C.P. Addition: Margaret, wife of Henry le Tyeys, 2nd Lord Tyeys, and Thomas de Monthermer, 2nd Lord Monthermer

[Douglas Richardson]

Dear Newsgroup ~

Some years ago I assembled good evidence that Margaret, widow of Henry le Tyeys, 2nd Lord Tyeys, was the same person as Margaret, wife of Thomas de Monthermer, 2nd Lord Monthermer (grandson of King Edward I). The evidence was compelling, but just short of conclusive.

Recently I located a Common Pleas lawsuit dated 1342 which conclusively proves that the two Margaret's are the same person. I've included a short abstract of the lawsuit below.

In 1342 John la Warre and Peter de Grandison sued Margaret widow of Thomas de Monthermer in the Court of Common Pleas regarding five messuages, 15 acres of meadow, 20s. rent, one virgate, the third part of two carucates of land, and one messuage in Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire; the said Margaret came into court and stated that she held the property in dower of the dotation of Henry Tyeys formerly her husband and by assignment of Alice widow of Warin de Lisle sister and heir of Henry Tyeys.

Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/330, image 169f (available at
http://‌aalt.law.uh.edu/‌AALT1/‌E3/‌CP40no330/‌aCP40no330fronts/‌IMG_0169.htm).

For interest's sake, the following is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Margaret de Brewes [died 1349], wife of Henry le Tyeys, 2nd Lord Tyeys, and Thomas de Monthermer, 2nd Lord Monthermer:

Elizabeth Alsop, William Bladen, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, Stephen Bull, Charles Calvert, Francis Dade, Robert Drake, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Anne Humphrey, Thomas Lunsford, John and Margaret Nelson, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John West.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

[Matthew Langley]

Do the descendants include William Farrar of Virginia? I've seen the following in trees and am curious if it is correct (not sure if this formatting will work, we'll see lol)


Thomas de Monthermer, 2nd Lord Monthermer = Margaret de Brewes
|
Margaret de Monthermer = Sir John Montagu
|
Alianore de Montagu = Sir John de Dinham
|
Muriel Dinham = Sir Edward Hastings, de jure 8th Lord Hastings
|
John Hastings de jure 9th Lord Hastings = Ann Morley
|
_________________________________________________________________
| |
Elizabeth Hastings = Sir Robert Hildyard Isabel Hastings = Thomas Bosvile
| |
Katherine Hildyard = William Girlington Margaret Bosvile = William Symmes
| |
Isabel Girlington = Christopher Kelke Alice Symmes = Gerard Lacy, of Brearley Hall
| |
William Kelke = Thomasine Skerne Hugh Lacy = Agnes Savile
| |
| Margaret Lacy = William Farrar
| |
________________________________________________________________
|
Cecily Kelke = John Farrar
|
William Farrar of Virginia

[CE Wood]

Your formatting is perfect! How did you do it? So many of us have had our chart posts totally useless since the demise of the plain text option.

CE Wood

[Douglas Richardson]

Dear Matthew ~

I reviewed my file notes. Below is an expanded list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Margaret de Brewes [died 1349], wife of Henry le Tyeys, 2nd Lord Tyeys, and Thomas de Monthermer, 2nd Lord Monthermer. The expanded list includes your immigrant ancestor, William Farrer.

Elizabeth Alsop, William Asfordby, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, Stephen Bull, Charles Calvert, William Crymes, Francis Dade, Robert Drake, William Farrer, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Anne Humphrey, Thomas Lunsford, Anne, Elizabeth, & John Mansfield, John and Margaret Nelson, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, William Skepper, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John West.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

[Steve Riggan]

Matthew, I think Isabel Hastings line to the Farrars has been disproven by further research of our Farrar cousin John Ravilious. The Hastings to Girlington line is correct. I am descended from the Monthermer line, not only through my father's descent from William Farrar, but also from my mother's descent from Diana Skipwith Dale. So much research has been done on these lines.

Steve Riggan

Sent from my iPhone

> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

[Matthew Langley]

@CE Wood:

Unfortunately it looks like some of my formatting didn't work... not sure why. It probably sort of worked since I formed it via tabs and spaces in a plain text editor. Curious if I used all spaces it would work.

@Douglas Richardson:

Thanks! Just glad to see I didn't have it completely wrong.

@Steve Riggan:

Hey cousin, very fascinating. Do you have a reference to that work? Searching I am only finding posts by our cousin John in 2005, basically establishing the line (in some he disproves Joan Symmes as Alice Symmes. I certainly could be missing.

This is exactly what I was hoping, to find out if any of these have been disproven.

[sabaris...@gmail.com]

On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 4:17:58 AM UTC+1, CE Wood wrote:
> Your formatting is perfect! How did you do it? So many of us have had our chart posts totally useless since the demise of the plain text option.
>
> CE Wood

I've never had a problem with formatting - simply select the whole chart and change the font to courier or other non-proportional font, and everything falls neatly into place.

___________________________________________________________

[celticp...@gmail.com]

Dear Newsgroup

Back in 2017 I discovered conclusive evidence that Margaret, widow of Henry le Tyeys, 2nd Lord Tyeys [he died 1322], is the same person as Margaret, wife of Sir Thomas de Monthermer, 2nd Lord Monthermer (grandson of King Edward I).

The evidence consists of a Common Pleas lawsuit dated 1342, in which Margaret, widow of Thomas de Monthermer, specifically refers to her first husband, Henry Tyeys. An abstract of the lawsuit is given below:

In 1342 John la Warre and Peter de Grandison sued Margaret widow of Thomas de Monthermer in the Court of Common Pleas regarding five messuages, 15 acres of meadow, 20s. rent, one virgate, the third part of two carucates of land, and one messuage in Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire; the said Margaret came into court and stated that she held the property in dower of the dotation of Henry Tyeys formerly her husband and by assignment of Alice widow of Warin de Lisle sister and heir of Henry Tyeys.

Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/330, image 169f (available at
http://‌aalt.law.uh.edu/‌AALT1/‌E3/‌CP40no330/‌aCP40no330fronts/‌IMG_0169.htm).

Since my 2017 post, I've located another Common Pleas lawsuit dated 1349, in which Margaret again refers to Henry Tyes as her former husband and also names Henry's heir as Gerard de Lisle. As such, there can be no question as to the identity of Henry Tyes. An abstract of the 1349 lawsuit is provided below:

In Easter term 1349 Peter de Grandison sued Margaret widow of Thomas de Monthermer in the Court of Common Pleas regarding five messuages, 14 acres of meadow, 20 shillings of rent, one virgate and the third part of two carucates of land and one messuage with appurtenances in Lydyard Tregoz, Wiltshire which he claimed as his right. Margaret by Bartholomew atte Mede her attorney came [into court] and said that she held the said property in dower by the dotation of Henry Tyes formerly her husband and she called to warranty Gerard de Lisle, kinsman and heir of the said Henry.

Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/358, image 8007 (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E3/CP40no358/aCP40no358mm1toEnd/IMG_8007.htm)].

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

[celticp...@gmail.com]

Dear Newsgroup ~

Below is a Common Pleas lawsuit dated 1340 which provides further evidence that Margaret, wife of Thomas de Monthermer, 2nd Lord Monthermer, was the widow of Sir Henry le Tyeys, 2nd Lord Tyeys, who was executed in 1322:

Court of Common Pleas, CP40/323, image 148f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no323/aCP40no323fronts/IMG_0148.htm).

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah