SYBIL of NORTHUMBRIA

[PEhlers531]

Malcolm III of Scotland was married to Sybil of Northumbria. Who were her
parents? Thanks in advance for your help.
Regards
Phyllis

[Todd A. Farmerie]

PEhlers531 wrote:
>
> Malcolm III of Scotland was married to Sybil of Northumbria. Who were her
> parents? Thanks in advance for your help.

Sybil (if that was really her name) was mother of Malcolm, and she was a
kinswoman of Siward, Earl of Northumberland, but th eexact nature of the
relationship is unclear.

taf

[UTZ]

In a message dated 4/28/98 3:30:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
PEhle...@aol.com writes:

> Malcolm III of Scotland was married to Sybil of Northumbria. Who were her
> parents? Thanks in advance for your help.

> Regards
> Phyllis
>
I have:

Edward The Exile & Agatha of Hungary, aka Also called Agatha von Braunschweig:
notes on Edward:

Edward the Exile (Outlaw) (Atheling) fled the country and lived at the court
of
Hungary until recalled by his father's half-brother, Edward the Confessor.
He was never crowned king, as he died in London immediately after his return
in 1057, and was buried at St. Paul's Cathedral. While on the continent, he
married Agatha of Hungary, daughter of Emperor Henry II. of Germany (Bruno of
Germany). Edward was the founder of the House of Burgoyne.

Always optimistic--Dave

[Todd A. Farmerie]

UTZ wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/28/98 3:30:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> PEhle...@aol.com writes:
>
> > Malcolm III of Scotland was married to Sybil of Northumbria. Who were her
> > parents? Thanks in advance for your help.
> > Regards
> > Phyllis
> >
> I have:
>
> Edward The Exile & Agatha of Hungary, aka Also called Agatha von Braunschweig:
> notes on Edward:
>

These are the parents of Margaret, Malcolm's second wife. As was
recently discussed on s.hist.med, the traditional assignment of
Malcolm's first wife as widow of Thorfinn doesn't hold water, for
chronological reasons. She was perhaps a daughter instead?

> Edward the Exile (Outlaw) (Atheling) fled the country and lived at the court
> of Hungary until recalled by his father's half-brother, Edward the Confessor.
> He was never crowned king, as he died in London immediately after his return
> in 1057, and was buried at St. Paul's Cathedral. While on the continent, he
> married Agatha of Hungary, daughter of Emperor Henry II. of Germany (Bruno of
> Germany).

While on the continent (probably in Russia) he married Agatha, called by
some sources niece of Emperor Henry (whether this was Henry II or Henry
II is not specified in the original source), but by others kinswoman of
the King of Hungary. Various modern interpretations include that she
was daughter of St. Stephen of Hungary (by Gisela, sister of Emp. Henry
II), that she was daughter of Bruno of Augsburg (brother of Henry II),
that she was daughter of Liudolph of Brunswick (half-brother of Henry
III), or that she was daughter of Yaroslav I of Russia (and hence
sister-in-law of Andrew, King of Hungary). The first two can be readily
dismissed. The latter two are still being hotly contested.

> Edward was the founder of the House of Burgoyne.

This is not true. There are no documented male descendants beyond his
son, or perhaps a grandson, while a female line from his son that was
argued by Manteyer seems to have lost favor. The only commonly accepted
descent from Edward is through Margaret, wife of Malcolm. If by House
of Burgoyne you mean Burgundy, one of these was descended from the
Capets and the other from King Berenger II of Italy.

taf

[Carol Sadler]

----------
From: Todd A. Farmerie[SMTP:ta...@po.cwru.edu]
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 1998 1:38 PM
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: SYBIL of NORTHUMBRIA

taf

I have Malcolm's wife as Saint Margaret, and her father as Edward the Confessor. Was Malcolm married twice to Margarets or is this correct and her father was Edward Atheling (above) rather than Edward the Confessor? My source is a posting on this list in the past, have it but not right in front of me. I have as son, David I, King of Scotland. I am new to this Medieval Genealogy bit, although I have always been interested in Medieval History and times (although not a History major, business in stead). Thank you. CJS

[Maud Lacy]

Todd A. Farmerie[SMTP:ta...@po.cwru.edu],
on Thursday, April 30, 1998 1:38 PM, wrote

>While on the continent (probably in Russia) he married Agatha, called by
>some sources niece of Emperor Henry (whether this was Henry II or Henry
>II is not specified in the original source), but by others kinswoman of
>the King of Hungary. Various modern interpretations include that she
>was daughter of St. Stephen of Hungary (by Gisela, sister of Emp. Henry
>II), that she was daughter of Bruno of Augsburg (brother of Henry II),
>that she was daughter of Liudolph of Brunswick (half-brother of Henry
>III), or that she was daughter of Yaroslav I of Russia (and hence
>sister-in-law of Andrew, King of Hungary). The first two can be readily
>dismissed. The latter two are still being hotly contested.

I have, in various sources, encountered all 4 of the above claims for parentage
of Agatha (and also that she was daughter of Emperor Henry II, who apparently d
s.p.). My source for her father being Yaroslav I was not a reliable one, & I
did not realize that this was a definite possibility. Further, I was impressed
by Moriarty's argument that she was daughter of St Stephen, which you state can
be dismissed. Athough I have in my notes that Ludolph von Braunschweig has
recently been considered the most likely father, I do not know the details of
that claim.

Would you be willing to elaborate on your statements, or direct me to the
appropriate sources?

Marley Hall

[KHF333]

I am wanting to publish an article on this when all the dust settles down. The
last I have is the New England Historical and Genealogical Record for Oct 1996
amd the article "Is the Mystery of the Origin of Agatha, Wife of Edward the
Exile Finally Solved" by Rene Jette.

Please keep me informed of future developments.

- Ken

Kenneth Harper Finton
Editor, THE PLANTAGENET CONNECTION

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