wounded, his leg and thigh having been struck off; he ordered him
utmost care, and on his recovery gave him lands in Derbyshire in reward for
his services, and for a crest a leg and thigh in armor cut off, an honorary
badge yet borne by all the Ayres in England."
1. "Truelove" --- nicely akin to --- and with echoes of "Braveheart" or
"Greatheart" in Pilgrim's Progress. Excellent cultural resonance. Perhaps
a romantic appeal to the ladies as well?
2. Definitely fought at the Battle of Hastings, in the front rank. Not an
also ran. He was close enough to "Duke William" to save his life.
3. After saving William The Conqueror's life "our illustrious ancestor" put
the Duke back on his horse again.
4. Truelove, "our illustrious ancestor" seems to have lost parts of both of
his legs ["severely wounded, his leg and thigh having been struck off."] but
survives. Remarkable! Much better and more skillful medics at Hastings in
1066 than at Omaha Beach in 1944, I assume.
5. Received his new surname, "Eyre" directly from the Duke himself for
restoring his air supply and saving his life.
6. Granted lands in Derbyshire in reward for his services.
So, in summary --- we have a charming and quite fantastic tale of a
"Companion of the Conqueror."
How many more of these tales can be unearthed from the genealogical records?
It would be quite interesting to compare them and track the formulaic
writing of these obvious frauds concocted by genealogical charlatans and
foisted on credulous yet most covetous and hopeful clients.
Does anyone have another example?
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas
Fortem Posce Animum
--
D. Spencer Hines --- "Cave ab homine unius libri." --- Anonymous
Andrea
Although I recognize that it *is* possible to play on people's desire to
share the blood of a "worthy" (whether it be Wm. the Conquerer, Geo.
Washington, or Jesus of Nazareth), there is a possibility (isn't there?)
that there are grains of truth to the tale?
The documentation alluded to in the information supplied by you should be
possible to verify (at least in regard to peerage, land, etc.).
Am I wrong in maintaining that branding Nellie F. Ayres a "genealogical
charlatan" concocting an "obvious fraud" is not only potentially libelous
but may be considered as unfounded as you posit her claims are?
Surely some must be descended from these lines... especially when
considering the exponential functions of genealogy.
Just a thought
Andrea
D. Spencer Hines wrote in message <6pqj9r$g...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
"'. . . After the battle the Duke [Wm. the C] found him severely wounded,
his leg and thigh having been struck off; he ordered him utmost care, and
on his recovery gave him lands in Derbyshire in reward for his services, and
for a crest a leg and thigh in armor cut off, an honorary
badge yet borne by all the Ayres in England.'
. . .
|6. Granted lands in Derbyshire in reward for his services.
||How many more of these tales can be unearthed from the genealogical
records?
|It would be quite interesting to compare them and track the formulaic
|writing of these obvious frauds concocted by genealogical charlatans and
|foisted on credulous yet most covetous and hopeful clients.
|. . .D. Spencer Hines
|
D. Spencer Hines
I'm not accusing Nellie F. Ayres, who wrote a fine book and is deceased, of
any fraudulent or charlatanlike behavior.
Read slowly and carefully before you put your foot in your mouth again.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas
--
D. Spencer Hines --- "Cave ab homine unius libri." --- Anonymous
Andrea wrote in message <6pqlmm$1ne$1...@winter.news.erols.com>...
>
>Although I recognize that it *is* possible to play on people's desire to
>share the blood of a "worthy" (whether it be Wm. the Conquerer, Geo.
>Washington, or Jesus of Nazareth), there is a possibility (isn't there?)
>that there are grains of truth to the tale?
>The documentation alluded to in the information supplied by you should be
>possible to verify (at least in regard to peerage, land, etc.).
>Am I wrong in maintaining that branding Nellie F. Ayres a "genealogical
>charlatan" concocting an "obvious fraud" is not only potentially libelous
>but may be considered as unfounded as you posit her claims are?
>Surely some must be descended from these lines... especially when
>considering the exponential functions of genealogy.
>
>Just a thought
>Andrea
Not a *thought* at all, but simply a spurious effluvium from the cerebral
cortex --- unprocessed by the fully-engaged brain.
DSH
Exitus Acta Probat
Jae Fleming
>there was an
>irresistible yearning to prove that one was a Noble and Norman. [N.B. Yes,
>I *know* that Ivanhoe was a "dispossessed Saxon", but these WASP folks still
>lusted after Norman status. They wanted to identify themselves with the
>WINNERS, not the LOSERS at Hastings.]
Since I have a line from Harold II, I've always been more interested in the
losers.
There is a website devoted to the "Companions of Duke William" at:
http://www.infokey.com/hon/norman.htm
which says it is "A combination of all the known Battell Abbey Rolls,
including Wace, Dukes, Counts, Barons, Seigneurs who attended William at
Hastings."
In comparison, we know the names of only a handful of the Saxon contingent
-- and I have not seen genealogies for any of them other than the king. If
you know of such, please instruct me:
Harold II and his brothers, Leofwin and Gyrth
Hakon, the king's nephew
Aelfwig, Abbot of Winchester (the king's uncle)
Leofric, Abbot of Peterborough
Godric of Fyfield
Aelfric of Huntingdon
Breme (possibly a thegn of Gyrth)
Eseyar of Middlesex
Thurkill of Berkshire
Georgia Fleming
Hyac...@snowhill.com
Matt Townsend
should be noted in the record. In this way, the record, going forward, will
at least note the debate.
The Ayres story, like so many, cannot be proven or disproved. At least
that's the way I read it. Hines cynically shows how it cannot be true, yet
cannot disprove it. Good research dictates that all these tidbits have
value; if not now, perhaps later or to someone else. And I'm not so sure
that falsely claiming to be a Norman descendent is all that important, one
way or the other, in the grand way of the world and how it spins.
On the Townsend end of things we have the legendary Lodovic, the Norman
noble in William's court. His name shows up in vast quantities of family
history. I've not yet found him in any works about William, however.
So when did Lodovic show up on Townsend radar? In a genealogy written in
the early 1700s by Lord Charles Townshend Viscount Townshend (1725-1767),
once Chancellor of the Exchequer, and on file at the University of Michigan
Clements Library, he shows at the very top:
"Lodavie, a Noble Norman came into England Temp.Hen I and took the name of
Townshend"
it also states he married
"Elizabeth, dau. and heir of Sir Thomas deHeywell, KT."
This document was an original in his own hand. Sounds pretty credible does
it not? Credible source. Old and stable Norfolk nobility.
Moreton, in his excellent 1992 work "The Townshends and their world:
Gentry, Law, and Land in Norfolk c 1450-1551 writes:
"...the family is clouded in obscurity and downright invention. This was
partly the fault of the Townshends themselves because, in common with other
families, they fabricated a pedigree during the heraldic visitations of the
second half of the 16th century in order to disguise their true origins. A
fictitious family tree, sometimes including Norman ancestry, was
perpetuated by successive generations of gullible antiquarians and local
historians."
Does Moreton disprove Lodovic? Probably not. Both are equally as true as
they are untrue, IMHO.
That's my story.
Matt Townsend
At 04:33 PM 7/30/98 -0400, Andrea wrote:
>
>Although I recognize that it *is* possible to play on people's desire to
>share the blood of a "worthy" (whether it be Wm. the Conquerer, Geo.
>Washington, or Jesus of Nazareth), there is a possibility (isn't there?)
>that there are grains of truth to the tale?
>The documentation alluded to in the information supplied by you should be
>possible to verify (at least in regard to peerage, land, etc.).
>Am I wrong in maintaining that branding Nellie F. Ayres a "genealogical
>charlatan" concocting an "obvious fraud" is not only potentially libelous
>but may be considered as unfounded as you posit her claims are?
>Surely some must be descended from these lines... especially when
>considering the exponential functions of genealogy.
>
>Just a thought
>Andrea
>
>
>D. Spencer Hines wrote in message <6pqj9r$g...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>"'. . . After the battle the Duke [Wm. the C] found him severely wounded,
>his leg and thigh having been struck off; he ordered him utmost care, and
>on his recovery gave him lands in Derbyshire in reward for his services, and
>for a crest a leg and thigh in armor cut off, an honorary
>badge yet borne by all the Ayres in England.'
>. . .
>|6. Granted lands in Derbyshire in reward for his services.
>||How many more of these tales can be unearthed from the genealogical
>records?
>|It would be quite interesting to compare them and track the formulaic
>|writing of these obvious frauds concocted by genealogical charlatans and
>|foisted on credulous yet most covetous and hopeful clients.
>|. . .D. Spencer Hines
>|
>
****************************************************
Matt Townsend
Ayupp Business Database Services --- Affirmative
719-488-2314
** Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines **
G . EDWARD ALLEN
equal weight to Moreton as to the Viscount is to expose yourself to the
charge of not understanding the evaluation and weighing of evidence. I
believe that you are more knowledgeable. Did you really mean to imply
that the Viscount's Ludovic is as valid as Moreton's charge that it was
basically trumped up?
Kay Allen AG all...@pacbell.net
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> There is a website devoted to the "Companions of Duke William" at:
> http://www.infokey.com/hon/norman.htm
> which says it is "A combination of all the known Battell Abbey Rolls,
> including Wace, Dukes, Counts, Barons, Seigneurs who attended William at
> Hastings."
Unfortunately most of the sources used to compile this list are
worthless. It proves the desire to trace to this group a lot more than
what we know about it.
> In comparison, we know the names of only a handful of the Saxon contingent
> -- and I have not seen genealogies for any of them other than the king. If
> you know of such, please instruct me:
>
> [11 names]
This list is not that dissimilar to the list of those on the winning
side which we KNOW to have been there - somewhere in the neighborhood of
21 individuals.
taf
Matt Townsend
the way of the hobby? arggh!
I left out that I still put some stock in the Viscount's reference to the
deHeywells; a noted name and gentry. In the process of digging more on
that. Also, I've not looked over Moreton's references and still need to.
Still more dastardly is that I was in too much of a hurry to cite his
references in the original note. To wit:
- W. Rye, A History of Norfolk (London, 1885), 29-31
- BL, Harl. MS 4,756; A, Collins, Peerage of England, rev. edn., 9 vols.
(London, 1812) ii. 454-60;Blomefield, vii. 130-1; Dashwood, 306.
By the way, the Viscount states that Lodavie/Elizabeth had a son Walter
that married Catherine, dau. of Sir Walter Scogan, KT. More stuff to chase
down.
I'm not too stoic and will take all and any of the help I can get. Thanks
for you comment, Kay!
mt
I really do wish that you had not made that last statement. To give
>equal weight to Moreton as to the Viscount is to expose yourself to the
>charge of not understanding the evaluation and weighing of evidence. I
>believe that you are more knowledgeable. Did you really mean to imply
>that the Viscount's Ludovic is as valid as Moreton's charge that it was
>basically trumped up?
>
>Kay Allen AG all...@pacbell.net
>>
***********************************************************************
Matt Townsend
Ayupp Business Database Services --- Affirmative
719-488-2314
* If Con is the Opposite of Pro then what is the opposite of PROGRESS?*
G . EDWARD ALLEN
Have you tried Blomefield's History of Norfolk and the Victoria County
History series for Norfolk.
Try Blomefield vii:130-137. New England Register has something xxix:97.
There is also Townshends of Raynham, J. Durham. Norfolk Arch. xxiii: 95.
Norfolk Families, 925-935. Just rying to find all these should keep you
busy for awhile.
K
D. Spencer Hines
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas
--
D. Spencer Hines --- "Cave ab homine unius libri." --- Anonymous
Matt Townsend wrote in message
<4.0.1.19980730...@pop3.concentric.net>...
>Oops, sorry you drew that conclusion. See what happens when work gets in
>the way of the hobby? arggh!
Hmmmm. Ooops, indeed. No comment.
<baldersnip>
>>> The Ayres story, like so many, cannot be proven or disproved. At least
>>> that's the way I read it. Hines cynically shows how it cannot be true,
yet
>>> cannot disprove it. Good research dictates that all these tidbits have
>>> value; if not now, perhaps later or to someone else...
<more baldersnip>
>>> Does Moreton disprove Lodovic? Probably not. Both are equally as true as
>>> they are untrue, IMHO.
??????
>>>
>>> That's my story.
>>>
>>> Matt Townsend
>>>
No one is required to disprove a fabulous, contrived and unconvincing story.
The burden of proof clearly lies on the shoulders of the person who trots
out and then touts and peddles the story.
Even the rankest amateur and fool should see the truth of that.
D. Spencer Hines
D. Spencer Hines
D. Spencer Hines
--
D. Spencer Hines --- "Cave ab homine unius libri." --- Anonymous
Matt Townsend wrote in message
<4.0.1.19980730...@pop3.concentric.net>...
<snip>
>So when did Lodovic show up on Townsend radar? In a genealogy written in
>the early 1700s by Lord Charles Townshend Viscount Townshend (1725-1767),
>once Chancellor of the Exchequer, and on file at the University of Michigan
>Clements Library, he shows at the very top:
>
>"Lodavie, a Noble Norman came into England Temp.Hen I and took the name of
>Townshend"
>
>it also states he married
>
>"Elizabeth, dau. and heir of Sir Thomas deHeywell, KT."
>
>This document was an original in his own hand. Sounds pretty credible does
>it not? Credible source. Old and stable Norfolk nobility.
If you actually have an authenticated copy of an early 12th Century ["Temp.
Hen I"] holographic ["an original in his own hand" --- vide supra] document
that proves the existence of this "Lodovic/Lodavie" [N.B. Perhaps we need
both the Norse and the French forms to get all the suckers into the tent.]
and equates him to a known Townshend/Townsend then --- bring it on.
You can easily post a facsimile copy at a binary site, tell us where to find
it and we'll give you an honest reading as to its standing and possible
interpretation.
On the other hand, if all you have is a reference --- to a holographic
document --- in a secondary or tertiary source by Lord Townshend or some
other bloke --- that is itself suspect and tainted --- but no document ---
then it is probably bogus.
And, if that be the case --- you should stop blowing smoke.
In either case, the burden of proof for demonstrating that "Lodovic/Lodavie"
came to England in the reign of Henry I [1100-1135] and changed his name to
Townshend/Townsend is clearly on your shoulders.
Further, if he came during that period, he was hardly a "Companion of the
Conqueror" at Hastings in 1066.
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas
Exitus Acta Probat
Louis Epstein
: One of the recurrent themes one finds in Royal Genealogy, as it pertains to
: WASPs [White Anglo-Saxon Protestants] --- particularly those of English or
: Scottish descent --- is a marked penchant by families to associate
: themselves with William the Conqueror [c.1027-1087].
Even DESCENT from the Conqueror is at this stage extremely commonplace,
documented or not.His incalculable number of remote progeny are all over
the world.
singl...@my-dejanews.com
mto...@concentric.net (Matt Townsend) wrote:
> On the Townsend end of things we have the legendary Lodovic, the Norman
> noble in William's court. His name shows up in vast quantities of family
> history. I've not yet found him in any works about William, however.
>
Is it not true that Townsends are descended from a homosexual marriage. In
fact, I believe it has been demonstrated in this forum as well. Thus, it is
most likely that one of the two males in the homosexual marriage adopted the
ancestor of the current Townsends. Thus, attempts to hide this descent must
be ascribed to homophobia in the last 300 years.
--Daisy Hines. (not related to the other hines.)
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
JKent...@aol.com
<< Is it not true that Townsends are descended from a homosexual marriage. In
fact, I believe it has been demonstrated in this forum as well. Thus, it is
most likely that one of the two males in the homosexual marriage adopted the
ancestor of the current Townsends. >>
Let's see now, which one gave birth.
Jno
Matt Townsend
Your Townsend origin is the first I've hear of it. It certainly isn't
discussed by Moreton. I have not yet found my connection to the Noble
Townsends and perhaps we are talking about a different line than his.
I'm all ears (makes up for my lack of hair, I suppose.) Please point in the
direction where I can find out about this. I do not remember the discussion
in this list but have only been lurking for less than a year.
TYIA
matt townsend
At 08:39 PM 8/2/98 +0000, you wrote:
>In article <4.0.1.19980730...@pop3.concentric.net>,
> mto...@concentric.net (Matt Townsend) wrote:
>> On the Townsend end of things we have the legendary Lodovic, the Norman
>> noble in William's court. His name shows up in vast quantities of family
>> history. I've not yet found him in any works about William, however.
>>
>
>
>Is it not true that Townsends are descended from a homosexual marriage. In
>fact, I believe it has been demonstrated in this forum as well. Thus, it is
>most likely that one of the two males in the homosexual marriage adopted the
>ancestor of the current Townsends. Thus, attempts to hide this descent must
>be ascribed to homophobia in the last 300 years.
>
>
>--Daisy Hines. (not related to the other hines.)
>
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
>
***************************************************
Matt Townsend
Ayupp Business Database Services --- Affirmative
719-488-2314
*** Do Roman paramedics refer to IV's as "4's"? ***