Wife of Armegol III of Urgel
jlucsoler
(husband of Adelais of PROVENCE)
is she Sancha of ARAGON
is she Clementia Of FOIX - BIGORRE
is she Adealis of BESALU
thx
jl
Nathaniel Taylor
"jlucsoler" <jluc...@modulonet.fr> wrote:
It is definitely Adalaidis who is mother of Ermengol IV. In the Midi
and Catalonia conventional oaths of the eleventh century required
oathtakers to name their own mothers. There are at least two of these
texts extant for Ermengol IV naming his mother as Adalaidis: Liber
Feudorum Maior, no. 582, and one published in Baraut's edition of the
documents from the archive of Urgell (in the journal _Urgellia_), no.
897. Martin Aurell, in "Jalons pour une enquete sur les strategies
matrimoniales des comtes catalans (IXe - XIe s.)," in _Symposium
internacional sobre els origens de Catalunya (segles VIII-XI)_, 2 vols.
(Barcelona: Commissio del Mil.lenari de Catalunya: Generalitat de
Catalunya, 1991), 1:281-364, at 351-2, notes no evidence that Adalaidis'
was 'of Besalu'; this assignment came in (Aurell cites Armand de Fluvia
for it) only as a guess on onomastic grounds.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
jlucsoler
JL
"Nathaniel Taylor" <nathani...@earthlink.net> a écrit dans le message
de news: nathanieltaylor-7A...@news.west.earthlink.net...
al...@mindspring.com
> denews: nathanieltaylor-7A17D7.13452207032__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$z...@news.west.earthlink.net...
>
>
>
> > In article <45eef9d8$0$3463$a3f29...@nnrp1.numericable.fr>,
> > "jlucsoler" <jlucso...@modulonet.fr> wrote:
>
> >> I would be very pleased to know who is the mother of Armengol IV of Urgel
> >> (husband of Adelais of PROVENCE)
>
> >> is she Sancha of ARAGON
> >> is she Clementia Of FOIX - BIGORRE
> >> is she Adealis of BESALU
>
> > It is definitely Adalaidis who is mother of Ermengol IV. In the Midi
> > and Catalonia conventional oaths of the eleventh century required
> > oathtakers to name their own mothers. There are at least two of these
> > texts extant for Ermengol IV naming his mother as Adalaidis: Liber
> > Feudorum Maior, no. 582, and one published in Baraut's edition of the
> > documents from the archive of Urgell (in the journal _Urgellia_), no.
> > 897. Martin Aurell, in "Jalons pour une enquete sur les strategies
> > matrimoniales des comtes catalans (IXe - XIe s.)," in _Symposium
> > internacional sobre els origens de Catalunya (segles VIII-XI)_, 2 vols.
> > (Barcelona: Commissio del Mil.lenari de Catalunya: Generalitat de
> > Catalunya, 1991), 1:281-364, at 351-2, notes no evidence that Adalaidis'
> > was 'of Besalu'; this assignment came in (Aurell cites Armand de Fluvia
> > for it) only as a guess on onomastic grounds.
>
> > Nat Taylor
>
> - Show quoted text -
Leo should note this, Genealogics shows Armengol IV's mother as
Clemence de Bigorre apparently based on
:Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke,
Detlev (Ed.), Reference: III 132.
Doug Smith
taf
> On Mar 7, 1:52 pm, "jlucsoler" <jlucso...@modulonet.fr> wrote:
>
>
>
> > a GREAT GREAT THANKS
>
> > JL
>
> > "Nathaniel Taylor" <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net> a écrit dans le message
>
> > > In article <45eef9d8$0$3463$a3f29...@nnrp1.numericable.fr>,
> > > "jlucsoler" <jlucso...@modulonet.fr> wrote:
>
> > >> I would be very pleased to know who is the mother of Armengol IV of Urgel
> > >> (husband of Adelais of PROVENCE)
>
> > >> is she Sancha of ARAGON
> > >> is she Clementia Of FOIX - BIGORRE
> > >> is she Adealis of BESALU
>
> > > It is definitely Adalaidis who is mother of Ermengol IV. In the Midi
> > > and Catalonia conventional oaths of the eleventh century required
> > > oathtakers to name their own mothers. There are at least two of these
> > > texts extant for Ermengol IV naming his mother as Adalaidis: Liber
> > > Feudorum Maior, no. 582, and one published in Baraut's edition of the
> > > documents from the archive of Urgell (in the journal _Urgellia_), no.
> > > 897. Martin Aurell, in "Jalons pour une enquete sur les strategies
> > > matrimoniales des comtes catalans (IXe - XIe s.)," in _Symposium
> > > internacional sobre els origens de Catalunya (segles VIII-XI)_, 2 vols.
> > > (Barcelona: Commissio del Mil.lenari de Catalunya: Generalitat de
> > > Catalunya, 1991), 1:281-364, at 351-2, notes no evidence that Adalaidis'
> > > was 'of Besalu'; this assignment came in (Aurell cites Armand de Fluvia
> > > for it) only as a guess on onomastic grounds.
>
> > > Nat Taylor
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Leo should note this, Genealogics shows Armengol IV's mother as
> Clemence de Bigorre apparently based on
>
> :Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke,
> Detlev (Ed.), Reference: III 132.
Which tells you the value of ES for such connections.
taf
Nathaniel Taylor
<nathanieltaylor-7A...@news.west.earthlink.net>,
I wrote:
> It is definitely Adalaidis who is mother of Ermengol IV....
Leo wrote to gen-medieval (not yet on my Usenet server):
> I have seen Nat Taylor's reply, let me add what ES III/1 Tafel 132 gives
>
> Armengol III known as 'de Barbastro', Count of Urgel
> married (1) about 1050 Adelaida de Besalu, daughter of Count Guillermo I,
> she died about 1055
> married (2) about 1055 Clemencia de Bigorre, daughter of Counbt Bernardo II,
> she died about 1065
> married (3) about 1065 Sancha of Aragon, daughter of King Ramiro I, widow of
> Ponce Count of Toulouse, she died 1072
>
> Armengol III is shown with six children and only the last one Sancha is
> given a mother, her mother is the third wife.
> The first son Armengol IV is shown as born about 1056. As Nat Taylor used
> primary sources, should we say Armengol was born before 1056 or better
> latest 1055? It seems to imply that the other children are by the second
> wife. I hope Nat Taylor knows more about this.
>
> ES (and other works) when dates of birth are missing, shows sons first and
> then daughters. In this case Armengol III had (besides Sancha) one daughter
> Isabel.
> Who is the mother of Isabel? IShould it also be Adelaide de Besalu? As
> Isabel married about 1065 Sancho IV King of Aragon, has a son (King Pedro I)
> in 1069. Could Isabel have been the first child of the second wife and give
> birth aged about 14? Isabel is then divorced (in 1070) and marries about
> 1071 Ramon I, Count de Cerdagne.
Let me add more of what Martin Aurell has on this family, in "Jalons..."
and also in his follow-up book, _Les Noces du comte: mariage et pouvoir
en Catalogne (785-1213)_ (Paris 1995), which covers the same ground.
Both works are a study of marriage politics: interested in the origins
of wives and the fates of daughters, and only incidentally interested in
setting the record straight about precisely who was mother of whom.
Aurell ("Jalons," 351-2; and _Noces_ in tables) gives *4* wives for
Ermengol III, based on contemporary documents:
1. Adalaidis. No information on maternity (assignment of 'Besalu' is an
onomastic guess). Attested as his wife 1053 (LFM 147); other
attestations are on copies of charters whose dates appear incorrect.
2. Clemencia (possibly daughter of Bernat de Bigorre & Clemencia, but
again based only on an onomastic guess), attested as his wife on 7 May
1055 (an unpublished charter, Biblioteca de Catalunya, ms 729, vol. 3,
fo. 148) and 26 Jun 1057 (Baraut, "Els documents... de la Seu d'Urgell"
no. 693)
3. Elvira (no information on identity), mentioned as his wife on 6 Nov
1062 (a document, now lost, quoted by D. Costa, _Memorias de la ciudad
de Solsona y su iglesia_ (Barcelona, 1959), p. 98).
4. Sancha de Aragon, dau. Ramiro I, obviously 1062/63: that is, sometime
before Ermengol's death in 1065 and after Elvira; and unfortunately only
attested in undated documents during her husband's lifetime, e.g. LFM
no. 154. In _Les noces_, 59-60 Aurell says without specific
justification that the marriage took place in 1062, likely at the same
time Ermengol's daughter Elisabet (Isabel), probably by wife (1),
married Sancho Ramirez of Aragon: a double marriage alliance. Some time
after the death of Ermengol III (1065) Sancha became a nun at Santa Cruz
de la Seros, a prestigious, old Aragonese convent west of Jaca (and near
the royal male necropolis of San Juan de la Pena). Aurell ("Jalons," p.
353) is agnostic about whether Sancha was indeed married to a count of
Toulouse before this marriage to Ermengol.
Aurell doesn't say this, but it is of course theoretically possible that
the wife no. 3 is a phantom and the sole document in which she was named
had substituted 'Elvira' for 'Sancha' (two Aragonese names) in error.
Of the known children of Ermengol III it is clear that Ermegol IV was
son of Adalaidis. Elizabeth, who was married in or around 1062, is
certainly also by the first wife. Sancha, wife of Hug II of Empuries,
is onomastically likely to have been daughter of Sancha of Aragon,
though there is no tight enough chronology of her to make certain. The
other children are (younger) sons Berenguer, Guillem and Ramon, about
whom there is (I believe) no information sufficient to pin down birth.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
taf
wrote:
> Aurell ("Jalons," 351-2; and _Noces_ in tables) gives *4* wives for
> Ermengol III, based on contemporary documents:
> 3. Elvira (no information on identity), mentioned as his wife on 6 Nov
> 1062 (a document, now lost, quoted by D. Costa, _Memorias de la ciudad
> de Solsona y su iglesia_ (Barcelona, 1959), p. 98).
>
> 4. Sancha de Aragon, dau. Ramiro I, obviously 1062/63: that is,
. . .
> Aurell ("Jalons," p.
> 353) is agnostic about whether Sancha was indeed married to a count of
> Toulouse before this marriage to Ermengol.
Which count of Toulouse is this supposed to be? I wonder if there is
some larger level of confusion here, as Sancho Ramirez is said by a
later chronicler to have married a daughter of Count William of
Toulouse, although this has been proved erroneous.
> Aurell doesn't say this, but it is of course theoretically possible that
> the wife no. 3 is a phantom and the sole document in which she was named
> had substituted 'Elvira' for 'Sancha' (two Aragonese names) in error.
I am not aware of an Elvira at least among the higher Aragonese
nobility (although I haven't looked closely). I tend to associate it
more with Leon.
> Of the known children of Ermengol III it is clear that Ermegol IV was
> son of Adalaidis. Elizabeth, who was married in or around 1062, is
> certainly also by the first wife. Sancha, wife of Hug II of Empuries,
> is onomastically likely to have been daughter of Sancha of Aragon,
> though there is no tight enough chronology of her to make certain.
I know this is offered for what its worth, but given naming patterns,
I would think that a Sancha, daughter of Elvira wouldn't be that much
less likely that a Sancha daughter of Sancha.
taf
Nathaniel Taylor
"taf" <farm...@interfold.com> wrote:
> On Mar 8, 10:44 am, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Aurell ("Jalons," 351-2; and _Noces_ in tables) gives *4* wives for
> > Ermengol III, based on contemporary documents:
>
> > 3. Elvira (no information on identity), mentioned as his wife on 6 Nov
> > 1062 (a document, now lost, quoted by D. Costa, _Memorias de la ciudad
> > de Solsona y su iglesia_ (Barcelona, 1959), p. 98).
> >
> > 4. Sancha de Aragon, dau. Ramiro I, obviously 1062/63: that is,
> . . .
> > Aurell ("Jalons," p.
> > 353) is agnostic about whether Sancha was indeed married to a count of
> > Toulouse before this marriage to Ermengol.
>
> Which count of Toulouse is this supposed to be? I wonder if there is
> some larger level of confusion here, as Sancho Ramirez is said by a
> later chronicler to have married a daughter of Count William of
> Toulouse, although this has been proved erroneous.
Aurell notes that Fluvia (_Els primius comtats i vescomtats de
Catalunya_, 121), allegedly following a note of Vajay (not cited where),
assigns her as 3d wife of count Pons who d. 1061, who had married
previously Majoria, and Almodis of La Marche. A 19th-century writer
(Monfar) had assigned Sancha as previous husband Count Guilhem, who had
died in 1041, obviously chronologically impossible. He doesn't say what
the source of a conviction of a previous Toulousain marriage for her
comes in. I see ES NS 3:763 (Toulouse) assigns her as a wife of a
younger Pons, son of Pons (by Majoria), and elder half-brother of
Guilhem and Raimond de Saint-Gilles. Aurell notes that that Pons' only
attested wifes are Majoria and Almodis, so he rejects this marriage.
And Helene Debax in her Annales du Midi article on the countesses of
Toulouse doesn't show the alleged younger Pons at all, so I don't know
what's up with that.
Actually, Debax in her "Strategies matrimoniales des comtes de Toulouse"
still shows the alleged last marriage of Sancho Ramirez and 1st marriage
of Philippa, daughter of Guilhem Pons of Toulouse (it's found also in ES
NS 2:76 but not in 2:58 nor 3:763 ...). I don't have her (much newer)
book handy, which I know has a further revision of the whole Toulouse
mess. They are still so messed up (let alone their wives), even in the
11th century, that it's best to pare back to attested matches.
> > Aurell doesn't say this, but it is of course theoretically possible that
> > the wife no. 3 is a phantom and the sole document in which she was named
> > had substituted 'Elvira' for 'Sancha' (two Aragonese names) in error.
>
> I am not aware of an Elvira at least among the higher Aragonese
> nobility (although I haven't looked closely). I tend to associate it
> more with Leon.
I meant non-Catalan. Coming from points west, via Aragon (where
Ermengol III was active).
> > Of the known children of Ermengol III it is clear that Ermegol IV was
> > son of Adalaidis. Elizabeth, who was married in or around 1062, is
> > certainly also by the first wife. Sancha, wife of Hug II of Empuries,
> > is onomastically likely to have been daughter of Sancha of Aragon,
> > though there is no tight enough chronology of her to make certain.
>
> I know this is offered for what its worth, but given naming patterns,
> I would think that a Sancha, daughter of Elvira wouldn't be that much
> less likely that a Sancha daughter of Sancha.
If there really was a wife Elvira.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
taf
wrote:
> In article <1173380971.407301.79...@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> "taf" <farme...@interfold.com> wrote:
> > On Mar 8, 10:44 am, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Aurell ("Jalons," 351-2; and _Noces_ in tables) gives *4* wives for
> > > Ermengol III, based on contemporary documents:
>
> > > 3. Elvira (no information on identity), mentioned as his wife on 6 Nov
> > > 1062 (a document, now lost, quoted by D. Costa, _Memorias de la ciudad
> > > de Solsona y su iglesia_ (Barcelona, 1959), p. 98).
>
> > > 4. Sancha de Aragon, dau. Ramiro I, obviously 1062/63: that is,
> > . . .
> > > Aurell ("Jalons," p.
> > > 353) is agnostic about whether Sancha was indeed married to a count of
> > > Toulouse before this marriage to Ermengol.
>
> > Which count of Toulouse is this supposed to be? I wonder if there is
> > some larger level of confusion here, as Sancho Ramirez is said by a
> > later chronicler to have married a daughter of Count William of
> > Toulouse, although this has been proved erroneous.
>
> Aurell notes that Fluvia (_Els primius comtats i vescomtats de
> Catalunya_, 121), allegedly following a note of Vajay (not cited where),
> assigns her as 3d wife of count Pons who d. 1061, who had married
> previously Majoria, and Almodis of La Marche.
And this is the same Majoria who some have tried to identify as
daughter of Sancho Garces III, which would make Pons the huband of
wife, then niece. I should be able to find the Vajay attestation,
given enough time.
> Actually, Debax in her "Strategies matrimoniales des comtes de Toulouse"
> still shows the alleged last marriage of Sancho Ramirez and 1st marriage
> of Philippa, daughter of Guilhem Pons of Toulouse (it's found also in ES
> NS 2:76 but not in 2:58 nor 3:763 ...). I don't have her (much newer)
> book handy, which I know has a further revision of the whole Toulouse
> mess. They are still so messed up (let alone their wives), even in the
> 11th century, that it's best to pare back to attested matches.
Vajay, in his Ramiro II article, shows charter evidence that Felicia
was still married to and acting in concert with Sancho within months
of his death, and that she survived him, so there seems no possibility
for this late marriage to Philippa. I recent analysis of the wives fo
William IX of Aquitaine (based on Vajay's analysis) concluded that he
was certainly her only husband.
> > > Aurell doesn't say this, but it is of course theoretically possible that
> > > the wife no. 3 is a phantom and the sole document in which she was named
> > > had substituted 'Elvira' for 'Sancha' (two Aragonese names) in error.
>
> > I am not aware of an Elvira at least among the higher Aragonese
> > nobility (although I haven't looked closely). I tend to associate it
> > more with Leon.
>
> I meant non-Catalan. Coming from points west, via Aragon (where
> Ermengol III was active).
As you know, this was a period of unrest in the western half of the
penninsula, and there was a higher level of trans-penninsular back and
forth among the nobility (the marriages of the Cid's daughters being
the best known example).
> > > Of the known children of Ermengol III it is clear that Ermegol IV was
> > > son of Adalaidis. Elizabeth, who was married in or around 1062, is
> > > certainly also by the first wife. Sancha, wife of Hug II of Empuries,
> > > is onomastically likely to have been daughter of Sancha of Aragon,
> > > though there is no tight enough chronology of her to make certain.
>
> > I know this is offered for what its worth, but given naming patterns,
> > I would think that a Sancha, daughter of Elvira wouldn't be that much
> > less likely that a Sancha daughter of Sancha.
>
> If there really was a wife Elvira.
Quite.
taf
Peter Stewart
"Nathaniel Taylor" <nathani...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nathanieltaylor-7C...@news.west.earthlink.net...
> In article <1173380971....@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> "taf" <farm...@interfold.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 8, 10:44 am, Nathaniel Taylor <nathanieltay...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Aurell ("Jalons," 351-2; and _Noces_ in tables) gives *4* wives for
>> > Ermengol III, based on contemporary documents:
>>
>> > 3. Elvira (no information on identity), mentioned as his wife on 6 Nov
>> > 1062 (a document, now lost, quoted by D. Costa, _Memorias de la ciudad
>> > de Solsona y su iglesia_ (Barcelona, 1959), p. 98).
>> >
>> > 4. Sancha de Aragon, dau. Ramiro I, obviously 1062/63: that is,
>> . . .
>> > Aurell ("Jalons," p.
>> > 353) is agnostic about whether Sancha was indeed married to a count of
>> > Toulouse before this marriage to Ermengol.
>>
>> Which count of Toulouse is this supposed to be? I wonder if there is
>> some larger level of confusion here, as Sancho Ramirez is said by a
>> later chronicler to have married a daughter of Count William of
>> Toulouse, although this has been proved erroneous.
>
> Aurell notes that Fluvia (_Els primius comtats i vescomtats de
> Catalunya_, 121), allegedly following a note of Vajay (not cited where),
> assigns her as 3d wife of count Pons who d. 1061, who had married
> previously Majoria, and Almodis of La Marche.
This is presumably from Vajay's 'Contribution à l'histoire de l'attitude des
royaumes pirenéens dans la querelle des investitures: de l'origine de
Berthe, reine d'Aragon et de Navarre', _Estudios genealógicos, heráldicos y
nobilarios en honor de Vicente de Cadenas y Vicent, con motivo del XXV
aniversario de la Revista Hidalguía_ (Madrid, 1978) ii 375-402 at p. 396 -
if so, no reference is given for the assertion.
> A 19th-century writer
> (Monfar) had assigned Sancha as previous husband Count Guilhem, who had
> died in 1041, obviously chronologically impossible. He doesn't say what
> the source of a conviction of a previous Toulousain marriage for her
> comes in. I see ES NS 3:763 (Toulouse) assigns her as a wife of a
> younger Pons, son of Pons (by Majoria), and elder half-brother of
> Guilhem and Raimond de Saint-Gilles. Aurell notes that that Pons' only
> attested wifes are Majoria and Almodis, so he rejects this marriage.
> And Helene Debax in her Annales du Midi article on the countesses of
> Toulouse doesn't show the alleged younger Pons at all, so I don't know
> what's up with that.
>
> Actually, Debax in her "Strategies matrimoniales des comtes de Toulouse"
> still shows the alleged last marriage of Sancho Ramirez and 1st marriage
> of Philippa, daughter of Guilhem Pons of Toulouse (it's found also in ES
> NS 2:76 but not in 2:58 nor 3:763 ...). I don't have her (much newer)
> book handy, which I know has a further revision of the whole Toulouse
> mess. They are still so messed up (let alone their wives), even in the
> 11th century, that it's best to pare back to attested matches.
This accord with the view of Débax in _La féodalité languedocienne, XIe-XIIe
siècles: Serments, hommages et fiefs dans le Languedoc des Trencavel_
(Toulouse, 2003). She notes that Pons in mainly known through his marriages,
giving him only the conventional two wives. The suggestion is made that the
first, Majoria, may have belonged to the family of Foix or Trencavel (from
the provenance of a charter original and a copy, respectively) or Pallars
(from onomastics).
>> > Aurell doesn't say this, but it is of course theoretically possible
>> > that
>> > the wife no. 3 is a phantom and the sole document in which she was
>> > named
>> > had substituted 'Elvira' for 'Sancha' (two Aragonese names) in error.
>>
>> I am not aware of an Elvira at least among the higher Aragonese
>> nobility (although I haven't looked closely). I tend to associate it
>> more with Leon.
>
> I meant non-Catalan. Coming from points west, via Aragon (where
> Ermengol III was active).
>
>> > Of the known children of Ermengol III it is clear that Ermegol IV was
>> > son of Adalaidis. Elizabeth, who was married in or around 1062, is
>> > certainly also by the first wife. Sancha, wife of Hug II of Empuries,
>> > is onomastically likely to have been daughter of Sancha of Aragon,
>> > though there is no tight enough chronology of her to make certain.
In the paper cited above, again on p. 396, Vajay gave Elizabeth (said to be
born ca 1052, died before 20 December 1071) as daughter of Ermengol III by
Clemencia of Bigorre (born ca 1036, died ca 1055), stating further that
Clemencia was his first wife (married ca 1048), Adelaide being his second
and Sancha of Aragon (as widow of Pons) his third. But no proof is offered
for any of these details. Maybe ES followed him and wrongly assumed from
Vajay's chronology that Ermengol IV must have been Clemencia's son.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
<snip>
> Aurell ("Jalons," 351-2; and _Noces_ in tables) gives *4* wives for
> Ermengol III, based on contemporary documents:
>
> 1. Adalaidis. No information on maternity (assignment of 'Besalu' is an
> onomastic guess). Attested as his wife 1053 (LFM 147); other
> attestations are on copies of charters whose dates appear incorrect.
I don't know why Aurell gave ca 1053 for LFM no. 147 where Adalez occurs as
the wife of Ermengol III - the editor indicated ca 1050 for this, and in
fact the document must have been written before 29 June 1050 when Ramón
Berenguer I of Barcelona's first wife, Elisabet, died, since she is named as
his countess.
Peter Stewart
Nathaniel Taylor
"Peter Stewart" <p_m_s...@msn.com> wrote:
Interesting; I don't have a full copy of LFM handy so didn't check the
original charters. Since this pushes back the attestation of Adalaide
to ca 1050, it makes it doubly clear that she preceded Clemence as wife
of Ermengol, contradicting Vajay's reordering of the wives. On broad
chronology Ermengol's daughter Elizabeth could I suppose have been by by
either wife.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
Peter Stewart
Christian Settipani asserts that Clemence was the mother of Ermengol's three
younger sons - see _La noblesse du Midi carolingien..._ (Oxford, 2004) p.
148. However, he offers no source for the information. I have not come
across any evidence for their maternity, but this is not from systematic
research into the Urgel lineage.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
"Peter Stewart" <p_m_s...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3i0Jh.9908$8U4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Further to the dating of Ermengol III's first marriage, to Adelais,
according to Pierre Ponsich [see Le Conflent et ses comtes du IXe au XIIe
siècle, _Études roussillonnaises_ 1 (1951) at pp. 303-304] the pact with
Raimon Berenger I of Barcelona naming the wives of both principals was
occasioned by the death on 31 July 1049 of Count Guifred of Cerdagne, and
whether or not hostilities took place as promised the matter was apparently
concluded when Guifred's younger son Berenger was appointed bishop of Girona
in 1050. Ponsich noted that Ermengol was aged only 16 at the time.
Peter Stewart