ALINE GAY/GAI/?GAEL

[Richard Borthwick]

In a post of 20 Jun 1999 with the subject line 're: SIR PHILIP BASSET',
Douglas Richardson wrote:

"Thanks Robert for setting out the ancestry of Sir Philip Basset. Just one
correction/addition. Sir Philip's mother, Aline de Gay, was the daughter and
co-heiress of Philip de Gay (not Gray), by his wife, Cecily/Sedzilia. Philip
de Gay in turn appears to have been the son of a Stephen de Gay, by his wife,
Aline Pipard, the divorced wife of John le Marshal. As such, Aline de Gay
was
a near step-relation to William Marshall, Earl of Pembroke."

I have a puzzle with this correction/addition. David Crouch in his article
"Robert of Gloucester's mother and sexual politics in Norman Oxfordshire"
in *Historical Research* 72 no.179 (Oct 1999):323-333 discusses the Gay/Gai
family in some greater detail than he does in *William Marshal: Court,
Career and Chivalry in the Angevin Empire 1147-1219* (Longman: London/New
York, 1990). The Philip (d.1177) son of Stephen (d. after 1154) succeeded
his father in Northbrook Gay, Oxfordshire. Philip's son and heir was Adam
(I) who in turn was followed by his son and heir, Thomas, who in turn was
succeeded by his son, Adam (II) (living in 1240). So Aline (mother of Sir
Philip Basset) was either not a coheir of her father (contra to CP) or else
her father, Philip, was not Philip Gay (d.1177). It might be that the 1177
Philip had a younger son of the same name who left coheirs or else we are
dealing with a quite different family??

Also, from the 1999 article it would appear that Stephen Gay married twice
(Aline /Adeline Pippard was his second wife). The clear indication that the
1177 Philip's mother was not Aline/Adeline Pippard is Crouch's account of
Philip's career and his estimate of Philip's age in 1177, namely about 60
[p.324, 327]. The Pippard/Gay union took place probably about 1145.
Philip's wife was named 'Hilda' and she was around in 1192. These points
might suggest that if we do indeed have the right family then Stephen may
have had a son, also called 'Philip' by his second wife. This "scenario" is
not unheard of, but in the absence of positive evidence it is not a
suggestion that carries much plausibility.

Is Sir Philip Basset's mother a member of this quite interesting family? If
so, how does she fit in and what is the evidence for it? Or, does she
belong to a quite different family with the name 'de Gael'?

[Douglas Richardson]

Hi Richard:

I'm glad you raised the points you did. Actually Mr. Crouch's
recent article is one of the worst medieval articles I've read
to date written by a serious historian. He got several major
points wrong in his article including Philip de Gay's age, the
name of his wife, the names of his children, the identity of his
mother, and the locations of his other land holdings. He
overlooked or never bothered to examine references to the Gay
family in the STANDARD published texts for this period, which
material can be EASILY found in most major university
libraries. He likewise missed references in the literature to
not one, but THREE kinfolk of Robert, Earl of Gloucester,
including one mentioned in the Earl's own charter, which charter
can be consulted in the published charters of Earldom of
Gloucester available in print. In short, Mr. Crouch's article
is misleading, inadequate, and poorly researched. Needless to
say, the article is a great disappointment.

Best always, Douglas Richardson

In article
<3.0.1.32.2000031...@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>,

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[Richard Borthwick]

Thank you for your general reply and your overall impression of Crouch's
paper. What precisely are the references and the mistakes you refer to?