Milbourne & Baskerville discrepancies & the Verdon inheritance
Michael Andrews-Reading
Baskerville inheritance brought into a number of [predominantly]
Herefordshire families via the numerous daughters of Simon Milbourne
of Tillington & Icomb who married the heiress of Ralph Baskerville
(born c1410), second son of the Eardisley family.
As usual, the various Visitation records are confused in the extreme.
The thirteen Milbourne daughters, each a co-heiress to their father as
well as their mother were:
(a) Alice, married 1stly to Henry de Newcourt, & 2ndly to Thomas
Baskerville;
(b) Elizabeth, married to Thomas Mornington;
(c) Sybil, married to Richard Hackluyt [Visit. Hereford 1569 pp 36-37
where the Hackluyt arms are said to comprise: 1. Hackluyt 2. Milbourne
3. Eynesford 4. Furnival 5. Verdon 6. Luvetot 7. Baskerville 8.
Blacket;
(d) Anne, married to William Rudhall, sergeant-at-law [Visit. Hereford
1569, p 93 shows quartering of 1. Rudhall 2. Milbourne 3. Eynesford 4.
Furnival 5. Verdon 6. Luvetot 7. Baskerville 8. Blacket; cf. Rudhall
monument described at p 124 of Duncomb's County of Hereford, Vol 3 as
1. Rudhall 2. Milbourne 3. Verdon 4. Furnival 5. "Whittington" 6.
Eynesford 7. Baskerville 8. Luvetot 9. Blacket];
(e) Joyce, married to Thomas Hyett, and had 3 sons and 1 daughter;
(f) Katherine, married to Thomas Barton;
(g) Blanch, married 1stly to James Whitney & 2ndly to Mr. Herbert;
(h) Elinor, married to James More, and had 3 daughters;
(i) Margaret, married to "Thomas Baron" of Burford [Visit. Hereford
1569, pp 90-91] or alternatively, "Richard Bishop" of Burford, Oxon,
o.s.p. (Harl. MS 1545], or more frequently, John Bishop [as per
Visitations of London & of Hants 1686 1. Bishop 2. Milbourne 3.
Eynesford 4. Furnival 5. Verdon 6. Luvetot 7. Baskerville 8. Blacket],
whose descendants were subsequently of Holway, Dorset and South
Warnborough, Hampshire, and included the Revd John Bishop, MA,
allegedly schoolmaster at Taunton, Mass in 1640, whose descendants
could thus apparently trace an ancestry back through the Devereux
family of Weobley and its Verdun antecedents to the 13th century
Princes of North Wales;
(j) Agnes, married to Thomas Walwyn;
(k) Jane, married to Richard Cornwall;
(l) Johanna, o.s.p.
(m) Julianne, o.s.p.
Simon Milbourne (c1435-1522) was the son of John Milbourne
(c1401-1436) by Elizabeth, said to be the daughter of Sir Walter
Devereux killed at Pilleth in 1402, according to transcripts of their
tomb at Burghill, but apparently his granddaughter via his son, also
Walter, who married Maud or Elizabeth Bromwich; John Milbourne in turn
was son of Piers Milbourne of Tillington, who married an heiress of
the Eynesford family; he is said to have had Lincolnshire origins and
to have had connections with the Beauchamp family.
This is where things get more confused. The Visitation of Hereford in
1569 states that Piers Milbourne was the first husband of Elizabeth,
daughter and heiress of the Sir John Eynesford who died 19 Richard II
(c1396); her second husband is said to have been Sir John Baskerville
of Eardisley (c1387-1415) and she is said to have had issue by both
husbands; however, Harl. MS 615 pp 23b-24 state that the mother of Sir
John Baskerville's children was a daughter of "Simon" Bridges, which
seems to be borne out by both the heraldic and manorial evidence - in
fact, Joan, daughter and heiress of John Bridges of Staunden (d.
30.9.1436), whose mother, Jane Pychard, brought the Staunden estate
into the Bridges family. At least two heirs to the Baskerville
patrimony included the Pychard arms as a quartering: the Baskervilles
of Eardisley themselves in the Visitation of 1569, and the Stewards of
Ely, one of whom apparently married a Baskerville heiress at some date
and whose tombs in Ely Cathedral include: 6. Baskerville 7. (?) 8. (?)
9. (?) 10. Bridges 11. Pychard. The Baigent papers at the SOG in
London record a variant: that Sir John Eynesford had two daughters and
co-heirs, the first of whom (Elizabeth) married "John" Milbourne and
the second (Margaret) married Sir John Blacket of Icomb, whose
daughter and heiress Anne married Ralph Baskerville - whose own
heiress was the mother of the 13 Milbourne daughters, thus conveying
the Icomb estates into the Milbourne family. I can find no other
confirmation that Margaret Eynesford even existed. Is any known?
I will forebear to go into further details of the remaining
discrepancies, which touch mainly upon the identity of previous
generations of Eynesfords and their wives, and the issue of whether
they were heirs of the Verdon family, whose arms they clearly
quartered - I believe that this is a long-standing error based on a
conflation of two circumstances.
Any thoughts or expressions of interest welcome!
Michael Andrews-Reading
Michael Andrews-Reading
John Bishop of Massachusetts a descent from the Plantagenet King Henry
II.
Kay Allen AG
man of the same name. I do not think that that has been solidly proven. I
won't mind if some one can do so, it would give me new lineage to work on
:-)
Kay Allen AG
Kay Allen AG
I it shows
this pedigree amongst others, including Bishopp and Baskerville.
Christian dtr of Gerard Furnival married Sir John Eylesford of Burghill,
Hereford who d. 19 Rich, II. Their dtr. Elizabeth married Piers Milborne.
Their son John is not shown a wife. His son was Simon Milborne.
Visitations are very iffy in my opinion unless they are contemporaneous.
I think you are going to have to dig into the Herefordshire Hisories,
including Mansions of- and Castles of-, both by Rev. Robinson for the
alleged Devereux connection. . Most of these are available through the
FHC system
Kay Allen AG
Kay Allen AG
Hasted's Kent, i:409
Dwnn's Visit of WBucks., iv: 258.
Nichol's Hist. Leics. iv:147
Clutterbuck's Hertfordshire, i: 245, 371
Baker's NoHants. i:123
Duncumb's Hist. Hereford., ii:36;, v, pt ii:49; vii, pt. ii: 171
C ooke's Continuation of Duncumb, i:70
The Genealogist, NS, viii:34
Montgomeryshire Coll. xxvii: 192, 372
William Salt Soc., NS xii:184
Somerset Arch Soc., XXXVI, iii: 150
Milbourne:
Jewitt's Reliquary, vii: 26
Notes & Queries, 2S., v: 149, 286; 4S., x:298
This should keep you busy for a while.
Kay Allen AG
Michael Andrews-Reading
> Iwould recommend Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica 2nd series, vol. V,
> I it shows
> this pedigree amongst others, including Bishopp and Baskerville.
>
> Christian dtr of Gerard Furnival married Sir John Eylesford of Burghill,
> Hereford who d. 19 Rich, II. Their dtr. Elizabeth married Piers Milborne.
> Their son John is not shown a wife. His son was Simon Milborne.
>
> Visitations are very iffy in my opinion unless they are contemporaneous.
> I think you are going to have to dig into the Herefordshire Hisories,
> including Mansions of- and Castles of-, both by Rev. Robinson for the
> alleged Devereux connection. . Most of these are available through the
> FHC system
>
> Kay Allen AG
>
Kay
Thanks very much for your welcome input. I suspect that this
pedigree, among other Victorian printed sources, was drawn up on the
work of the Revd Francis
Baigent, which although in theory sound, contains many factual errors.
For instance, primary records (IPMs etc) show that Christian Furnival
was not the mother of Elizabeth Milbourne, but her great-great-great
grandmother; she in fact married Sir William de Eynesford.
Mr Baigent had done his work in the latter part of the 19th century at
the request of one of my great-grandfather's cousins, the Revd Alfred
Caesar Bishop, and a small book, "The Family of Bishop" was published
in 1877. I have spent the past five years working with Norroy &
Ulster King of Arms to untangle the mess that Mr Baigent left [his
papers are split between the College of Arms and the Society of
Genealogists] - I could tell once I started looking into it that his
chronology just wasn't tenable.
Thank you for the valuable list of other sources to be checked. If
only they all agreed with one another!
Regards
Michael
Bagpuss & Co.
I'm tracing the de Solers family of Herefordshire, and was wondering if you
by any chance have any info with regards to the Solers's from Bridge
Sollers, Herefordshire (held by Bridge and Solers families), who married
Richard Baskerville, son of Walter of Eardisley and his wife Susannah
Crigdon, around 1265. Some have recorded Richard's father-in-law as Sir
George de Solers, but I have no solid proof of this. The ancestry I have
for this couple are William, Thomas, John, Thomas, and then Thomas and his
son, Humphrey de Baskerville both of Neen Sollers in Shropshire around the
turn of the 15th century.
Anything relevant you may know about the Solers' link with your
Baskervilles/Bridges would be greatly welcomed. Thanks.
Andrew
"Michael Andrews-Reading" <mj...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d3c078ef.02032...@posting.google.com...
Michael Andrews-Reading
glance through some of my papers and can't find anything immediately
useful. I haven't seen further information on Miss Solers in any of
the Visitations, my main source for the Baskerville line as my focus
has been chiefly on tracing the inheritance of arms via the Milbournes
as a lead in to the Verdons. I haven't even seen a first name
assigned to her, let alone a father. Typical is the entry in Duncomb's
"County of Hereford" where Phillipps's pedigree "from wills,
inquisitions post mortem and parish registers" is printed; this simply
records that Richard Baskerville of Eardisley, High Sheriff of
Hereford in 8 Edward II (1314/5), married "daughter of Solers".
Beacuse of the obvious connection with the Bridges family, into whom
Richard's descendant Sir John married, and a possible Bridges/Solers
marriagein the generation after the Bridges family lost possession of
Bridge Sollers, I would like to dig more deeply given the time!
By the way, do you know what the arms of the Solers family were?
Michael
"Bagpuss & Co." <soo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Z44o8.3446$qD4.21...@news-text.cableinet.net>...
Bagpuss & Co.
church, there is a stone coffin lid with a Solers "knight" engraved on the
top. I'm guessing his shield illustrates the Solers coat of arms. I'll
e-mail you these seperately if interested.
Thanks again
Andrew
"Michael Andrews-Reading" <mj...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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Dolly Ziegler
Soleni, Henry de Solers and Richard Soleys; the latter two are
illustrated.
Henry de Solers - (H. III Roll) bore, paly (10) or and azure a bend
gules; St. George Roll.
Andrew, perhaps this description fits the knight at Hope Sollars church
and this would give you the colors. Email me privately if you want
descriptions of the other two blazons.
Foster's book (1902) has been reprinted and is available in many
libraries. Cheers, Dolly in Maryland
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Bagpuss & Co.
wrote:
Michael Andrews-Reading
Couldn't find much of interest re Solers at a quick glance, except for
the Harleian Society's publication on the Visitations of
Gloucestershire, which records a pedigree from one of the Harleian MS,
showing that the Bridges family of Bridge Sollers quartered the Solers
arms, without giving any details of a marriage with the Solers family.
This tallies with the suggestion in Durncomb's Herefordshire that the
Bridges family inherited Bridge Solers originally from the Solers
family before losing it in the mid 13th century, and not the other way
around. The only other item is another pedigree of the Baskervilles
which refers to Richard B's marriage to the daughter of "Sir -
Solers".
"Bagpuss & Co." <soo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<G0qo8.4730$651.32...@news-text.cableinet.net>...
Bagpuss & Co.
Cheers for that.
Andrew
"Michael Andrews-Reading" <mj...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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Michael Andrews-Reading
Visited Burghill church, where the monument (much defaced) of John
Milbourne and his wife Elizabeth Devereux stills stands in the
chancel; went to Tillington where the Eynesfords were seated -
Tillington Court looks to have been substantially rebuilt in the
Georgian style and most of its grounds have been subdivided and
burdened with bungalows; saw Eardisley church and the site of the
Baskervilles' castle, pulled down by "a mob from Hereford" in 1645
during the Civil Wars; popped into Bridge Sollers church, which is in
dire need of attention: the wall has acquired a rather worrying lean
in favour of the nearby hill-side.
Apart from the concentration of sites connected with the Milbourne
ancestry, that part of the countryside and the nearby Brecon beacons
is well worh the trip. Hay-on-Wye is famous for its second-hand
bookshops and was originally a powerbase of the Braoses.
MAR