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Complete Peerage Correction: The Wife of Sir Ralph Bulmer (d. 1486)
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John Watson
Oct 21, 2015, 8:32:32 PM10/21/15
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Dear all,
I recently came across a good example of why we should not place too much reliance on the uncorroborated evidence of visitation pedigrees. In the words of Joseph Foster "I would venture to speak a word of caution as to all Visitations, however full and suggestive, and well worth having. I believe the highest authorities will join with me in saying that they are far from infallible records; that implicit reliance cannot be placed on them, except, perhaps, for the latest three or four generations; and that the ignorance of the gentry as to the maiden names of their grandmothers, and, much more, of their sisters-in-law, was often most astonishing" [1].
One of the earliest heraldic visitations of northern England, that by Thomas Tong, taken in 1530 states that "Syr Rauff Bulmer, knyght, son and heyre of Syr Willyam, maried Joan, doughter of Syr Willyam Bowes, knyght: and he had yssue Syr Willyam Bulmer; and Anne, maried to Marmaduke de la Ryver" [2]. This Sir Ralph Bulmer son of Sir William Bulmer and Elizabeth Eure was born about 1440 and died on 23 June 1486 [3]. Every subsequent visitation pedigree of the Bulmer and Bowes families records the marriage of Joan Bowes with Sir Ralph Bulmer. This identification of the wife of Sir Ralph Bulmer was also accepted by Complete Peerage without question [4]. Apart from the visitation pedigrees, there is no contemporary evidence at all that Joan Bowes married Ralph Bulmer. I have searched in vain for a deed, a charter, a will, a chancery roll entry, or even a bit of heraldry, but I can find nothing.
Recently, when browsing through the online Durham Cathedral Muniments [5], I came across some evidence that even if Ralph Bulmer married Joan Bowes, she was not the mother of his children. The documents in question form part of a series of deeds concerning a Bulmer property in Simonside, county Durham and apparently show that the wife of Sir Ralph Bulmer, and mother of his children was Agnes, daughter of Thomas Warde.
20 April 1485, Appointment by John Eysby vicar of Lytham, William Arnold (Galand cancelled) chaplain, John Megson of Hartlepool burgess, and William Cottes yeoman of Matthew Peighane and John Bicheburne yeomen as their attorneys for the delivery of the seisin of all the lands in the vill and territory of Simonside upon Tyne, formerly called Preston near Jarrow, in Co Durham, to William Bulmer and Ralph Bulmer, sons of Agnes Warde, as more fully appears in their charter.
Durham Cathedral Muniments: Specialia, 1.5.Spec.34
22 April 1485, Grant by John Eysby vicar of Lytham, William Arnold chaplain, John Megson of Hartlepool burgess and William Cottes yeoman, who had been enfoeoffed by Ralph Bulmer miles of all his lands in the vills and fields of Thorpebulmer and Nesbit in Co Durham and the wapentake of Sadberge and in the vill and field of Symonside upon Tyne once called Preston near Jarrow in Co Durham, to William Bulmer and Ralph Bulmer sons of Agnes Warde, daughter of Thomas Warde, of the said lands in Simonside upon Tyne, with remainder to the other sons of Ralph Bulmer and Agnes Warde, and then their daughters of the same couple, and then the right heirs of Ralph Bulmer. Witnesses: Robert Bulmer and William Bulmer armigeres, Thomas White, Robert Day, Robert Sanson, Matthew Peyghane, William Southwick (Sothewike), John Grange.
Durham Cathedral Muniments: Specialia, 1.5.Spec.35.
Thomas Warde is rather an ordinary name, so I cannot say who this Agnes was, but I note that a Thomas Warde was mayor of Newcastle-upon-Tyne in the 1430's and 1440's. Judging from his arms, he was probably of the family of Warde of Givendale in Yorkshire. He bore azure, a cross patonce, and in sinister chief a mullet or [6]. The Warde of Givendale family bore these arms undifferenced.
Regards,
John
[1] Joseph Foster, ed., The Visitation of Yorkshire, Made in the Years 1584-85 : To Which Is Added the Subsequent Visitation Made in 1612, by Richard St. George, Norroy King of Arms : With Several Additional Pedigrees, 1875, vi.
[2] W. Hylton Dyer Longstaffe, ed., Heraldic Visitation of the Northern Counties in 1530, by Thomas Tonge, Norroy King of Arms, Surtees Society 41, 1863, 25.
[3] Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Series 2, vol. 1, Henry VII (1898), 44, no. 108.
[4] Vicary Gibbs, ed., The Complete Peerage, vol. 2 (London, 1912), 418.
[5] http://reed.dur.ac.uk/xtf/view?docId=ead/dcd/dcdspec.xml
[6] W. Hylton Dyer Longstaffe, ed., Heraldic Visitation of the Northern Counties in 1530, by Thomas Tonge, Norroy King of Arms, Surtees Society 41, 1863, lv.
I recently came across a good example of why we should not place too much reliance on the uncorroborated evidence of visitation pedigrees. In the words of Joseph Foster "I would venture to speak a word of caution as to all Visitations, however full and suggestive, and well worth having. I believe the highest authorities will join with me in saying that they are far from infallible records; that implicit reliance cannot be placed on them, except, perhaps, for the latest three or four generations; and that the ignorance of the gentry as to the maiden names of their grandmothers, and, much more, of their sisters-in-law, was often most astonishing" [1].
One of the earliest heraldic visitations of northern England, that by Thomas Tong, taken in 1530 states that "Syr Rauff Bulmer, knyght, son and heyre of Syr Willyam, maried Joan, doughter of Syr Willyam Bowes, knyght: and he had yssue Syr Willyam Bulmer; and Anne, maried to Marmaduke de la Ryver" [2]. This Sir Ralph Bulmer son of Sir William Bulmer and Elizabeth Eure was born about 1440 and died on 23 June 1486 [3]. Every subsequent visitation pedigree of the Bulmer and Bowes families records the marriage of Joan Bowes with Sir Ralph Bulmer. This identification of the wife of Sir Ralph Bulmer was also accepted by Complete Peerage without question [4]. Apart from the visitation pedigrees, there is no contemporary evidence at all that Joan Bowes married Ralph Bulmer. I have searched in vain for a deed, a charter, a will, a chancery roll entry, or even a bit of heraldry, but I can find nothing.
Recently, when browsing through the online Durham Cathedral Muniments [5], I came across some evidence that even if Ralph Bulmer married Joan Bowes, she was not the mother of his children. The documents in question form part of a series of deeds concerning a Bulmer property in Simonside, county Durham and apparently show that the wife of Sir Ralph Bulmer, and mother of his children was Agnes, daughter of Thomas Warde.
20 April 1485, Appointment by John Eysby vicar of Lytham, William Arnold (Galand cancelled) chaplain, John Megson of Hartlepool burgess, and William Cottes yeoman of Matthew Peighane and John Bicheburne yeomen as their attorneys for the delivery of the seisin of all the lands in the vill and territory of Simonside upon Tyne, formerly called Preston near Jarrow, in Co Durham, to William Bulmer and Ralph Bulmer, sons of Agnes Warde, as more fully appears in their charter.
Durham Cathedral Muniments: Specialia, 1.5.Spec.34
22 April 1485, Grant by John Eysby vicar of Lytham, William Arnold chaplain, John Megson of Hartlepool burgess and William Cottes yeoman, who had been enfoeoffed by Ralph Bulmer miles of all his lands in the vills and fields of Thorpebulmer and Nesbit in Co Durham and the wapentake of Sadberge and in the vill and field of Symonside upon Tyne once called Preston near Jarrow in Co Durham, to William Bulmer and Ralph Bulmer sons of Agnes Warde, daughter of Thomas Warde, of the said lands in Simonside upon Tyne, with remainder to the other sons of Ralph Bulmer and Agnes Warde, and then their daughters of the same couple, and then the right heirs of Ralph Bulmer. Witnesses: Robert Bulmer and William Bulmer armigeres, Thomas White, Robert Day, Robert Sanson, Matthew Peyghane, William Southwick (Sothewike), John Grange.
Durham Cathedral Muniments: Specialia, 1.5.Spec.35.
Thomas Warde is rather an ordinary name, so I cannot say who this Agnes was, but I note that a Thomas Warde was mayor of Newcastle-upon-Tyne in the 1430's and 1440's. Judging from his arms, he was probably of the family of Warde of Givendale in Yorkshire. He bore azure, a cross patonce, and in sinister chief a mullet or [6]. The Warde of Givendale family bore these arms undifferenced.
Regards,
John
[1] Joseph Foster, ed., The Visitation of Yorkshire, Made in the Years 1584-85 : To Which Is Added the Subsequent Visitation Made in 1612, by Richard St. George, Norroy King of Arms : With Several Additional Pedigrees, 1875, vi.
[2] W. Hylton Dyer Longstaffe, ed., Heraldic Visitation of the Northern Counties in 1530, by Thomas Tonge, Norroy King of Arms, Surtees Society 41, 1863, 25.
[3] Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Series 2, vol. 1, Henry VII (1898), 44, no. 108.
[4] Vicary Gibbs, ed., The Complete Peerage, vol. 2 (London, 1912), 418.
[5] http://reed.dur.ac.uk/xtf/view?docId=ead/dcd/dcdspec.xml
[6] W. Hylton Dyer Longstaffe, ed., Heraldic Visitation of the Northern Counties in 1530, by Thomas Tonge, Norroy King of Arms, Surtees Society 41, 1863, lv.
krothinva via
Oct 22, 2015, 6:22:35 AM10/22/15
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I do have one question about the dates you give in your email. You
state that Ralph Bulmer died June 23 1486 per his IPM. Could it be the
date of the IPM, and not his death date, since the Durham cathedral
muniments are date Apr 20 and 22, 1485, over a year earlier. Why would
land be granted to Ralph's sons, if he was still alive? Is it possible
for others to parcel out your land while you are still alive? If Ralph
is still aliv, why did HE not grant the land?
Ken in Va
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson via <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2015 8:36 pm
Subject: Complete Peerage Correction: The Wife of Sir Ralph Bulmer (d.
1486)
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state that Ralph Bulmer died June 23 1486 per his IPM. Could it be the
date of the IPM, and not his death date, since the Durham cathedral
muniments are date Apr 20 and 22, 1485, over a year earlier. Why would
land be granted to Ralph's sons, if he was still alive? Is it possible
for others to parcel out your land while you are still alive? If Ralph
is still aliv, why did HE not grant the land?
Ken in Va
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson via <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wed, Oct 21, 2015 8:36 pm
Subject: Complete Peerage Correction: The Wife of Sir Ralph Bulmer (d.
1486)
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
John Watson
Oct 22, 2015, 11:10:03 AM10/22/15
to
Ralph Bulmer gave land to feoffees for them to grant this land to his sons. Don't ask me why, but that was the way it was done. He had to do this when he was alive, he couldn't very well do it after he died.
In my post, there is a link to the Durham Cathedral Muniments: Specialia
19 April 1485, Appointment by Ralph Bulmer miles of Matthew Peighane and William Southwick (Sothewike) as his attorneys to deliver seisin to Dom John Easby (Eysby) vicar of Lytham, Dom William Arnold chaplain, John Megson of Hartlepool burgess, and William Cottez his serviens, of all his lands in the vills and fields of Thorpe Bulmer and Nesbitt in Co Durham and the wapentake of Sadberge, and in the vill and field of Simonside-upon-Tyne, also known as Preston near Jarrow, in accordance with the recently issued charter.
1.5.Spec.33
Regards,
John
Ian Goddard
Oct 22, 2015, 11:16:03 AM10/22/15
to
On 22/10/15 16:10, John Watson wrote:
> Ralph Bulmer gave land to feoffees for them to grant this land to his sons. Don't ask me why, but that was the way it was done. He had to do this when he was alive, he couldn't very well do it after he died.
IIRC I've seen this in Penistone records, possibly for Rich or
> Ralph Bulmer gave land to feoffees for them to grant this land to his sons. Don't ask me why, but that was the way it was done. He had to do this when he was alive, he couldn't very well do it after he died.
Wordsworth families. I thought that maybe they were executors or the
children were under age. This is only from memory so I'd have to hunt
up the details.
--
Hotmail is my spam bin. Real address is ianng
at austonley org uk
krothinva via
Oct 22, 2015, 4:04:30 PM10/22/15
to gen-me...@rootsweb.com
I guess I should have read the muniment first, before replying..
Ken in Va
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson via <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 22, 2015 11:11 am
Subject: Re: Complete Peerage Correction: The Wife of Sir Ralph Bulmer
Ken in Va
-----Original Message-----
From: John Watson via <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
To: gen-medieval <gen-me...@rootsweb.com>
Subject: Re: Complete Peerage Correction: The Wife of Sir Ralph Bulmer
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