Erik the Victorious' wives
Jared Olar
On Fri, 3 May 1996, Ulf H Larsson wrote:
> As I believe that Sigrid "the haughty" is an literary invention
> of Snorre Sturlason, "Swietoslawa" may be the proper name of
> the actual polish princess (Adam gives no name and is not sure if she
> was the sister or daughter of Boleslaw, the commenter points out
> Mieszko I as the father).
One encounters real problems in turning either to Snorri Sturluson or to
Adam of Bremen for genealogical information concerning Scandinavian
royalty. Adam obviously was poorly informed on many matter concerning
Scandinavia, as is shown by the fact that he did not know for certain the
genealogical connections of Erik the Victorious' Wendish wife.
In fact, it's not unlikely that Erik married more than once.
With what we know about Scandinavian kings in this era, we should be
mighty surprised if Erik had not had more than one official wife (not to
mention concubines).
Snorri Sturluson obviously did not invent Sigrid the
Haughty--though earlier sagamen could have. Between the unreliability of
Icelandic sagas and the unreliability of Adam of Bremen, identifying the
mother of Olaf Skotkonung if well nigh impossible. There is no reason
that I can see to say that Sigrid the Haughty was the Icelandic
equivalent of Adam of Bremen's Wendish wife of Erik the Victorious--they
could be confused memories of two separate wives of Erik.
Jared Olar
ol...@eagle.uis.edu
Ulf H Larsson
In article <Pine.HPP.3.91.960506...@eagle.uis.edu>,
ol...@UIS.EDU says...
>
>On Fri, 3 May 1996, Ulf H Larsson wrote:
>
>> As I believe that Sigrid "the haughty" is an literary invention
>> of Snorre Sturlason, "Swietoslawa" may be the proper name of
>> the actual polish princess (Adam gives no name and is not sure if she
>> was the sister or daughter of Boleslaw, the commenter points out
>> Mieszko I as the father).
>
>One encounters real problems in turning either to Snorri Sturluson or to
>Adam of Bremen for genealogical information concerning Scandinavian
>royalty. Adam obviously was poorly informed on many matter concerning
>Scandinavia, as is shown by the fact that he did not know for certain the
>genealogical connections of Erik the Victorious' Wendish wife.
>
is true when he say that he got his information in conversation with
Sven Estridsson, then it was Svens grandma they were talking about
and Adam is just guilty of being sloppy in taking notes. Sven had also
been in the service of Anund-Jacob, the son of Olof "skotkonung", so
we can assume he was well aware of their relationship.
> In fact, it's not unlikely that Erik married more than once.
>With what we know about Scandinavian kings in this era, we should be
>mighty surprised if Erik had not had more than one official wife (not to
>mention concubines).
>
Yes, the above mentioned Sven Estridsson is a good example of that, which
Adam as a man of the church has some problems with although he on the whole
view Sven as good guy!
>
> Snorri Sturluson obviously did not invent Sigrid the
>Haughty--though earlier sagamen could have. Between the unreliability of
>Icelandic sagas and the unreliability of Adam of Bremen, identifying the
>mother of Olaf Skotkonung if well nigh impossible. There is no reason
>that I can see to say that Sigrid the Haughty was the Icelandic
>equivalent of Adam of Bremen's Wendish wife of Erik the Victorious--they
>could be confused memories of two separate wives of Erik.
>
After looking in "Heimskringla" where Sigrid is mentioned in a number of
sagas I still can not see why it is so obvious that Sigrid is not a fictive
person.(She only occurs in Snorris prose, not in any verse.)
Anyhow, Snorris and Adams versions can not both be true, as both claims that
Cnut and Olaf had the same mother, but gives different options.(Both versions
can of cause be false.) I, and there my view are shared by modern swedish
historians believe that Adam is a more reliable source then Snorri,
at least in swedish matters.
To give another example, see M K Lawsons book on Cnut
"Cnut, the danes in England in the early elevteenth century" (1993)
(ISBN 0 582 05969 0 CSD). He has the sister of Boleslaw of Poland
as the wife of Swen "forkbeard" and with a "?" also marked her as
the widow of Eric of Sweden. (I saw in another thred that historians
are not to be trusted in genealogy matters but....)
The reason for my fist posting was to inquire if polish reseach had
brought up some more information on this matter!
Regards
Ulf H. Larsson
Stewart Baldwin
Jared Olar <ol...@UIS.EDU> wrote:
<snip>
> Snorri Sturluson obviously did not invent Sigrid the
>Haughty--though earlier sagamen could have. Between the unreliability of
>Icelandic sagas and the unreliability of Adam of Bremen, identifying the
>mother of Olaf Skotkonung if well nigh impossible. There is no reason
>that I can see to say that Sigrid the Haughty was the Icelandic
>equivalent of Adam of Bremen's Wendish wife of Erik the Victorious--they
>could be confused memories of two separate wives of Erik.
Although I agree that Adam of Bremen is not always reliable, I feel
compelled to come to his defense in this case, as I don't think that
comparing him with the sagas in this way is entirely fair. There are
several reasons why Adam of Bremen should be regarded as a much more
reliable source for early Scandinavian history than the sagas. First,
Adam wrote at an earlier time than the saga authors, and therefore was
closer in time to the relevant events. Second, Adam got some of his
information on early Scandinavian history directly from king Svend II
of Denmark, and there is no indication that any of the saga authors
got their data from an early source of the same caliber for Danish or
Swedish history, and it is Swedish history that is relevant here.
(You could make an excellent case that the saga authors were better
informed than Adam about Norwegian (and Icelandic) history, but Adam
certainly gets the edge with regard to Sweden and Denmark.) Third,
Adam of Bremen's work is a work of history, whereas the sagas contain
a layer of literature superimposed on the historical material which
dilutes their value as a historical source. Finally, if you compare
the statements of both Adam of Bremen and the sagas regarding early
Scandinavian history with that part of the history which can be
verified with good contemporary records, Adam of Bremen, even with his
errors, still comes through this test much better than the sagas do.
Having given my defense of Adam of Bremen, I should acknowledge that
it is based on items of early Scandinavian history which I have
studied which are different from the subject at hand, i.e., the wives
of Erik and mother of Olaf. Since I have never looked at this problem
in any detail, perhaps someone who has done so could outline exactly
what the early primary sources have to say on the matter of Erik's
wife/wives and Olaf's mother. In particular, are there any other
relevant sources on this matter other than Adam and the sagas?
Stewart Baldwin