Still More C.P.Peerage Additions: Jane, wife successively of Edward Brooke, 6th Lord Cobham, Christopher Worsley, and Robert Palmer
Douglas Richardson
The authoritative Complete Peerage, 3 (1913): 346 (sub Cobham) has a
good account of the history of Sir Edward Brooke, 6th Lord Cobham, who
died in 1464. Regarding his marriage and death, the following
information is provided:
"He married Elizabeth, daughter of James (Tuchet), Lord Audley, by his
2nd wife, Eleanor, illegitimate daughter of Thomas (Holand), Earl of
Kent. He died 1464, before 8 Nov., when his widow, Joan (sic), had
pardon for having married without license Christopher Worsley, the
King's sevant." END OF QUOTE.
For starters, Sir Edward Brooke, 6th Lord Cobham, actually married
(1st) on or before 2 Feb. 1436/7 Elizabeth Audleu (or Tuchet),
daughter of James Tuchet (or Audley), Knt., 5th Lord Audley, by his
1st wife, Margaret, daughter of William Roos, K.G., 6th Lord Roos of
Helmsley [see Douglas Richardson, Planrtagenet Ancestry (2004): 777,
sources cited]. By this marriage, Sir Edward Brooke had one son,
John, Knt. [7th Lord Cobham], born about 1450, and one daughter,
Elizabeth (wife of Robert Tanfield, Esq., of Gayton,
Northamptonshire).
Following the death of his 1st wife, Elizabeth Audley, Sir Edward
Brooke married (2nd) Jane (or Joan) _____, granddaughter and co-
heiress of Thomas Montague, of Cathanger (in Fivehead), Somerset. By
this marriage, Sir Edward Brooke had one daughter, Jane Brooke (wife
of John Walsh).
Jane, 2nd wife of Sir Edward Brooke, is identified as the
granddaughter and co-heiress of Thomas Montague in the book, The
Particular Description of the County of Somerset (Somerset Rec. Soc.
15) (1900), edited by Bates, page 63. This material may be found at
the following weblink:
Sir Edward Brooke, 6th Lord Cobham, died testate shortly before 7 July
1464. Following his death, his widow, Jane, married (2nd) before 8
Nov. 1464 (date of pardon for marrying without license) Christopher
Worsley, Esq., king’s servant, Sheriff of cos. Somerset and Dorset,
Sheriff of Wiltshire [Reference: Calendar of Patent Rolls]. Jane and
Christopher appear to have had one son, John Worsley, who was living
in 1473 [Reference: Lewis, Middle English Dictionary Pt. W.1 (1952):
85, weblink provided below].
In the period, 1465–1467, Christopher Worsley and his wife, Jane, sued
John Bettiscombe, as surviving feoffee, in Chancery to make an estate
in the manor of Loxton [?Lufton intended], Somerset according to will
of her late husband, Edward Brooke, Lord Cobham. This is indicated by
the following record found in the helpful online National Archives
Catalogue (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp):
"C 1/2/73: Christopher Worsley and Jane his wife v John Bettiscombe:
to compel defendant, as feoffee, to make an estate of manor of Loxton
in Somerset, to Jane, according to the will of her late husband,
Edward Brooke, Lord Cobham. Additional names: Thomas Philip, Thomas
Brooke, Lord Cobham, Reginald Brooke, John Wydeslade of London, and
Christopher Cook of London, gentlemen. Date: 1465-1467." END OF
QUOTE.
A reference to the same Chancery lawsuit may also be found in Cooper,
An Account of the Most Important Public Recs. of Great Britain 1
(1832): 382, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=IZkKAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA382&dq=%22Christopher+Worsley%22
Christopher Worsley, Esq., died about 1470. His widow, Jane, married
(3rd) before 1473 Robert Palmer, Esq., in right of his wife, of
Cathanger (in Fivehead), Somerset [Reference: Lewis, Middle English
Dictionary Pt. W.1 (1952): 85]. The reference to the work by Lewis
may be found at the following weblink:
Jane, then wife of Robert Palmer, Esq., was living 12 October 1479
[Reference: Calendar of Close Rolls, 1476–1485 (1954): 221–222].
Robert Palmer, Esq., was living 1492-1493, when he released his right
in the manor of Cathanger (in Fivehead), Somerset to John Brent
[Reference: Bates, ibid., cited above].
Thereafter the manor of Cathanger (in Fivehead), Somerset passed to
the descendants of Jane Brooke, wife of John Walsh, who was as stated
above the daughter of Sir Edward Brooke, 6th Lord Cobham, by his 2nd
wife, Jane (or Joan). Further information on the Walsh family of
Cathanger may be found in Foss, The Judges of England, 5 (1857):
542-543 (biog. of John Walsh). This material may be viewed at the
following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=CXgDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA542&dq=Walsh+Cathanger
Finally, I should note that Sir Edward Brooke, 6th Lord Cobham, is
ancestral to the current Princes William and Harry of England by way
of his daughter, Jane Brooke, wife of John Walsh.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Douglas Richardson
Additions," not "Still More C.P. Peerage Additions." Ugh.
DR
Douglas Richardson
In my earlier post today, I stated that Jane (or Joan), widow of Sir
Edward Brooke, 6th L:ord Cobham, married (2nd) Christopher Worsley,
Esq., king's servant. I reported in my post that Christopher Worlsey,
Esq., died about 1470.
I've since come across the book, Richard III: A Study of Service
(1989), by Rosemay Horrow. On page 37 of this work, Horrox indicates
that Christopher Worsley a Marshall of the Hall, was one of five men
who died in 1471, either at the Battle of Barnet 14 April 1471 or at
the Battle of Tewkesbury 4 May 1471. This information may be viewed
at the following weblink:
jhigg...@yahoo.com
> Dear Newsgroup ~
See comments below....
[[snip]
>
> For starters, Sir Edward Brooke, 6th Lord Cobham, actually married
> (1st) on or before 2 Feb. 1436/7 Elizabeth Audleu (or Tuchet),
> daughter of James Tuchet (or Audley), Knt., 5th Lord Audley, by his
> 1st wife, Margaret, daughter of William Roos, K.G., 6th Lord Roos of
> Helmsley [see Douglas Richardson, Planrtagenet Ancestry (2004): 777,
> sources cited]. By this marriage, Sir Edward Brooke had one son,
> John, Knt. [7th Lord Cobham], born about 1450, and one daughter,
> Elizabeth (wife of Robert Tanfield, Esq., of Gayton,
> Northamptonshire).
For a fuller discussion of DR's reasoning behind this conclusion, see
the archives of this group for 2000 and 2004. This was apparently
first published, not in RPA, but in Faris' predecessor volume PA2.
>
> Following the death of his 1st wife, Elizabeth Audley, Sir Edward
> Brooke married (2nd) Jane (or Joan) _____, granddaughter and co-
> heiress of Thomas Montague, of Cathanger (in Fivehead), Somerset. By
> this marriage, Sir Edward Brooke had one daughter, Jane Brooke (wife
> of John Walsh).
CP 3:346 does note that the widow of Lord Cobham was named Jane, but
the CP editor (Vicary Gibbs) failed to infer a second marriage from
this, instead appending a "[sic]" and implying that it was Elizabeth
the first wife who was the widow. This conclusion was followed by
such later works are Faris' PA2 and Richardons RPA and MCA - both of
which, however, failed to mention that CP called the widow Jane.
>
> Jane, 2nd wife of Sir Edward Brooke, is identified as the
> granddaughter and co-heiress of Thomas Montague in the book, The
> Particular Description of the County of Somerset (Somerset Rec. Soc.
> 15) (1900), edited by Bates, page 63. This material may be found at
> the following weblink:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=90kJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=Cat...
Actually, this source refers to her as "Elizabeth [not Jane], wife of
Sir Edward Broke, and after his death of Robert Palmer". This is how
she appears in Collinson's Somerset, which is the source for this
source. Note that there is no mention of a Worsley marriage here.
However, it appears that the public records indicate that Collinson
was wrong with regard to the name - although it would be interesting
to know how he made this error.
>
> Sir Edward Brooke, 6th Lord Cobham, died testate shortly before 7 July
> 1464. Following his death, his widow, Jane, married (2nd) before 8
> Nov. 1464 (date of pardon for marrying without license) Christopher
> Worsley, Esq., king’s servant, Sheriff of cos. Somerset and Dorset,
> Sheriff of Wiltshire [Reference: Calendar of Patent Rolls]. Jane and
> Christopher appear to have had one son, John Worsley, who was living
> in 1473 [Reference: Lewis, Middle English Dictionary Pt. W.1 (1952):
> 85, weblink provided below].
>
> In the period, 1465–1467, Christopher Worsley and his wife, Jane, sued
> John Bettiscombe, as surviving feoffee, in Chancery to make an estate
> in the manor of Loxton [?Lufton intended], Somerset according to will
> of her late husband, Edward Brooke, Lord Cobham. This is indicated by
> the following record found in the helpful online National Archives
> Catalogue (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp):
>
> "C 1/2/73: Christopher Worsley and Jane his wife v John Bettiscombe:
> to compel defendant, as feoffee, to make an estate of manor of Loxton
> in Somerset, to Jane, according to the will of her late husband,
> Edward Brooke, Lord Cobham. Additional names: Thomas Philip, Thomas
> Brooke, Lord Cobham, Reginald Brooke, John Wydeslade of London, and
> Christopher Cook of London, gentlemen. Date: 1465-1467." END OF
> QUOTE.
>
> A reference to the same Chancery lawsuit may also be found in Cooper,
> An Account of the Most Important Public Recs. of Great Britain 1
> (1832): 382, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=IZkKAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA382&dq=%22Chri...
>
> Christopher Worsley, Esq., died about 1470. His widow, Jane, married
> (3rd) before 1473 Robert Palmer, Esq., in right of his wife, of
> Cathanger (in Fivehead), Somerset [Reference: Lewis, Middle English
> Dictionary Pt. W.1 (1952): 85]. The reference to the work by Lewis
> may be found at the following weblink:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=aDaxOiR3_cYC&pg=PA85&dq=Robert+Palme....
>
> Jane, then wife of Robert Palmer, Esq., was living 12 October 1479
> [Reference: Calendar of Close Rolls, 1476–1485 (1954): 221–222].
> Robert Palmer, Esq., was living 1492-1493, when he released his right
> in the manor of Cathanger (in Fivehead), Somerset to John Brent
> [Reference: Bates, ibid., cited above].
The subsequent marriage of Lord Cobham's widow to Robert Palmer was
first noted by Rosie Bevan in March 2004. See Chris Phillips' website
of CP corrections.
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/cobhamofkent.shtml
>
> Thereafter the manor of Cathanger (in Fivehead), Somerset passed to
> the descendants of Jane Brooke, wife of John Walsh, who was as stated
> above the daughter of Sir Edward Brooke, 6th Lord Cobham, by his 2nd
> wife, Jane (or Joan). Further information on the Walsh family of
> Cathanger may be found in Foss, The Judges of England, 5 (1857):
> 542-543 (biog. of John Walsh). This material may be viewed at the
> following weblink:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=CXgDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA542&dq=Walsh+Catha...
FWIW, Weaver's edition of the 1551 and 1573 Visitations of Somerset
[1885] refers to the 1st wife of John Walsh of Cathanger [father of
John the judge] as "Jane d. of Thomas and sister of Sir David Brooke
[Sir Edwd. 1573]". The bracketed note apparently indicates that the
two visitations had different versions of her parentage.
>
>Finally, I should note that Sir Edward Brooke, 6th Lord Cobham, is
> ancestral to the current Princes William and Harry of England by way
> of his daughter, Jane Brooke, wife of John Walsh.
>
Yes, I noted the connection of the family of Walsh of Cathanger to
Princes William and Harry in a post to this group in April 2007,
although with considerable information of that family. I'm glad that
you were able to use that and expand upon it.
And of course Sir Edward Brooke, Lord Cobham, is not an ancestor of
the Prince solely through the Walsh family, but also by both children
of his first marriage.
wjhonson
Brooke" of Cathanger and John Walsh is
Ref D1508M/Moger/102
dated 9 Oct 1556
Quitclaim by David Brooke, Knt, Chief Baron of the Exchequer, for the
love which he bears to his nephew (nepos) John Walshe, junior, Esq, to
said John of all his right in the Manors of Catthanger and Stowye, Co
Somers.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
or that Jane was even an heiress to Cathanger is suspect. Rather it
appears that the Manor of Cathanger *most likely* descendend in
moities somehow to both the Brooke *and* Walsh families seperately.
I note a recovery in 1514 "for the benefit of John Walsh and his
heirs" to the Manor of Cathanger. So any attempt to explain Cathanger
has to account for why these Walsh's are holding, and then by 1556 Sir
David Brooke has a portion which he quitclaims to his nephew.
Will Johnson
jhigg...@yahoo.com
This is an intriguing item which, when pursued, casts considerable
doubt on the connection between Brooke of Cobham and Walsh of
Cathanger.
ODNB has a bio of Sir David Brook [or Broke], and HOP 1509-1558 has
bios of both Sir David and his nephew John Walsh the judge. (The
Walsh bio from HOP is available at the Tudorplace website) The HOP
biographies emphasize the political connection between Sir David Broke
and John Walsh the judge, based on their apparent family connection
(uncle and nephew).
IF HOP and ODNB are correct about this relationship, then John Walsh
the judge cannot be a grandson of Sir Edward Brooke, Lord Cobham, as
proposed by DR, because Walsh's uncle Sir David Broke was certainly
not a son of Lord Cobham (his parents are noted in both bios and are
also shown in the 1623 Visitation of Somerset [HSP 11:15]). This
appears to be a case of confusion of individuals with similar family
names (who may have been related, at least per Tudorplace).
The linkage between Brooke of Cobham and Walsh of Cathanger seems to
be based on the following pieces of information:
A. Statements in Collinson's Somerset (and repeated in the Bates item
cited by DR) that (1) Elizabeth [not Jane] the heiress of Cathanger
married "Sir Edward Broke" and then Robert Palmer; and (2) the mother
of John Walsh the judge was the daughter of "Sir Edward Broke". Note
that there is no mention of a Lord Cobham.
B. Records indicating that Jane [not Elizabeth] the wife of Robert
Palmer was previously the wife of Christopher Worsley. Again, no
mention of a Lord Cobham.
C. Records indicating that Jane [not Elizabeth] the widow of Sir
Edward Brooke, Lord Cobham married Christopher Worsley.
The confusion between Elizabeth and Jane as the name of the much-
married wife is one indication of problems in this chain of
information, as is the known parentage of Sir David Broke, the uncle
of John Walsh the judge. In addition, I mentioned earlier that the
1551 Visitation of Somerset gave one version of the parentage of Joan
Broke the the mother of the judge (the connection to Sir David Broke),
while the 1573 Visitation gives a different version (Sir Edward
Broke). Neither version mentions a Lord Cobham.
Based on all this, I suspect that the statements in Collinson's
Somerset are in error and that subsequent authors have erroneously
equated the misnamed Sir Edward Broke in Collinson with Lord Cobham.
Admittedly this leaves unresolved the question of how Robert Palmer
gained an interest in Cathanger, but it's not impossible that he could
have had two wives: the first being Elizabeth the heiress of
Cathanger and the second being Jane the widow successively of Lord
Cobham and Christopher Worsley. A marriage of a widower and a widow
is certainly not unlikely.
The connection between Brooke of Cobham and Walsh of Cathanger
proposed by DR is certainly attractive, but I don't think that the
evidence currently available adequately supports the conclusion - and,
in fact, some critical pieces of the evidence directly contradict the
conclusion.
I would be interested to hear other thoughts and opinions on this
matter. That is, after all, what this group is supposed to be
about!! :--)
al...@mindspring.com
referred to in the Visitation of Somersetshire, p 15.
IF the two Hugh's are the same, then Sir David would be related to Sir
Edward, which may explain some of the confusion.
Doug
al...@mindspring.com
wrote:
And could identify the Jane married to Edward, Lord Cobham as the Jane
verch Richard ap Mericke who married John Brooke. That would make Sir
David Brooke and Jane Brooke brother and sister or half-brother and
sister. Would be nice to find out if there is any documentation to
corroborate this theory.
Doug Smith
al...@mindspring.com
wrote:
Again, pure speculation but IF Thomas Montague of Cathanger had a
daughter married to Richard ap Mericke with two daughters, Jane and
Mary.
Then, Jane married to John Brooke, sergeatn at law (d. 1522). With Sir
David and three other children who dsp, leaving Sir David's sister
Jane Broke to inherit Cathanger (or at least half of it).
This theory leaves Sir Edward Brooke out entirely, fits some of the
facts, and appears to work chronologically.
Again, pure speculation but it appears possible to reconcile some of
the secondary accounts this way. Primary evidence will clearly be
needed to unravel these conflicting secondary accounts.
Doug Smith
jhigg...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Your conjecture would appear to make Sir David Brooke and Jane Brooke
half-brother and half-sister via their (supposed) shared mother Jane
ferch Richard ap Meyrick. Their mother Jane would then have been
(presumably 1st) the 2nd wife of Sir Edward Brooke, Lord Cobham, and
then the wife of Sir Edward's nephew John Brooke. But this conflicts
with the evidence that Jane the widow of Lord Cobham married
Christopher Worsley and Robert Palmer. It also relies on the
coincidence that that the two wives in question are named Jane.
It's an interesting theory but, as you say, documentation to support
it would be desirable. In the meantime, I think that the Brooke of
Cobham connection to Walsh of Cathanger proposed by DR is still flawed.
al...@mindspring.com
One more big if:
IF the unknown Montagu daughter was named Jane she could have been the
the mother of Jane verch Richard and also the Jane who was the second
wife of Sir Edward Brooke. The onamastics makes sense as does the
chronology. It would also explain some of the confusion as the Jane
Brooke who married John Walsh would have been the step-daughter of Sir
Edward Brooke (who apparently have married the widow of his cousin
John Brooke as his second wife).
Pretty convoluted and purely speculative.
al...@mindspring.com
See my last two posts, i made it more convoluted! Clearly needs a
heck of a lot of documentation. I do agree that it appears that Jane
was not the daughter of Sir Edward Brooke.
Doug Smith
Doug Smith
wjhonson
Sir Edward Brooke. John thank you for alerting me to the existence of
another Vis Somerset which I did not have listed, and which I note,
with a certain amount of glee, neither did Chris Phillips (for once).
I'm usually tailgating him.
At any rate, I have found a copy of same here.
http://books.google.com/books?id=nPUGAAAAYAAJ&printsec=titlepage&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0
And have now added it to my Sources page
http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb/index.php/Sources
Will Johnson
wjhonson
I believe that part of the problem could be resolved if we could
examine more closely *exactly* how the Manor of Cathanger descended
from 1500 to 1600.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
COURTENAY OF POWDERHAM
Catalogue Ref. D1508M
Creator(s): Courtenay family, Earls of Devon
MOGER DEEDS
FILE [no title] - ref. D1508M/Moger/44 - date: 3 June 1564
[from Scope and Content] Release by John Walshe of Stowey, Co.
Somerset, Esq. to John Walshe, one of the Justices of Queen's Bench,
his Son, and Heir Apparent ?. (filio meo apparen) of all his claim in
the mansion house of Cathanger in Manor of Cathanger, Co. Somerset,
with app. in Cathanger, Stowey, and in Parish of Fyffett, Co. Somerset.
wjhonson
Devon Record Office: Courtenay of Powderham
COURTENAY OF POWDERHAM
Catalogue Ref. D1508M
Creator(s): Courtenay family, Earls of Devon
MOGER DEEDS
FILE [no title] - ref. D1508M/Moger/68 - date: 5 December 1536
[from Scope and Content] Charter of John Walshe of Cathanger, Co.
Somerset, Cleric, granting to Edward Karne, Doctor of Laws, all his
land and tenements undermentioned, namely, a close called Asshecroft,
a parcel of land called Oxynlese, a close called Fouracres, a parcel
called Cristencrofts, closes called tenne acres, le Hyer Brodefelds,
Parkeland, Smokelande, Housecloses, the Coome, which Robert Mede now
holds; also a cottage which John Hurne now holds, a parcel called
Reddefelde which John Wever holds, a close called Looselease which
said John Wever now holds and also a tenement which Alexander Hobbes
now holds, a close called Sarte with 8 acres in Langford felde now in
tenure of John Sawcer and a close called Longlease which Thomas Bonde
holds and also a tenement now in tenure of John Strowde; all in
Cathanger, Co. Somerset.
wjhonson
FILE [no title] - ref. D1508M/Moger/325 - date: 10 February 1572
[from Scope and Content] Indenture made 10 Feb. 14 Eliz. (1572)
between John Walshe, one of the Queenes Majestys of Comen plees (sic)
on one part and Thomas Iseham of Ilbrewers, Co. Somerset, and my
trustye sarvant (sic) Nycholas Sympson, Gentleman, of the other part,
witnessing that whereas John Walshe has heretofore levied a fine to
John Pyne and the said Nycholas Sympson of his Manor of Cathanger and
of 20 messuages, 500 acres of land, 100 acres of meddowe, 300 acres of
pasture and 100 acres of wood in Fyfett, Stowage and Corye Mallett and
of common of pasture for all cattle in Sedgemore, this fine being
levied to uses contained in a pair of indentures dated 5 June, 10
Eliz. (1568) made between said John Walshe and Edmond Ploden of
Shiplake, Co. Berks, Esq, until such time as said John Walshe should
declare other uses, and whereas said John Walshe did since the making
of this indenture levy another fine of the said Manor to the said
Edmond Ploden and Thomas Spilman Esq, and the said Thomas Iseham and
Nycholas Sympson Gentlemen, which fine was to the uses contained in
the former indenture.
[from Scope and Content] John Walshe now declares that the said
fines and the state of the said trustees in the Manor of Cathanger and
a close called Cathanger Orcharde and the new enclosed ground
adjoining, lately enclosed by William Johnson, deceased, and the
ground enclosed by Nicholas Salysburye deceased, lying in the north
east part of Fyfett feld and now in the tenure of John Marsfeld the
younger, and the wood containing 7 acres now in the tenure of John
Walshe and also the land, pasture, and wood, now in the tenure of
Robert Brokehame, in the Parish of Fyfett, Co. Somerset, all which
shall be to the use of said John Walshe and the heirs male of his
body, and for default, to the use of Edward Seamor Esq, (son of Edward
Seamor Knt and Dame Mary his late wife, daughter of the said John
Walshe and Jane his wife late by deceased) Thomas Walshe, halfbrother
of said John Walshe, Lucy Browghton, now wife of Thomas Browghton Esq,
one of the sisters of John Walshe, George Salysburye, son of Anne
Salysburye, decd, one other of the sisters of said John, and Anne
Spylman, now wife of Thomas Spylman Esq, in tail male successively,
with remainder in default to the right heirs of John Walshe. John
retains power to alter the uses at any time.
[from Scope and Content] Endorsed. The counterpayne of the
covenants for Cathanger.
al...@mindspring.com
Excellent finds Will. Includes all his reversionary heirs. Too bad
he didn't tell us the heirs male. Somerset Vis. gives that as Morris
(Maurice) Walsh.
Doug Smith
al...@mindspring.com
wrote:
> On Apr 24, 10:58 pm, wjhonson <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > John Walsh, with his own mouth, tells us who his heirs are....
>
> > FILE [no title] - ref. D1508M/Moger/325 - date: 10 February 1572
> > [from Scope and Content] Indenture made 10 Feb. 14 Eliz. (1572)
> > between John Walshe, one of the Queenes Majestys of Comen plees (sic)
> > on one part and Thomas Iseham of Ilbrewers, Co. Somerset, and my
> > trustye sarvant (sic) Nycholas Sympson, Gentleman, of the other part,
> > witnessing that whereas John Walshe has heretofore levied a fine to
> > John Pyne and the said Nycholas Sympson of his Manor ofCathangerand
> > of 20 messuages, 500 acres of land, 100 acres of meddowe, 300 acres of
> > pasture and 100 acres of wood in Fyfett, Stowage and Corye Mallett and
> > of common of pasture for all cattle in Sedgemore, this fine being
> > levied to uses contained in a pair of indentures dated 5 June, 10
> > Eliz. (1568) made between said John Walshe and Edmond Ploden of
> > Shiplake, Co. Berks, Esq, until such time as said John Walshe should
> > declare other uses, and whereas said John Walshe did since the making
> > of this indenture levy another fine of the said Manor to the said
> > Edmond Ploden and Thomas Spilman Esq, and the said Thomas Iseham and
> > Nycholas Sympson Gentlemen, which fine was to the uses contained in
> > the former indenture.
> > [from Scope and Content] John Walshe now declares that the said
> > fines and the state of the said trustees in the Manor ofCathangerand
> > adjoining, lately enclosed by William Johnson, deceased, and the
> > ground enclosed by Nicholas Salysburye deceased, lying in the north
> > east part of Fyfett feld and now in the tenure of John Marsfeld the
> > younger, and the wood containing 7 acres now in the tenure of John
> > Walshe and also the land, pasture, and wood, now in the tenure of
> > Robert Brokehame, in the Parish of Fyfett, Co. Somerset, all which
> > shall be to the use of said John Walshe and the heirs male of his
> > body, and for default, to the use of Edward Seamor Esq, (son of Edward
> > Seamor Knt and Dame Mary his late wife, daughter of the said John
> > Walshe and Jane his wife late by deceased) Thomas Walshe, halfbrother
> > of said John Walshe, Lucy Browghton, now wife of Thomas Browghton Esq,
> > one of the sisters of John Walshe, George Salysburye, son of Anne
> > Salysburye, decd, one other of the sisters of said John, and Anne
> > Spylman, now wife of Thomas Spylman Esq, in tail male successively,
> > with remainder in default to the right heirs of John Walshe. John
> > retains power to alter the uses at any time.
> > [from Scope and Content] Endorsed. The counterpayne of the
> > covenants forCathanger.
>
> Excellent finds Will. Includes all his reversionary heirs. Too bad
> he didn't tell us the heirs male. Somerset Vis. gives that as Morris
> (Maurice) Walsh.
>
> Doug Smith
Except that Visitation appears to conflate two John Walsh's. One
married to Anne Poyntz and one married to Anne Dingley. The one who
married Anne Poyntz was from Little Sodbury and son of a John Walsh
said to have married Elizabeth d. and h. of Richard Forster (See
Francis Frederick Fox, The History of the Parishes of Old Sodbury and
of Little Sodbury, and of the ..., (1907), p 33). They had the son
Maurice of Little Sodbury.
It is not clear that this is the same John Walsh that married Anne
Dingley as shown in the Visitations of the County of Somerset in the
Years 1551 and 1573, ed. Frederic Weaver, Exeter, (1885), pps 86-87.
Clearly a lot more digging to do.
Doug Smith
jhigg...@yahoo.com
Be careful with the visitation pedigrees of the Walsh families. This
comment from the HOP 1509-1558 bio of John Walsh the judge is
informative:
"John Walshe, who is to be distinguished from several namesakes
resident in Gloucestershire, Warwickshire and Worcestershire, came
from a minor Somerset family. In the heralds’ visitations for
Gloucestershire and Somerset he appears to have been confused with one
of his namesakes, Sir John Walshe of Little Sodbury, Gloucestershire,
leaving the identity of his wife uncertain."
al...@mindspring.com
yep
Doug Smith