Ancestry of Baldwin III, Count of Guines

Douglas Richardson

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Jan 1, 2003, 3:29:55 PM1/1/03

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Dear Newsgroup ~

Does anyone have the ancestry of Baldwin III, Count of Guines, handy?
If so, I'd appreciate it if they can post the first four generations
if they have it. Thanks! Baldwin III was living in 1240.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail: royala...@msn.com

Mardi Carter

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Jan 1, 2003, 10:22:32 PM1/1/03

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Here is what is given by ES VII:81

1. Baldwin I, Count of Guines
+ Adele
2. Gisele of Guines
+ Wenemar I, Burgrave of Gent 1088-18; d. aft. 1118
3. Arnold I, Count of Guines; d. 1169
+ Maud de St. Omer, dau. of William II, Chatelain de St.
Omer
4. Baldwin II, Count of Guines; d. 2 Jan 1205
+ Christine d'Ardres, dau. of Arnold IV de Marcq,
Sgr.
d'Ardres, and Adelaide
5. Arnold II, Count of Guines; d. 1220
+ Beatrice de Bourberg, Heiress of the
chatelainey of
Bourberg and Aalst. Dau. of Walter, Chatelain
de Bourberg.
m. bef. MAR 1200; d. 1214
6. Baldwin III, Count de Guines, Chatelain de
Bourbourg,
Sgr. d'Ardres. d. 1244
+ Mahaut de Fiennes 1244, dau. of William de
Fiennes and
Agnes de Dammartin

ES lists numerous children for each generation which I have not
included here due to time constraints. I can provide them later if
you are interested.

Mardi

fa10...@skynet.be

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Jan 2, 2003, 3:51:12 AM1/2/03

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Dear Douglas, here's what I have.
Happy New Year .

1.Baudouin III de GUINES (+1244)
X
Mahaut de FIENNES

Parents:
2.Arnould II de GUINES (+1220) X (bef March 1200)
3.Béatrix de BOURBOURG-ALOST

Grand Parents:
4.Baudouin II de GUINES (+ 2 JAN 1205)
X
5.Christine de MARCQ ( + 2 JUL 1177)

4th generation
8.Arnould I de GAND (+1169)
X
9. Mahaut de St OMER

Patrick,Herstal,Charlemagne Country,Belgium

"Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote in message
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Douglas Richardson

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Jan 2, 2003, 4:13:02 AM1/2/03

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Dear Mardi ~

Thank you for sharing this information with us. The reason why I
asked for Baldwin III's ancestry is because I noticed that Stephen
Longespee, son of William Longespee, Earl of Salisbury, and his wife,
Countess Ela, witnessed a charter in 1240 for Baldwin III, Count of
Guines. I suspect that Stephen Longespee and Count Baldwin III are
related to each other. The question is how? My first guess would be
through Stephen Longespee's mother, Countess Ela, whose mother was a
member of the comital family of Ponthieu. However, I don't spot any
immediate connection between between Countess Ela and Count Baldwin
III in the information that you have posted. Does anyone have any
ideas how these families might be related to one another? Stephen
Longespee's great-grandmother was Ida of Hainault. Possibly a Guines
connection comes through that part of Stephen's ancestry.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail: royala...@msn.com

mard...@yahoo.com (Mardi Carter) wrote in message news:<ac1a87e4.03010...@posting.google.com>...

Ed Mann

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Jan 2, 2003, 7:41:00 PM1/2/03

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Do Baldwin III's children include Arnold III de Guines?

>
> Mardi
>
>

Gerard Poissonnier

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Jan 2, 2003, 8:48:34 PM1/2/03

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Yes. According to Andre Du Chesne, "Histoire Genealogique des Maisons
de Guines, d'Ardres, de Gand, et de Coucy" Sebastien Cramoisy, Paris,
1631, Pages 169 through 171.

Children of Baldwin III, Count of Guines and Mahaut de Fienes were:

1. Arnoul III, Count of Guines

2. Baldwin de Guines, Seigneur de Sangate

3. Adelvie de Guines

4. Ide de Guines

--Gerard

fa10...@skynet.be

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Jan 3, 2003, 3:17:55 AM1/3/03

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"Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5cf47a19.03010...@posting.google.com...

> Dear Mardi ~
>
> Thank you for sharing this information with us. The reason why I
> asked for Baldwin III's ancestry is because I noticed that Stephen
> Longespee, son of William Longespee, Earl of Salisbury, and his wife,
> Countess Ela, witnessed a charter in 1240 for Baldwin III, Count of
> Guines. I suspect that Stephen Longespee and Count Baldwin III are
> related to each other. The question is how?

The County of Guines had close ties with Flanders,Vermandois,Boulogne etc..I
think Stephen Longespee 's second wife (Liégard de Vermandois) is the
connection.
Liégard de Vermandois (918-978), daughter of Ct Herbert II and sister of
Adčle (908-960).
Adčle de Vermandois was married to the Count of Flanders (Arnulf the
Elder).They had a daughter:
Elftrude X Siegfried de GUINES , 1st Count of Guines(d.965)
Adolphe de Guines (d.996) X Mahaut de Boulogne
Raoul de Guines , 3rd count d.1036 X Roselle de St Pol s/Mer
Eustache de Guines , 4th count d.1052 X Susanne de Grammene
Baudouin I de Guines ,5th Count X Adčle Christine de West Frise

Hope this helps,
Patrick.