Looking For John Payne, Sr. Lineage In Va. to The English Payne's

[marianne dillow]

My direct line is :
i. Richard Eltonhead and Ann Sutton
ii. Martha Eltonhead and Edwin Conway, Sr.
iii. Eltonhead Conway and Henry Thacker, Sr.
iv. Henry Thacker, Jr. and Elizabeth Payne.
 
Elizabeth Payne is the daughter of John Payne, Jr. and Sarah Walker, daughter of Col. John Walker... John Payne, Jr. is the son of John Payne, Sr.  and Margaret Robinson / Jennings ? May have married twice. John, Sr. is the one I am seeking English Info on.
 
John Payne, Sr. was born ca 1615 in England and died 1689-1690 in Rappahannock Co., Va and buried in Westmoreland Co., Va. at Red Hill, (now Cedar Hill in Westmoreland)  . He migrated to Virginia 1653. In 1654 he made a trip to England and in established his residence on Pepetick Creek now known as Peedee Creek in Va.. On 7 Feb 1659-60 he submitted a bill for transporting 1500 lbs of pork to Jamestown. He stated he was 44 years old and this is the source for his bithdate.  He expanded his land to Richmond,  and Rappahannock Co., Va.
 
In Virginia the most important date is 19 May 1686 Deposiion of John King. This named John Paine, Jr. ; Richard Paine; and George Paine; and John Paine, Senior., Rappahannock, Va.  
 
As resarch continues in England here is where we are at :

 
Here's the visitation of 1613 for Sir Robert Payne's family.  Unfortunately for us, John Payne was born after 1613, around 1615 so he wouldn't be in the visitation.  From church records, all of Sir Robert Payne's children have been accounted for and John wasn't one of them.  We Payne researchers believe that  John Payne was a descendant of the Southoe branch of the Huntingdonshire family but  think that the Winteringham family is a good possibility as well.  From the visitation of 1613, there is a Robert Payne, Esq. who married Elizabeth Belby.  He had a son named John born after 1613.  He also had sons named Robert and William.  The oral tradition for John Payne was that his father was Robert Payne and that he had brothers named William and Robert. The Winteringham family fits the tradition very well.   Here are some notes :
 
An abundance of circumstantial evidence supports the tradition that he was a member of the wealthy Payne family of Huntingdonshire, England, most likely a member of the Winteringham or Southoe branch of that family.
He could have been the son of Robert and Elizabeth (Bellay or Belby) Payne of Winteringham for the following reasons:
1. John Payne of Virginia was born about 1615 and Robert Payne, Esquire, of Winteringham had a son named John born after 1613 who is mentioned in his will probated in 1654.
2.  John Payne of Virginia returned to England in 1654 for a time.  If Robert Payne, Esq. of Winteringham was his father then it makes sense that John would return there in 1654 since Robert Payne, Esq. died around that time.
3.  Onomastics:  The father of Robert Payne, Esq., was Edward Payne of Winteringham, and Robert Payne, Esq. had a son named Edward as well as a son named William.  John Payne of Virginia had a son named William and a grandson named Edward.
4.  According to oral tradition, John Payne of Virginia had brothers named William and Robert, and he was related to a Sir Robert Payne in some way.  Robert Payne, Esq. had sons named William and Robert, and a cousin Sir Robert Payne of St. Neot's who was married to Dame Elizabeth (Rotherham) Payne, daughter of Sir George Rotherham of Somerys, Bedfordshire.
According to church records, John Payne of Virginia was not the son of Sir Robert and Dame Elizabeth (Rotherham) Payne of St. Neot's as previously thought by many including myself although he was probably related to them.
He may have been a member of the Southoe family for the following reasons:
 
He was associated with the Thoroughgoods as was the Southoe family.
The Huntingdonshire family is widely believed to have descended from Sir Thomas Payne and Lady Margaret Pulteney of Leicestershire, and the oral tradition of the Huntingdonshire family and an abundance of circumstantial evidence supports this assertion.  Lady Margaret Pulteney was most likely the daughter of Sir Thomas Pulteney of Misterton who died in 1507, and of Rose Wythemail or Withemale.
 
If anyone has any knowledge on the Payne / Paine line in England I would appreciate any information.
 
Marianne Dillow
 

[Renia]

In the 1841 census for England there were:
10,769 people called Payne
488 people called Payn
4,186 people called Pain
3,254 people called Paine

That's 18,697 people called Payne (or variant) altogether. That makes it
quite a common surname.

In 1851, the total was
13,706 people called Payne [33,002 in 1901]
436 people called Payn [438 in 1901]
3,639 people called Pain [2473 in 1901]
3,372 people called Paine [3808 in 1901]
Or 21,153 people called Payne (or variant) altogether [40,451 in 19001]

On the other hand, in the 1841 census for England, there were:
194 people called Dillow [201 in 1851; 358 in 1901]
235 people called Dellow [369 in 1851; 633 in 1901]

This may help to put the Payne surname into perspective. Within 60
years, the numbers of people with this common surname doubled in
England. Who knows how many emigrated to the US, Australia, and
elsewhere? You are not looking for the "Payne line" but very numerous
"Payne lines".

[marianne dillow]

Not really, I have a Payne cousin who made trips to England  looking for records back in the 1600's and came to the conclusion the Paynes that I posted were kin to each other leaving us with finding the parents of John Payne, Sr., among them,  born 1615 in England and died 1689-1690 in Virginia, among the ones I posted on. We are only concerned in the 1600 time period.
 
I am surprised on my Dillow surname you have data on. The surname is "very rare."   The earliest we have been able to prove is Peter Dillow, Sr who was born in  1757 in Virginia and died at a late age, 1851 in Berkeley Co., Va and his land was sold to John Washington.  Since we never got across the pond I have never known if the Dillow name was English or what. Thanks for the data.
 
Marianne Dillow 

 
 
--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

"Payne lines".

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[Renia]

marianne dillow wrote:
> Not really, I have a Payne cousin who made trips to England looking for records back in the 1600's and came to the conclusion the Paynes that I posted were kin to each other leaving us with finding the parents of John Payne, Sr., among them, born 1615 in England and died 1689-1690 in Virginia, among the ones I posted on. We are only concerned in the 1600 time period.

You might be concerned with only the 1600 time period, but the data I
gave shows a growth rate for the name from 1841 onwards, and it double
in 60 years in England. Using the same maths, this suggest the Payne
(etc) population of England in about 1780, may have been about half that
of 1841, that is, about 10,000. By the same rough calculation, the Payne
population in about 1720, may have been about 5,000, in 1660, about
2,500, and in 1600, about 1,250. Now, these are not exact figures, of
course, just a guide.

If you look at the Dillow/Dellow data, much the same happened. If you
half, half, half and half again, then the Dillow (etc) population around
1600 would be possibly around 26. I doubt these figures are remotely
accurate. They are merely comparitive. The rarity of the Dillow name
suggests a common ancestor. The common nature of the Payne surname
suggests multiple-origin families, from all over the country.

[marianne dillow]

Thanks Renia,
 
  I know the Payne .. Paine ..name is common but we had pinpointed our line down to the ones posted and that time period.
 
Dillow is so rare your figures do astound me. LOL !  And it isn't Dillon as some might think. My grandfather who was in the War of 1812 changed his name back to Dillow when they by mistake had him written doown as a Dillon.  :)
 
Marianne Dillow 

--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

From: Renia <re...@DELETEotenet.gr>
Subject: Re: Looking For John Payne, Sr. Lineage In Va. to The English Payne's
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com

[marianne dillow]

[david11...@gmail.com]

Having Paines from St Neots in my own tree, although not, so far as I
can establish, connected to the family in the 1613 Visitation, your
query piqued my curiosity. The Payne researchers have posted a lot of
interesting material on the internet, but the whole hypothesis seems
to centre around the 1622 will of Robert Payne, a salter, of London,
which attempts to establish a link to John Payne of Virginia via the
Thoroughgoods.

You seem to be hedging your bets in that you say you believe he was
from the Southoe branch, but on the other hand he could have been from
the Winteringham (sic) branch (Wintringham was a hamlet of St Neots;
Winteringham is in Lincolnshire ).

'Parishes: Midloe', A History of the County of Huntingdon: Volume 2
(1932), pp. 318-319. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=42507'Parishes:
Midloe', A History of the County of Huntingdon: Volume 2 (1932), pp.
318-319. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=42507
says “The present house was probably built by Robert Payne, of St.
Neots, about 1590. He, his son, Sir Robert Payne, and grandson,
another Robert, are described as of Midloe and doubtless lived here”.
Is this the family that you refer to as the Southoe branch?

VCH Hunts goes on to state that Sir Robert and his son and heir
Robert (presumably the Robert aged 9 in 1613 shown in the Visitation)
were dealing with the manor in 1629, citing Lansd. MS. 921, fol. 40;
Feet of F. Hunts. East. 4 Chas. I. There’s a probate on the TNA site
of Robert Payne of Southoe dated 24 Nov 1632 which may be Sir Robert,
although it could just as easily be the son born 1604. It would cost
£3-50 to download the will to find out. You would then find out if
it's the will of Sir Robert, whether he names a son John as a
beneficiary.

'Parishes: St Neots', A History of the County of Huntingdon: Volume 2
(1932), pp. 337-346. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=42512
“A considerable estate in Wintringham, which probably represented the
holding of the priory here, was obtained on lease by Robert Payne
before 1566. He and his family played an important part in the history
of St. Neots town during the following hundred years. They seem to
have acquired the fee of the whole or part of the estate, and Robert
Payne obtained a grant of free warren in his lands in Wintringham in
1616. The family appears to have lived at Upper Wintringham till about
1672.”
and
“In 1588 an Inquisition was held as to the state of the bridge, which
it appears had lately been newly built by Edward Payne, bailiff of the
manor, at a cost of £583 1s.”
and
“The St. Neots mills were let on lease at the time of the Dissolution,
but were granted in 1547 to Robert Payne. In 1604, the water-mills and
a malt mill were in the hands of the Paynes”

So there was just the one family in St Neots/Wintringham, part of
which split off to Midloe in 1590.

You say “John Payne of Virginia was not the son of Sir Robert and Dame

Elizabeth (Rotherham) Payne of St. Neot's as previously thought by
many including myself although he was probably related to them. He may

have been a member of the Southoe family” Sir Robert & Elizabeth
(Rotheram) Payne were of Midloe. Aren’t Southoe and Midloe the same
family? You’ve got me confused! However there are quite a few Payne
burials in Southoe 1561-1635, although no Roberts or Edwards (NBI).
Bear in mind that Midloe didn’t have a church so inhabitants used
either Southoe or Gt Staughton for baptisms, marriages or burials.

You say the will of Robert Payne of St Neots/ Wintringham was probated
in 1654. There’s a will on TNA of Robert Payne of St Neots probated on
29 June 1655 –is this the same one? If so how does it describe John?
“My son John Payne” or “my son John Payne of Virginia”?

I can’t see how the will dated 1622 of Robert Payne of London connects
to the Huntingdonshire Paynes. There’s no mention of Hunts in it; he
leaves £100 to the town of Basingstoke, Hampshire (Hants); and the
brothers and sisters that he names are not mentioned in the Hunts
Visitation. But which Robert would it be? Robert son of Edward died
1654/5, so it’s not him. Robert of St Neots who purchased Midloe died
in 1603; his son Sir Robert and Sir Robert’s son Robert b 1604 were
both alive in 1629, so it’s none of these three either.

If Thoroughgood is a real connection to your John, rather than a
contrived one, then it seems to me as though you should be looking in
Basingstoke, Hants, rather than St Neots Hunts. The IGI, extracted
entry so reliable, has the baptism of Robert Paine at Basingstoke on 2
Jan 1665, son of Robert & Joane, so there were Robert Paynes living in
that town.

Unfortunately the St Neots parish register for the early 1600s is
missing, as are the Bishops’ transcripts for the period 1613-17, so
you’re unlikely to find out if there was a John baptised c1615

So far I’ve seen nothing but speculation that John Payne of Virginia
might be a John Payne from St Neots. As Renia pointed out, Paynes were
two a penny at that time, and it’s going to be difficult to prove
which one it was that emigrated.

David

[Chuck Owens]

Hi David,

I will try to respond to your inquiries with the information that I
have on the John Payne of VA -Huntingdonshire connection.

"the whole hypothesis seems to centre around the 1622 will of Robert
Payne, a salter, of London, which attempts to establish a link to John
Payne of Virginia via the Thoroughgoods"

Yes, your statement is essentially correct but there are other
characters mentioned in the will which seem to have at least a tenuous
if not direct connection to John Payne of VA. The name Florentine
Payne is mentioned in the will. A Florentine Payne in VA was known to
have had a business association with Col. Richard Lee I who in turn
was the neighbor of John Payne of Virginia. Regarding the
Thoroughgood connection, Anne Constable Lee, wife of Col. Richard Lee
I, had been under the guardianship of Sir John Thoroughgood. A John
Withers is also mentioned in the will and a Captain John Payne of the
ship "John and Dorothy" who has been tentatively identified with John
Payne of VA, had a servant named John Withers and also transported
goods for Adam Thoroughgood and his brother Sir John Thoroughgood, the
same Sir John Thoroughgood that was guardian of Anne Constable, Col.
Richard Lee I's wife. All of it is just circumstantial evidence and
speculation but the evidence does seem to point to a connection
between John Payne of VA and Robert Payne, a salter in London.

"VCH Hunts goes on to state that Sir Robert and his son and heir
Robert  (presumably the Robert aged 9 in 1613 shown in the Visitation)
were dealing with the manor in 1629, citing Lansd. MS. 921, fol. 40;
Feet of F. Hunts. East. 4 Chas. I.  There’s a probate on the TNA site
of Robert Payne of Southoe dated 24 Nov 1632 which may be Sir Robert,
although it could just as easily be the son born 1604. It would cost
£3-50 to download the will to find out. You would then find out if
it's the will of Sir Robert, whether he names a son John as a
beneficiary."

I have actually examined Robert Payne's will and he was the son of Sir
Robert Payne of Midloe. He doesn't mention a brother John Payne
neither does his mother Lady Elizabeth (Rotherham) Payne.

"You say the will of Robert Payne of St Neots/ Wintringham was
probated in 1654. There’s a will on TNA of Robert Payne of St Neots
probated on 29 June 1655 –is this the same one? If so how does it
describe John? “My son John Payne” or “my son John Payne of
Virginia”?"

It just describes him as "my son John Payne. It doesn't mention that
John Payne was in Virginia.

"I can’t see how the will dated 1622 of Robert Payne of London
connects to the Huntingdonshire Paynes. There’s no mention of Hunts in
it; he leaves £100 to the town of Basingstoke, Hampshire (Hants); and
the brothers and sisters that he names are not mentioned in the Hunts
Visitation. But which Robert would it be? Robert son of Edward died
1654/5, so it’s not him. Robert of St Neots who purchased Midloe died
in 1603; his son Sir Robert and Sir Robert’s son Robert b 1604 were
both alive in 1629, so it’s none of these three either."

"If Thoroughgood is a real connection to your John, rather than a
contrived one, then it seems to me as though you should be looking in
Basingstoke, Hants, rather than St Neots Hunts. The IGI, extracted
entry so reliable, has the baptism of Robert Paine at Basingstoke on 2
Jan 1665, son of Robert & Joane, so there were Robert Paynes living in
that town."

This is a very interesting point that you make. Years ago I did a
search at IGI and found an extracted record for a Florentine Payne in
Hampshire. So maybe John Payne of VA belongs to to the Hampshire
Payne family. Obviously this avenue needs to be explored in greater
detail.

"So far I’ve seen nothing but speculation that John Payne of Virginia
might be a John Payne from St Neots. As Renia pointed out, Paynes were
two a penny at that time, and it’s going to be difficult to prove
which one it was that emigrated."

Yes. It's all just circumstantial evidence and speculation. I think
the Hampshire connection may be worth pursuing.

Chuck Owens

[david11...@gmail.com]

Hi Chuck

I think you've got to the nub of my reservations - that whilst Robert
Payne, salter of London, may well be connected to John Payne of VA,
given the other names mentioned in his will, there's nothing that I
can see in it that connects the testator to Hunts. The fact that he
set up a substantial charity in Basingstoke Hampshire, and in no other
parish, implies to me that he was connected to that town, rather than
to St Neots 100 miles away, and Basingstoke is where I'd be
concentrating my research.

I have since noticed that in the original 1609 member list of the
Virginia Company of London he is listed as "Sir Robert Payne, Knight".
Yet the Midloe Robert Payne did not become a knight of the shire until
1614 when he was elected to parliament. This again raises a red flag
for me - that we are looking at two distinct Sir Robert Paynes. We
know that there was one in Midloe from 1614, but there was
another......in Hampshire, albeit of a slightly later generation, born
1600, so not the father of John of VA. The fact that the Midloe Robert
was not a knight until 1614 is supported by the Visitation of Hunts
1613 where he is described as "Robertus Payne de Midloe com. Hunt.
Miles", not Sir Robertus Payne k, as would have been expected if he
were already a knight.

David

[Janet]

Hi David
You posted

"Regarding the Thoroughgood connection, Anne Constable Lee, wife of Col.
Richard Lee

I, had been under the guardianship of Sir John Thoroughgood. Sir John

Thoroughgood that was guardian of Anne Constable, Col. Richard Lee I's wife.

I found a book that says that Sir Francis Wyatt was the guardian of Anne

Constable, Col. Richard Lee I's wife."

Lee Family of Shropshire, England, 1100 A.D. To 1961 in America. Called The
Lee Family of Virginia. Bettis, Emma Lee. Montgomery, Ala.. (1961) ...
P-14. Sir Francis Wyatt, the first Royal Governor of Virginia; on his second
term, he brought with him, as a member of his household a young lady named
Anne Constable. She and Richard Lee1 may have become inter-ested in each
other during the long voyage to Virginia; certainly they met frequently in
the society at Jamestown. In 1640/41 they were married; presumably in the
new brick church at Jamestown, with the Governor giving the bride away.
He Lost Descendants Of Richard Henry Lee
https://www.leesofvirginia.com/Chapter_Three.html
"Ann Constable was the daughter of Francis Thomas Constable and Alice Owen.
"Ann had been made the ward of Sir John Thoroughgood prior to her departure
from England -
Thoroughgood was a personal attendant of Charles I, King of England - this
wardship was then transferred to the Wyatt's - Sir Francis and his wife (who
was the niece of Sir Edwin Sandys of the London Company) so that Ann
Constable would be in proper company to travel to the new colony of Virginia
by accompanying Sir Wyatt, enabling Ann to begin a new life in Jamestown,
residing with the governor's family.
Ann became the Ward of Sir Francis Wyatt, Governor of the Virginia Colony by
appointment of King Charles to accompany the Wyatt family to America. Her
christening was on 21 Feb 1622, at St. Gregory by St. Paul, London

I just thought you all like to read this
Janet Ariciu of Missouri

[marianne dillow]

Janet,
 
David is in France and won't receive this until tomorrow. But Patrick Payne has given us this in his research:
 
 "Randell MAINWARRING who was the
brother-in-law of Capt. George PAYNE of Virginia. Both Mainwarring and Payne had married sisters of the prominent London merchant brothers, Joseph and Nathaniel Hawes. The Hawes brothers were often partners of both men, as well as with John Payne, commander of the ship John and Dorothy, which had brought Adam Thoroughgood to Virginia in 1634. In Thoroughgood's resulting
land patent found in Cavaliers and Pioneers, vol. 1, pp. 22-23, are foundthe names John Reynolds and John Withers. In 1673, as executor to the will of Thomas Payne of St. Mary's County, Maryland, is found the name John Reynolds. John Withers was named in a court case brought against Joseph Hawes and partners against John Payne, as Payne's servant. Testifying in the case was Col. John Walker, whose daughter Anne married John Payne, Jr.,son of the immigrant subject of the Paynes of Virginia. [PRO, H.C.A.documents which can be browsed on-line at the Library of Virginia under the
name of John Payne. "
 
John Payne, Jr. and wife Anne and Col. John Walker are my grandparent's that hooks up to earlier grandparents of mine that I have posted on : Thacker, Conway, Eltonhead and Suuton plus my Vivion line in Va.
 
Marianne Dillow

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Janet <mon...@getgoin.net> wrote:

[WJho...@aol.com]

The bizarre rendering of Anne's father's name as "Francis Thomas Constable"
should raise a red flag here. I for one, would be instantly suspicious of
anything else this source states, without evidence, just from that one point
alone.

Will Johnson
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)

[Janet]

The John Payne that Marianne Dillow Looking for is John Payne whose wife is
Margaret there are land deed for them.
That might be more then one John Payne in Virginia
Thank you all

Janet Ariciu
-------Original Message-------

From: Chuck Owens
Date: 12/9/2008 7:20:12 PM
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Looking For John Payne, Sr. Lineage In Va. To The English Payne
s

Hi David,

I will try to respond to your inquiries with the information that I

Have on the John Payne of VA -Huntingdonshire connection.

"the whole hypothesis seems to centre around the 1622 will of Robert
Payne, a salter, of London, which attempts to establish a link to John
Payne of Virginia via the Thoroughgoods"

Yes, your statement is essentially correct but there are other

Characters mentioned in the will which seem to have at least a tenuous
If not direct connection to John Payne of VA. The name Florentine

Payne is mentioned in the will. A Florentine Payne in VA was known to

Have had a business association with Col. Richard Lee I who in turn
Was the neighbor of John Payne of Virginia. Regarding the

Thoroughgood connection, Anne Constable Lee, wife of Col. Richard Lee
I, had been under the guardianship of Sir John Thoroughgood. A John
Withers is also mentioned in the will and a Captain John Payne of the

Ship "John and Dorothy" who has been tentatively identified with John

Payne of VA, had a servant named John Withers and also transported

Goods for Adam Thoroughgood and his brother Sir John Thoroughgood, the
Same Sir John Thoroughgood that was guardian of Anne Constable, Col.

Richard Lee I's wife. All of it is just circumstantial evidence and

Speculation but the evidence does seem to point to a connection
Between John Payne of VA and Robert Payne, a salter in London.

"VCH Hunts goes on to state that Sir Robert and his son and heir
Robert (presumably the Robert aged 9 in 1613 shown in the Visitation)

Were dealing with the manor in 1629, citing Lansd. MS. 921, fol. 40;

Feet of F. Hunts. East. 4 Chas. I. There’s a probate on the TNA site

Of Robert Payne of Southoe dated 24 Nov 1632 which may be Sir Robert,
Although it could just as easily be the son born 1604. It would cost

£3-50 to download the will to find out. You would then find out if
it's the will of Sir Robert, whether he names a son John as a

Beneficiary."

I have actually examined Robert Payne's will and he was the son of Sir
Robert Payne of Midloe. He doesn't mention a brother John Payne

Neither does his mother Lady Elizabeth (Rotherham) Payne.

"You say the will of Robert Payne of St Neots/ Wintringham was

Probated in 1654. There’s a will on TNA of Robert Payne of St Neots
Probated on 29 June 1655 –is this the same one? If so how does it
Describe John? “My son John Payne” or “my son John Payne of

Virginia”?"

It just describes him as "my son John Payne. It doesn't mention that
John Payne was in Virginia.

"I can’t see how the will dated 1622 of Robert Payne of London

Connects to the Huntingdonshire Paynes. There’s no mention of Hunts in
It; he leaves £100 to the town of Basingstoke, Hampshire (Hants); and
The brothers and sisters that he names are not mentioned in the Hunts

Visitation. But which Robert would it be? Robert son of Edward died
1654/5, so it’s not him. Robert of St Neots who purchased Midloe died

In 1603; his son Sir Robert and Sir Robert’s son Robert B 1604 were
Both alive in 1629, so it’s none of these three either."

"If Thoroughgood is a real connection to your John, rather than a

Contrived one, then it seems to me as though you should be looking in

Basingstoke, Hants, rather than St Neots Hunts. The IGI, extracted

Entry so reliable, has the baptism of Robert Paine at Basingstoke on 2

Jan 1665, son of Robert & Joane, so there were Robert Paynes living in

That town."

This is a very interesting point that you make. Years ago I did a

Search at IGI and found an extracted record for a Florentine Payne in

Hampshire. So maybe John Payne of VA belongs to to the Hampshire
Payne family. Obviously this avenue needs to be explored in greater

Detail.

"So far I’ve seen nothing but speculation that John Payne of Virginia

Might be a John Payne from St Neots. As Renia pointed out, Paynes were
Two a penny at that time, and it’s going to be difficult to prove
Which one it was that emigrated."

Yes. It's all just circumstantial evidence and speculation. I think

The Hampshire connection may be worth pursuing.

Chuck Owens

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.

[jpay...@gmail.com]

I know this is an older thread but I am now researching the same thing. Has anyone uncovered any new evidence?

thanks in advance.

John B Payne III