Lady Godiva dissected
Leo van de Pas
Well, here we go :
All Europe's crowned heads are descendants and so is Lady Diana Spencer and Sarah Ferguson
Gen-Med
Rosie Bevan
Richard Borthwick
John Steele Gordon
Peter de Loriol
Tim Powys-Lybbe
John Ravilious
Donald Lines Jacobus
Gary Boyd Roberts
Presidents of the USA
George Washington 1st President
Thomas Jefferson 3rd President
James Monroe 5th President
John Quincy Adams 6th President
William Henry Harrison 9th President
Ulysses S Grant 18th President
Rutherford Birchard Hayes 19th President
Stephen Grover Cleveland 22nd & 24th President
Benjamin Harrison 23rd President
Theodore Roosevelt 26th President
John Calvin Coolidge 30th President
Franklin Delano Roosevelt 32nd President
Gerald Ford 38th President
George H Bush 41st President
George W Bush 43rd President
Other Interesting ones
Wernher von Braun
Brooke Shields
Katherine Hepburn
Humphrey Bogart
Montgomery Clift
Walt Disney
John Forbes Kerry (Presidential candidate ?)
Audrey Hepburn
Rachel Ward
Gateway ancestors
Robert Abel III 1605-1663
Samuel Appleton 1586-1670
Essex Beville 1639-1682
Elizabeth Bosvile 1617-
Obadiah Bruen 1606-1690
Edward Carleton 1610-
Capt. Francis Champernoun -1687
Grace Chetwode 1602-1669
Capt. Jeremiah Clarke 1605-1651
Katherine Deighton 1614-1671
John Drake 1585-1659
Anne Dudley 1612-1672
Edward Dudley -1655
Rev. Samuel Dudley 1608-1682
William Farrar 1583-1637
John Fenwick 1618-1683
Muriel Gurdon
Afra Harleston 1615-1699
Elizabeth Harleston -1720
John Harleston -1738
Thomas Holford
Anne Humphrey 1625-
John Irvine 1742-1808
Joseph Kirkbride 1662-1737
Mary Launce 1625-1710
Samuel Levis 1649-1734
Judith Lewis 1626-
Mary Lewis 1619-
Nathaniel Littleton 1605-1654
Robert Livingston, the elder 1654-1728
Anne Lovelace 1611-1652
Gabriel Ludlow 1663-1736
Roger Ludlow 1590-1666
Philip Mallory 1618-1661
Anne Marbury 1591-1643
Catherine Marbury 1610-1687
Andrew Monroe -1668
Richard More 1614-1694
James Morgan 1607-1685
James Murray 1713-1781 (to Canada)
Elizabeth Palgrave
Mary Palgrave
Dr. Richard Palgrave 1585-1651
Herbert Pelham 1600-1673
William Randolph 1650-1711
Major Richard Saltonstall 1610-1671
Major Nicholas Sewall 1655-1737
Grace Skipwith
Maria Joanna Somerset 1670-1698
Elizabeth St.John 1604-1676
Col. John Washington 1634-1677
Olive Welby 1604-1691
Rev. Hawte Wyatt 1596-1638
Hope this is of interest.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Cristopher Nash
>Sam Sloan remarked to me that Lady Godiva also is an ancestor of
>Thomas Jefferson, and this made me sit up and wonder who else is
>descended from her?
Many could be interested to know that a number of people living today
bearing the name Hemmings might thus be included.
Cris
--
Doug McDonald
Leo van de Pas wrote:
>
> Sam Sloan remarked to me that Lady Godiva also is an ancestor of Thomas Jefferson, and this made me sit up and wonder who else is descended from her?
>
>
>
> Gateway ancestors
> Robert Abel III 1605-1663
>
...
> Rev. Hawte Wyatt 1596-1638
>
>
There are others, including the Rev. Robert Rose and the Ironmongers.
Doug McDonald
JKent...@aol.com
leov...@bigpond.com writes:
> Rev. Hawte Wyatt 1596-1638
>
>
What is the ancestral relationship of Rev. Hawte Wyatt to Lady Godiva?
Jno
Leo van de Pas
Leo
D. Spencer Hines
Leo, are you saying that anyone descended from Gilbert de Lacy, who reportedly
died in 1230, and his wife Isabel Bigod ---- are descendants of Lady Godiva?
If so, that's a whole gaggle of us. <g>
Deus Vult
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia,
Legem Destruit Moralem.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in
your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of Hamlet,
Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
Doug McDonald
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote:
>
> Subject line changed. We would not want to "dissect" a beautiful woman.
>
> Leo, are you saying that anyone descended from Gilbert de Lacy, who reportedly
> died in 1230, and his wife Isabel Bigod ---- are descendants of Lady Godiva?
>
> If so, that's a whole gaggle of us. <g>
>
yes, but the critical generation is earlier, Bertha of Hereford, m.
William de Braose
For example, the line to Robert II of Scotland branches off there, as
do many, many lines that royally speaking get only Henry I (who was not
a Godiva descendent).
Yes, a gaggle. A recent student of mine mentioned that he was a
descendent of George Washington. He had no idea that he was therefore
a descendent of a vast array of Kings and Queens, but he was
particularly amused by Lady Godiva.
Here's a (stolen) descendent tree. Lots of well-discussed (in s.g.m)
people
appear in this table.
Descendants of Bertha of Hereford
1 Bertha of Hereford 1130 -
+William de Braose Lord of Abergavenny - 1179
2 Bertha de Braose
+Walter de Beauchamp - 1216
3 Walcheline (Walter) de Beauchamp - 1236
+Joan de Mortimer - 1225
4 William de Beauchamp Lord of Elmsley 1215 -
1267/68
+Isabel Mauduit 1227 - 1268
2 William de Braose Lord of Abergavenny - 1211
+Maud de St Valerie
3 Reynold de Braose Lord of Abergavenny - 1227
+Grecia Briegeurre
4 William de Braose Lord of Abergavenny 1197 -
1230
+Eva Marshal - 1246
*2nd Wife of Reynold de Braose Lord of Abergavenny:
+Glwadys Dhu (of Wales) 1194 - 1251
3 Margaret de Braose - 1255
+Walter de Lacy Lord of Meath - 1239/40
4 Egidia (Jill) de Lacy - 1243
+Richard de Burgh Lord of Connaught - 1242/43
4 Katherine de Lacy
4 Pernel de Lacy - 1288
+Ralph VI de Toni 1190 - 1239
4 Gilbert de Lacy 1208 - 1230
+Isobel Bigod 1210 -
3 Giles de Braose Bishop of Hereford - 1215
3 Eleanor de Braose - 1240/41
+Hugh de Mortimer - 1227
3 Maud (or Susan) de Braose
3 William de Braose - 1210
+Matilda de St Clare
4 John de Braose Lord of Bramber & Gower 1198 -
1232
+Margaret ferch Llewelyn ap Iowerth
3 Laurette de Braiose - 1265/66
+Robert de Bellomont Earl of Leicester - 1204
2 Sibilla de Braose - 1227/28
+William de Ferrers Earl of Derby - 1190
3 Pernell de Ferrers
+Hervey de Stafford - 1237
4 Robert de Stafford Lord of Stafford - 1261
+Alice Corbet - 1261
4 Hervey de Stafford - 1241
+Mabel de Muscegros
3 William de Ferrers Earl of Derby 1170 - 1247
+Agnes de Kivelioc - 1247
4 William de Ferrers Earl of Derby 1193 - 1253/54
+Sibilla Marshal
*2nd Wife of William de Ferrers Earl of Derby:
+Margaret de Quency - 1280/81
Doug McDonald
D. Spencer Hines
descendants. So, your student is either a liar or sadly mistaken.
I'd suggest you tell him to check his work again.
2. To follow....
Deus Vult
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia,
Legem Destruit Moralem.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in
your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of Hamlet,
Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"Doug McDonald" <mcdo...@scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:3DFFEC9E...@scs.uiuc.edu...
D. Spencer Hines
"Subject line changed. We would not want to "dissect" a beautiful woman.
Leo, are you saying that anyone descended from Gilbert de Lacy, who reportedly
died in 1230, and his wife Isabel Bigod ---- are descendants of Lady Godiva?
If so, that's a whole gaggle of us. <g>"
D. Spencer Hines
--------------------------
"yes, [sic] but the critical generation is earlier, Bertha of Hereford, m.
William de Braose."
J. Douglas McDonald
-------------------------
I never said any particular generation was the "critical" one.
In this post, I wanted to focus on Gilbert de Lacy and Isabel Bigod.
Some sources have Walter de Lacy and Margaret de Braiose as the PARENTS of
Gilbert ---- not with Walter de Lacy, who married Margaret de Braiose, as the
BROTHER of Gilbert. I wanted to clarify that with Leo.
Pace....
Leo van de Pas
Only about two years did I start adding links to gateway ancestors into my
system.
However, I did check and I do have Col. Thomas Ligon, of Virginia, husband
of Mary Harris,
in my system. I did not have him 'flagged" as a gateway ancestor, he is now.
I have made his line to Lady Godiva and I will send it to you.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara Kelly" <bee...@jps.net>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2094 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Lady Godiva dissected
> I have her as ancestor to Thomas Ligon et al. Am I wrong?
>
> Barbara Kelly
> Moraga, Ca.
> ----------
> > From: Leo van de Pas <leov...@bigpond.com>
> > To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
> > Subject: Lady Godiva dissected
> > Date: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:18 AM
> >
> > Sam Sloan remarked to me that Lady Godiva also is an ancestor of Thomas
> Jefferson, and this made me sit up and wonder who else is descended from
> her?
> >
> > Gateway ancestors
> > Robert Abel III 1605-1663
Leo van de Pas
Do I read you correctly? You have a student who is a descendant of George
Washington?
What does he/she know that nobodyy else does? Surely it is a relation not a
descendant?
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug McDonald" <mcdo...@scs.uiuc.edu>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Doug McDonald
Leo van de Pas wrote:
>
> Dear Doug,
>
> Do I read you correctly? You have a student who is a descendant of George
> Washington?
> What does he/she know that nobodyy else does? Surely it is a relation not a
> descendant?
I have a student who CLAIMED to be such a descendent. Let's see if
I can find his name .... here it is ... HEMMINGS ..... (just kidding of
course).
I merely reported on the ancestors of George.
Doug McDonald
Sam Sloan
>1. General/President George Washington does not have any legitimate
>descendants. So, your student is either a liar or sadly mistaken.
>
>I'd suggest you tell him to check his work again.
You are correct, unless his student was Black and claims that Washington
had relations with his slaves.
Sam sloan
>Deus Vult
>
>"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
>nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
>
>Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia,
>Legem Destruit Moralem.
>
>"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in
>your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of Hamlet,
>Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
>
>All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original
material
>contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
>only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
>unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
>------------------
>
>D. Spencer Hines
>
>Lux et Veritas et Libertas
>
>Vires et Honor.
>
>"Doug McDonald" <mcdo...@scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
>news:3DFFEC9E...@scs.uiuc.edu...
>|
>|
D. Spencer Hines
The HEMINGS, yes -- that's the correct spelling, have nothing to do with
George Washington.
Wrong President, Doug....
Two African-American sisters claim to be descendants of George Washington,
from his alleged relationship with a slave named Venus and then through their
alleged son, West Ford. Here's some more on that:
http://www.westfordlegacy.com/History/chronology.html
No, I'm not either confirming or denying all this ---- I'm REPORTING it.
Deus Vult
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia,
Legem Destruit Moralem.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in
your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of Hamlet,
Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"Doug McDonald" <mcdo...@scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:3E000DB2...@scs.uiuc.edu...
| Leo van de Pas wrote:
| >
| > Dear Doug,
| >
| > Do I read you correctly? You have a student who is a descendant of George
| > Washington?
| > What does he/she know that nobody else does? Surely it is a relation not
| > a descendant?
|
| I have a student who CLAIMED to be such a descendent. Let's see if
| I can find his name .... here it is ... HEMMINGS ..... (just kidding of
| course).
| I merely reported on the ancestors of George.
|
Doug McDonald ---- Chemist
Sam Sloan
>
>
>Leo van de Pas wrote:
>>
>>
>> Do I read you correctly? You have a student who is a descendant of George
>> Washington?
>> What does he/she know that nobodyy else does? Surely it is a relation
not a
>> descendant?
>
>
>I can find his name .... here it is ... HEMMINGS ..... (just kidding of
>course).
>I merely reported on the ancestors of George.
>
>Doug McDonald
George Washington had no known children and is believed to have been
sterile, especially since his wife Martha had children by a previous marriage.
Sam Sloan
AGeorgeSand
Those of us who would like to credit the author (if only to protect ourselves from blame for his errors) wish you would cite sources...
and ps; a lot of people descend from George Washington, including many on the list; an old Northumberland family... the most common link for many is thru Crinan & Bethoc of Atholl...
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Doug McDonald <mcdo...@scs.uiuc.edu>
À : GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Date : mercredi 18 décembre 2002 05:31
Objet : Re: Lady Godiva Admired
Sam Sloan
>you forgot to mention whom you stole it from...
>Those of us who would like to credit the author (if only to protect
ourselves from blame for his errors) wish you would cite sources...
If you are asking who I stole it from, I stole it from myself.
In my book, "The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson" page 187-188, which
was first published in 1992, I state that Thomas Jefferson was a direct
descendant of Lady Godiva.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/4906574009/slavesofthomasje
I got this from an article in the Virginia Historical Quarterly which, as I
recall, was published in the 1920s or 1930s.
If not there, it was from an article in Genealogies of Virginia Families,
Volume 5.
I no longer have imediate access to these publications, but anybody can go
to the library and look it up.
Of course, I need to thank Leo for sending me the information to enable me
to establish the exact links (there are many). This was just in my memory
bank of curious facts so I decided to look it up two days ago.
Sam Sloan
Doug McDonald
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote:
>
> These chemists sure are flakey, *wherever* you find them. <g>
>
> The HEMINGS, yes -- that's the correct spelling, have nothing to do with
> George Washington.
>
> Wrong President, Doug....
>
No No . D.S.H. .... he was from a FEMALE descendent of George.
You COMPLETELY missed the point. So Sorry!
His male descent was from ..... Thomas Jefferson. He descended
from TWO presidents.
Still kidding, of course.
Doug McDonald
D. Spencer Hines
Shades of Pons and Fleischman with their "Cold Fusion."
George Washington had no legitimate children, male or female, of his own
body ---- period.
Read, Mark, Learn and Inwardly Digest.
Deus Vult
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia,
Legem Destruit Moralem.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in
your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of Hamlet,
Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"Doug McDonald" <mcdo...@scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:3E009DB5...@scs.uiuc.edu...
Sam Sloan
You should not be kidding about this on a list where remarks are
intended to be serious.
You should make it clear that no such person exists. I repeat: NO SUCH
PERSON EXISTS.
Sam Sloan
malinda
any Jefferson males to any slave children ??
~malinda
GRHa...@aol.com
leov...@bigpond.com writes:
> Dear Doug,
>
> Do I read you correctly? You have a student who is a descendant of George
> Washington?
> What does he/she know that nobodyy else does? Surely it is a relation not
> a
> descendant?
> Leo
>
Don't be too sure. Remember, old George had slaves too. Perhaps he had a
high yellar as beautiful as Sally Hemmings. Just joking, but it is possible.
Gordon
Sam Sloan
>So...you wrote your book before there was any DNA "evidence" to connect
>any Jefferson males to any slave children ??
>
>~malinda
Yes. That is correct. The evidence that Thomas Jefferson was the father to
Sally Hemings children was overwhelming long before the DNA tests.
Self-proclaimed "defenders" of Thomas Jefferson wanted the DNA tests done
thinking that they would prove that he was not the father. They were wrong.
My book was first published in 1992. In 1998, it was reprinted without any
changes by a different publisher. In happened by coincidence that only a
few weeks after my book was reprinted that the test results came out
showing that Thomas Jefferson could not be excluded as the father. This
merely added to the already strong evidence that he was the father.
Sam Sloan
JKent...@aol.com
Who are the children and grandchildren of Godiva that make all these
wonderful connections to Margaret de Braose and Hymphrey de Bohan?
Jno
Sam Sloan
This is an interesting question because, as best I can determine, Lady
Godiva only had two children:
Alfgar III Earl Of MERCIA, born in about 1002, and Hereward Of MERCIA, born
in about 1004.
Of these, Hereward Of MERCIA had no children, but Alfgar III Earl Of MERCIA
had six. All of these kings, princes and presidents are descended from the
fourth child, who became Ealdgyth Queen Of ENGLAND.
Ealdgyth married twice. Her first marriage was to Gruffydd Ap LLEWELYN, the
ruler of Wales. In 1063, Gruffydd Ap LLEWELYN was killed by King Harold II,
so Ealdgyth married the man who killed her husband. I find this to be a
bit strange, that a woman would marry a man who had kiled her husband, but
this is what she did. Her children by the marriage to Gruffydd Ap LLEWELYN
are the ancestors of all of these famous people.
Sam Sloan
Leo van de Pas
contains the correction needed after Spencer Hines checked out one point.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: <JKent...@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: Lady Godiva dissected
D. Spencer Hines
Could you please send me a copy of the file as well?
Thank you.
Oh, the story those people of Coventry could tell!
And the horse, a stallion of course was very happy too. I understand he was a
favourite with all the mares for the rest of his long life. Both men and
women loved to stroke the spot on his back where Lady Godiva had ridden ----
and paid for the chance to do so.
Yes, Great-Grandfather Ralph 'The Staller' told us that story too.
And there is this:
http://www.abacom.com/~jkrause/godiva.html
So, that's why we have lots of nudity in many of the most popular movies
today. It's all there to further ART and a political-economic agenda.
"Man Can Not Live By Waterworks Alone."
Deus Vult
<Groak!>
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia,
Legem Destruit Moralem.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in
your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of Hamlet,
Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
""Leo van de Pas"" <leov...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:00a901c2a73a$5a265ac0$98dafea9@old...
D. Spencer Hines
I mean, how bad is that?
How could any red-blooded male object to that....
Mediaeval Genealogy Is Fun....
And Roy Stockdill can just go suck on sour lemons.
Deus Vult
malinda
You are being slanderous and irresponsible which I find highly offensive.
I would like to politely request that you desist from making such
accusations
unless you can back them up with proof of misbehavior.
Otherwise, kindly refrain from besmirching a great man who risked
everything to provide you with the freedom of speech you are now so
cavalierly abusing at his expense.
Washington's broad shoulders can withstand your smut balls, but why
should they have to ?
I would respectfully suggest that you...and any other people who enjoy
taking potshots at those who provided you with the democracy which
is now so imperiled...refrain from legally actionable offenses toward the
Founding Fathers in general and George Washingnton in particular.
~malinda jones
Member National Association of Washington Family Descendants
----- Original Message -----
From: <GRHa...@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: Lady Godiva Admired
D. Spencer Hines
know that.
However, might I suggest you check out the law on this?
Dead people can't file libel and slander suits ---- particularly historical
figures.
Deus Vult
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia,
Legem Destruit Moralem.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in
your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of Hamlet,
Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
""malinda"" <mthi...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:21c401c2a6e5$f7b8a4f0$5916bcd0@computer...
malinda
the DNA tests only showed that some Jefferson male or males shared the same
DNA with some of the children. There were much more likely candidates for
paternity among the Jefferson males than Thomas Jefferson...but he's the
only
one whose name would sell newspapers...or cheesy books.
If you had done any research at all you'd be aware of that. Or were you
hired to
write a piece of revisionistic, yellow journalism to forward some political
agenda ?
~malinda
GRHa...@aol.com
mthi...@swbell.net writes:
> You are being slanderous and irresponsible which I find highly offensive.
> I would like to politely request that you desist from making such
> accusations
> unless you can back them up with proof of misbehavior.
>
Madam, I made NO accusations. I said perhaps. I have every right in the
world to bring up possibilities. You may be a descendant but your ancestor
was a man, not a deity, or saint. He had desires and pains and wants just
like everyone else in his time. If he had a tryst with a person of African
origins it is no slur on him, or on his greatness, it was something that
happened everyday in those days. If you think that detracts from him in
anyway, then you are a poor representative of your ancestor.
Gordon
Chovhani
--
Melanie
Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness
(Grey County, Ontario, Canada) - http://www.raogk.org/
List Admin: WAK...@rootsweb.com
"D. Spencer Hines" <D._Spenc...@usa.yale.edu> wrote in message
news:Kr6M9.649$QI.2...@eagle.america.net...
William Addams Reitwiesner
See Walter Lee Sheppard, "Are you a descendant of Lady Godiva", *National
Genealogical Society Quarterly*, vol. 50, no. 2 [June 1962], pp. 74-78, for
details on the following:
1. Godgifu (Godiva) d. mid 1080s m. Leofric Earl of Mercia, d. 1057. Their
son:
2. AElfgar Earl of Mercia m. AElfgifu. They had three sons and a daughter:
3. Aldgyth m1. Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, King of the Welsh, d. 1063. Their
daughter:
4. Nest m. 1081 Osbern fitz Richard, of Richard's Castle. Their son Hugh
was ancestor of the Says, later Mortimers, later Talbots, of Richards
Castle [CP IX:256-266, etc]. Nest and Osbern had a daughter:
5. Nest m. Bernard de Neufmarche. Their daughter:
6. Sibyl m. Miles fitz Richard, Constable of Gloucester, Earl of Hereford,
d. 1143. Their daughter:
7. Bertha m. William de Braose.
From there the lines are easy to trace.
William Addams Reitwiesner
wr...@erols.com
Sam Sloan
>Wrong....
>
>the DNA tests only showed that some Jefferson male or males shared the same
>DNA with some of the children. There were much more likely candidates for
>paternity among the Jefferson males than Thomas Jefferson...but he's the
>only one whose name would sell newspapers...or cheesy books.
>
>If you had done any research at all you'd be aware of that. Or were you
>hired to
>write a piece of revisionistic, yellow journalism to forward some political
>agenda ?
>
>~malinda
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Thomas Jefferson lived with Sally Hemings for 37 years, from 1789 until his
death in 1826.
She was at his death bed when he died.
She was provided for in his will.
No other man had that sort of contact with her.
You cannot name even one possible candidate father, much less many.
Sam Sloan
David Paul Meyer
AR7 177:4, 193:4, and 237:4 give the marriage of Sybil de Neufmarche to Miles fitz Walter, Constable of Gloucester, Earl of Hereford, d. 1143; the son of Walter fitz Roger.
You called him Miles fitz Richard... do I need to upgrade my records?
Thank you!
Yours truly,
David
malinda
Sly innuendo is right on the slippery edge of accusation if you insist on
giving yourself wiggle room.
And I will thank you to refrain from super-imposing your own predilections
on George Washington ...or on me. You do NOT have the right to idly
slanderize him or anyone else, including me.
Your crude attempts at insults speak poorly for your own character .
Your other comments speak poorly for even a passing nod to veracity.
~malinda jones
proud descendant of Thorfinn Skullspliltter
malinda
George Washington's image is just as subject to legal protection as that of
any other deceased celebrity, as is their estate.
Plus...Mr. Hale is well on his way to helping my lawsuit along by slandering
me as well. May the fleas of a thousand camels inhabit his pants and vest.
~malinda
malinda
with her and tended to hang out around the slave quarters whenever he came
to
visit ?
There are surviving letters of Thomas Jefferson where he complains of not
being
able to sleep because of the sounds of loud music and dancing from the slave
quarters at these times.
His visits are documented and coincided with conception times for the
children
who rtested positive for Jefferson DNA
Sam Sloan
>I'm not dead.....and neither are the other members of NSWFD.
>
>George Washington's image is just as subject to legal protection as that of
>any other deceased celebrity, as is their estate.
>
>Plus...Mr. Hale is well on his way to helping my lawsuit along by slandering
>me as well. May the fleas of a thousand camels inhabit his pants and vest.
>
>~malinda
Sorry. You obviously know very little about the law.
Also, are you claiming that the women who claim to be descended from George
Washington can be sued for saying that?
Also, you are obviously not a descendant of George Washington, since he did
not have any, so where is your standing to sue?
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
>How about Thomas Jefferson's nephew who had an on again, off again affair
>with her and tended to hang out around the slave quarters whenever he came
>to visit ?
>
>There are surviving letters of Thomas Jefferson where he complains of not
>being
>able to sleep because of the sounds of loud music and dancing from the slave
>quarters at these times.
>
>His visits are documented and coincided with conception times for the
Why don't you provide the name of this nephew?
HINT: There is no such person.
You really have not the slightest notion what you are talking about.
Sam Sloan
malinda
There is treatment for that syndrome these days.
There is a legal specialty devoted to the Estates and images of deceased
persons...mostly celebrities. Think in terms of the legal image control/
protection associated with Marilyn Monroe,who had no descendants,
and Elvis Presley who did.
You need to keep up with the program...I never claimed to be a descendant
of George Washington (who had none). I am his 2nd cousin. I descend from
his grandfather's sister, Anne Washington who married Major Francis Wright.
Our common ancestor is Col John Washington, great grandfather to George
Washington and father of my Anne Washington.
The National Society of Washington Family Descendants could easily take
action on behalf of our esteemed family member. In fact, I think I'll
suggest
that a portion of the membership dues be set aside for just such a
contingency.
~m
malinda
I'm sure their historian would be happy to provide you with any information
you
wish. I'm not going to do all the work you should have done in the first
place.
~m
Sam Sloan
>Why don't you contact the Monticello Association ?
>
>I'm sure their historian would be happy to provide you with any information
>you
>wish. I'm not going to do all the work you should have done in the first
>place.
>
>~m
I will have you know that I grew up in Lynchburg, Virginia where Thomas
Jefferson's second home was located. I took classes at the University of
Virginia and I am very familiar with the place. I have spent years studying
the life of Thomas Jefferson and know everything about him. Only one man
knows more than I do and he is with Princeton University.
The person you claim had relations with Sally did not exist. There is no
such person. Your story is somebody's pure invention and fabrication.
Sam Sloan
http://www.samsloan.com/slaves.htm
Ed Mann
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug McDonald" <mcdo...@scs.uiuc.edu>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Lady Godiva Admired
> Yes, a gaggle. A recent student of mine mentioned that he was a
> descendent of George Washington. He had no idea that he was therefore
> a descendent of a vast array of Kings and Queens, but he was
> particularly amused by Lady Godiva.
AFAIK, George Washington has no known descendants.
malinda
GRHa...@aol.com
Malinda Jones, but I changed my mind. She has seen fit to bring up this
piddling little complaint on the list, so I now think that I must respond on
the list. I am sorry to take this space and time away from the members who
are primarily interested in Medieval genealogy, but I think it is necessary.
The fact that she has had the mamba of the list come out in her favor had
something to do with my decision also.
In a message dated 12/18/2002 10:05:05 PM Central Standard Time,
mthi...@swbell.net writes:
> Enough.
>
> You are being slanderous and irresponsible which I find highly offensive.
> I would like to politely request that you desist from making such
> accusations
> unless you can back them up with proof of misbehavior.
>
> Otherwise, kindly refrain from besmirching a great man who risked
> everything to provide you with the freedom of speech you are now so
> cavalierly abusing at his expense.
>
> Washington's broad shoulders can withstand your smut balls, but why
> should they have to ?
>
> I would respectfully suggest that you...and any other people who enjoy
> taking potshots at those who provided you with the democracy which
> is now so imperiled...refrain from legally actionable offenses toward the
> Founding Fathers in general and George Washington in particular.
>
> ~malinda jones
> Member National Association of Washington Family Descendants
>
>
>
>
Ms. Jones,
I am possibly as good, if not a better, patriotic American, then you are. I
have served my country in it's military service in time of war. I have
supported many patriotic and political operations. I have never failed to
pay my calculated taxes, nor report for jury duty when summoned. I have
missed very few votes since my first vote in 1948. In other words I have
been a good citizen of my nation.
I have great respect for George Washington, as a leader, and as a man. I
also have the belief that no man can be perfect, and this includes George
Washington. I have no proof or even a good suspicion that he had relations
with anyone other than his own spouse, but I would not be surprised nor
dismayed if I found out he had. This is something called human nature, and
it seems that the more powerful you become the easier you can succumb to the
physical sins. Our most recent president, Bill Clinton, is a perfect example
of that statement. Even Jimmy Carter, who I think was the most moral
president in my lifetime admitted to "lusting in his heart." If you expect
perfection in man you live in a dream world, and I suggest that you try to
look around and learn something about your own species.
I have made no accusations against George Washington, or any other historical
personality. I have merely mentioned that such and such was possible. You
ask me to prove that such had occurred. The best, and most easy, response to
that request is to advise you to prove that it didn't. I won't do that
because I know that would be impossible for you to do. It would also be
impossible for me to prove a sexual interlude in which George Washington took
part at this late date in history. If it had been known of at the time there
would surely have been some of his enemies, and he had American enemies, to
bring it to the public's attention.
We do know about Benjamin Franklin's affairs and it has not injured his fame.
You have over reacted to a mere bon mot, as it were, which I threw in to
lighten the scene.
If you feel that you have grounds for a lawsuit, please go ahead, but do not
threaten me with such, unless you intend to follow through. Such threats
are, in themselves, grounds for suit. I have lived too long to stand still
to threats.
Gordon Hale
Member of the citizenry of the United States of America, and Texas
P.S.: I hope you can recover from this terrible blow to your psyche that I
have unintenetionally given. I assure you it was unintentional.
malinda
Anne Gilbert
"Chovhani" <chov...@india.com> wrote in message
news:Wk7M9.4914$pS6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> And I suppose she was Hereward the Wake's mother too, hmm?
Well, if you believe some of the "geneologies" that have been provided for
him, yes she was. . . .(and no, I'm not going to get into an argument about
this. My only interest is in research relating to this period and its
people).
Anne Gilbert
AGeorgeSand
Malinda is a descendant of a common ancestor of George Washington, like all those who are proud to find him in their collateral tree somewhere... I think it would be best for both of you nice people to calm down... As to Jefferson & Sally, It would be racist to think there were something more terrible about taking advantage of a slave under one's protection, than to take advantage of another poor or subordinate woman under one's care... & it would arguably be no flower in any great man's cap, but then, they are human & all had/have foibles... (infidelity has never been a female exclusivity) the question is, do we choose to make that the important thing about a great one's life, or do we pay more attention to their ideals & effective political actions...
I think it's no insult to notice that Sam Sloan's interest in the "sexual freedom league aspect" of the question is quite within character for Sam, but that doesnt mean it's the most important thing about Jefferson, & his dalliance or not with Sally Hemmings is certainly no better or worse than say, the far more documentable (& for many, lamentable) dalliance of Lord Sutton with say, Elizabeth Tomlinson... the result of which, for many, was the ending of the noble line with a few clerks & tollbooth keepers...
Jefferson managed, as did for instance, Clinton, to leave the country in better shape than he got it, which is the duty of any noble soul to whom is confided a great heritage, in custodianship...
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Sam Sloan <sl...@ishipress.com>
À : GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Date : jeudi 19 décembre 2002 02:56
Objet : Re: Lady Godiva Admired
AGeorgeSand
would seem a foolish gesture, as we have seen that any visible
alliances immediately become the target of subtle & not so subtle
manouevres of dissociation... I only know that lately, she has been
hanging out with Leo... is that why this normally calm, reasonable
person is suddenly projected into the flamewars she has always
eschewed?
and who, pray tell, is the mamba of the list?
I thought it was you...
George
-----Message d'origine-----
De : GRHa...@aol.com <GRHa...@aol.com>
À : GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Date : jeudi 19 décembre 2002 05:39
Objet : Re: Lady Godiva Admired
William Addams Reitwiesner
>Dear Mr. Reitwiesner ,
>AR7 177:4, 193:4, and 237:4 give the marriage of Sybil de Neufmarche to Miles fitz Walter, Constable of Gloucester, Earl of Hereford, d. 1143; the son of Walter fitz Roger.
>You called him Miles fitz Richard... do I need to upgrade my records?
Sure, if you'd like.
(Remember what was said here recently about possibly inaccurate statements
being posted to SGM, and then seeing who'd pick up the information and run
with it).
Go right ahead.
Chris Phillips
David Paul Meyer wrote:
> >AR7 177:4, 193:4, and 237:4 give the marriage of Sybil de Neufmarche to
Miles fitz Walter, Constable of Gloucester, Earl of Hereford, d. 1143; the
son of Walter fitz Roger.
> >You called him Miles fitz Richard... do I need to upgrade my records?
William Addams Reitwiesner wrote:
> Sure, if you'd like.
>
> (Remember what was said here recently about possibly inaccurate statements
> being posted to SGM, and then seeing who'd pick up the information and run
> with it).
>
> Go right ahead.
I think/hope this response is tongue-in-cheek.
Miles was the son of Walter, son of Roger de Pitres [Complete Peerage vol.
6, p. 451 and note g].
Chris Phillips
Eve McLaughlin
<D._Spenc...@usa.yale.edu> writes
>Lady Godiva as a 29th Great-Grandmother....
do go away, with your silly claims and your pathetic schoolboy rudeness.
And as for your claim to be the only author of Shakespeare and Burke's
works, can you substantiate that?? No, don't bother to reply.
>"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
>nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
>"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in
>your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of Hamlet,
>Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
>
>All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
>contained herein is copyright and property of the author.
>
--
Eve McLaughlin
Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians
Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society
AGeorgeSand
I wouldnt bet on it; verify everything...
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Chris Phillips <c...@medievalgenealogy.org.uk>
À : GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Date : jeudi 19 décembre 2002 11:31
Objet : Re: Lady Godiva dissected
Sam Sloan
>
>
>David Paul Meyer wrote:
>> >AR7 177:4, 193:4, and 237:4 give the marriage of Sybil de Neufmarche to
>Miles fitz Walter, Constable of Gloucester, Earl of Hereford, d. 1143; the
>son of Walter fitz Roger.
>> >You called him Miles fitz Richard... do I need to upgrade my records?
>
>> Sure, if you'd like.
>>
>> (Remember what was said here recently about possibly inaccurate statements
>> being posted to SGM, and then seeing who'd pick up the information and run
>> with it).
>>
>> Go right ahead.
>
>
>
>Miles was the son of Walter, son of Roger de Pitres [Complete Peerage vol.
>6, p. 451 and note g].
>
>Chris Phillips
I am seriously worried about this. I never rely entirely on what is posted
here, but I do rely to some extent on what is posted here.
If somebody posts false information as a joke, I would regard it as a
serious matter indeed.
Regarding the exchange above, now I do not know what is false and what is
real.
Sam Sloan
GRHa...@aol.com
mthi...@swbell.net writes:
>
> Apology accepted....watch your mouth in the future.
Madam, you will find, in your dealings with me, that I am pretty bad about
saying what I think and what I believe to be true. My mind has not
coagulated to the point where I need to worry about what I say.
If you will notice, I did not apologize for what I said, I apologized that
what I said upset you. My statements from the original message are still my
statements and will not be retracted.
Give up lady, I don't really want to become embroiled with you. My mother
taught me to be kind to women, and I have tried to do that, but I do have a
breaking point.
Gordon Hale
GRHa...@aol.com
AGeor...@wanadoo.fr writes:
> and who, pray tell, is the mamba of the list?
> I thought it was you...
>
The mamba being one of the most venomous reptiles known there is only one
person whose mouth and style of writing could fit that bill. I will only
give the initials S[pencer] H[ines}. He came out in sympathy with Malinda in
a message in which I was named with various unfavorable, impolite,
adjectives. I, like so many others on the list, have experienced similar
problems with the mamba in the past.
I name him as a mamba because he has no rattles. You might consider that I
am a rattlesnake because I often do give warning prior to biting.
Gordon Hale
Sam Sloan
Why don't you just call him by his real name: CENSORED
D. Spencer Hines
What the Rottweiler is saying is that he posted bum dope to SGM. And now he's
reneging, prevaricating and doing a back and fill ---- the old Buck and Wing.
Beware his planted poison pills. And now he's playing with you, David. Cat
and mouse. He won't tell you which is correct ---- Richard or Walter.
Remember his signature line:
"Cruelty to the clueless is my way of dealing with stress".
That's what he's doing with you, David.
And the Rottweiler *still* hasn't admitted that he lied about me and is hiding
in his bunker on that one.
He's a bald-faced liar.
I never stole any of his work and he has failed to prove that I did. He ran
for the tall grass and hid.
So, once again, I call William Addams Reitwiesner out as a fraud, a liar and a
charlatan.
You, _au contraire_, are absolutely correct.
The father of Miles of Gloucester was Walter, NOT Richard.
Here's some more useful information for your database:
Miles [Milo in Latin] of Gloucester. Apparently the only son of his father.
Sheriff and Constable of Gloucester. He married Sibyl de Neufmarché, daughter
of Bernard de Neufmarché and Nest, in April or May 1121. The marriage was
approved by King Henry I. By the marriage and inheritance of lands from
Bernard and his wife, Miles became Lord of Brecknock.
Miles took the side of the Empress Matilda [daughter of Henry I] in the Civil
War with Stephen. She created him Earl of Hereford on 25 July 1141, at
Oxford. He was shot with an arrow, while he was in the Forest of Dean,
hunting, and died on 24 December 1143. He was buried in the chapter house of
Llanthony Priory outside Gloucester, which he had founded.
The father of Miles of Gloucester is WALTER [NOT Richard] of Gloucester,
hereditary sheriff of Gloucester and probably constable. Walter was the son
of Roger de Pitres, who appears in Domesday Book as a tenant-in-chief.
Walter of Gloucester is stated to have married Berthe, who may have been
related to Hamelin de Ballon, lord of Abergavenny.
I hope that helps. The source is _The Complete Peerage_, Volume VI, pages
451-454, where you will find much more interesting detail ---- the kinds of
details you'll never find on "Ag Labs."
Cheers,
Spencer Hines
Deus Vult
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia,
Legem Destruit Moralem.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in
your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of Hamlet,
Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"William Addams Reitwiesner" <reitw...@stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote in
message news:3e01a27...@news.erols.com...
D. Spencer Hines
| here, but I do rely to some extent on what is posted here.
|
| If somebody posts false information as a joke, I would regard it as a
| serious matter indeed.
|
| Regarding the exchange above, now I do not know what is false and what is
| real.
|
| Sam Sloan
Exactly!
That's precisely why what William Addams Reitwiesner is doing is so damnably
contemptible and despicable.
He's poisoning the well deliberately.
Fraud, Liar, Charlatan....
What does he answer?...
William Addams Reitwiesner wrote:
| > Sure, if you'd like.
| >
| >(Remember what was said here recently about possibly inaccurate statements
| >being posted to SGM, and then seeing who'd pick up the information and run
| >with it).
| >
| >Go right ahead.
And:
| >"Cruelty to the clueless is my way of dealing with stress".
Verbum Sapienti....
Deus Vult
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia,
Legem Destruit Moralem.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in
your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of Hamlet,
Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"D. Spencer Hines" <D._Spenc...@usa.yale.edu> wrote in message news:...
Anne Gilbert
>
> The mamba being one of the most venomous reptiles known there is only one
> person whose mouth and style of writing could fit that bill. I will only
> give the initials S[pencer] H[ines}. He came out in sympathy with Malinda
in
> a message in which I was named with various unfavorable, impolite,
> adjectives. I, like so many others on the list, have experienced similar
> problems with the mamba in the past.
>
> I name him as a mamba because he has no rattles. You might consider that
I
> am a rattlesnake because I often do give warning prior to biting.
"The Dispenser" is worse than a mamba. A mamba can at least be credited
with trying to defend itself with its poisonous fangs(or else to seek its
dinner, however unfortunate that might be for the dinner). No such excuse
can be made for "The Dispenser," who is well known on other NG's for similar
inappropriate and idiotic behavior. On these lists, a good laugh is
generally had at his expense. Which is about the only way to handle him.
Anne Gilbert
JKent...@aol.com
sl...@ishipress.com writes:
> >Miles was the son of Walter, son of Roger de Pitres [Complete Peerage vol.
> >6, p. 451 and note g].
> >
>
Should not Miles FitzWalter be the son of some Walter Fitzhoozit. How can he
be a FitzWalter and be the son of a Roger de Pitres?
Jno
Chris Phillips
I wrote:
> > >Miles was the son of Walter, son of Roger de Pitres [Complete Peerage
vol.
> > >6, p. 451 and note g].
Jno wrote:
> Should not Miles FitzWalter be the son of some Walter Fitzhoozit. How can
he
> be a FitzWalter and be the son of a Roger de Pitres?
Sorry if the original message wasn't clear. Miles (fitz Walter) is indeed
the son of Walter. Walter is the son of Roger.
Of course, this can get very confusing a bit later on if the patronymic
evolves into a fixed surname.
Chris Phillips
AGeorgeSand
not that Im a fan of the skirt-chaser, but are you sure we're talking about the same country? He obliterated the national debt, a feat long considered impossible... of course, social security, retirement, medical insurance, & a number of other things went to pot, but not directly thru his fault as far as I could see...
But let's not get too far off-topic... Jefferson (Clinton's middle name) was already beyond the time period limit...
The point is, that people should be judged by their ideas & political-social actions, not by their pulsions...
While some have their brains located below the belt, I dont think it's ever been the case of a president of the United States... in some cases, one might wish it were so simple, but fortunately the system has worked well enough to spare the world such a thing.
If every man who ever lied about fiddlin' around, (esp. under the stoic eyes of his wife & nubile daughter), were to be disbarred, dishonored, & considered caduc, there might be nary a man alive& functioning in the country today.
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Doug McDonald <mcdo...@scs.uiuc.edu>
À : AGeorgeSand <AGeor...@wanadoo.fr>
Date : jeudi 19 décembre 2002 16:51
Objet : Re: Lady Godiva Admired
AGeorgeSand wrote:
>
> Jefferson managed, as did for instance, Clinton, to leave the country in better shape than he got it,
WHAT????? For Clinton, that is!!!
YOU MUST BE KIDDING!!!
Clinton left the country in an economic mess, with financial balloons
puffed up to stupendous proportions just ready to burst, built on the
same kind of lies, fraud, and perjury that he used. There is no
question about that ... remember that he, Clinton, has been disbarred
for
felony perjury.
Clinton also left the country in a state subject where the people
who should have been watching out to protect us from known external
enemies, i.e. Islamic Terrorists, were not even being properly tracked.
A better example than Clinton would be Reagan or Bush #1. Reagan won
the cold war and his economic policies laid the basis for prosperity.
Doug McDonald
Paul J Gans
[usual bowash deleted]
Everyone please note. Mr. Hines, having come out behind in
most of the slagging matches he's started recently has
decided to deflate attention from those disasters by crossposting
to
soc.genealogy.britain
soc.genealogy.medieval
soc.history.medieval
The list may well grow.
Would folks responding to any of his postings please limit both
the newsgroups line and the followups line?
Thanks in advance.
---- Paul J. Gans
David Paul Meyer
Thank you so much for your kindness!
It was terrific of you to take the time to send me the stuff from CP.
A great help indeed.
I am gradually building my CP collection at my local FHC but so little time, so little money. :-)
Yours truly,
David
Humo(u)r is a funny thing.
At 05:54 PM 12/19/2002 +0000, D. Spencer Hines wrote:
><Snipped>
D. Spencer Hines
You are quite welcome.
Cheers,
Deus Vult
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Attributed to Edmund Burke [1729-1797]
Sol Disinfectus Optimus Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia,
Legem Destruit Moralem.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in
your philosophy." ---- William Shakespeare [1564-1616] The Tragedy of Hamlet,
Prince of Denmark, Act I, Scene V, Line 166-167
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly. All original material
contained herein is copyright and property of the author. It may be quoted
only in discussions on this forum and with an attribution to the author,
unless permission is otherwise expressly given, in writing.
------------------
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor.
"David Paul Meyer" <Ancestr...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:5.1.1.6.2.200212...@incoming.verizon.net...
Frank Martin
this year. He's been worse than ever!
"Paul J Gans" <ga...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:attha7$a7j$1...@reader1.panix.com...
erilar
<ga...@panix.com> wrote:
Respond? to him? I suffer much less irritation since I killfiled him and
skip past most responses to him 8-)
--
Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar)
Erilar's Cave Annex:
http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo
Sutliff
on Thomas Jefferson, not know that Poplar Forest was in Bedford County and
not in Lynchburg? Another example that truth, documentation and humility are
beyond your grasp.
Henry Sutliff
"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:3.0.6.32.2002121...@ishipress.com...
Sam Sloan
>How could someone who professes to be the world's second greatest authority
>on Thomas Jefferson, not know that Poplar Forest was in Bedford County and
>not in Lynchburg? Another example that truth, documentation and humility are
>beyond your grasp.
>
>Henry Sutliff
Poplar Forest is now in Lynchburg. It was in Bedford County in Jefferson's
time and was annexed into Lynchburg relatively recently. Poplar Forest is
now inside the city limits of Lynchburg.
Of course, I know that since I grew up in Bedford County.
Sam Sloan
David A. Blocher
reference that this lineage goes back to a
certian "Roger Gyldensleve from 1273 in Norfolk. When I search for the
name of Gyldensleve, I come out empty!
Does anyone have the links between Richard Gildersleeve II to Roger
Gildensleve?
Does the book graphs the links between the two ancestors?
David A. Blocher
"The Gyldensleve-Gildersleeve Family is one of the oldest English families
on record - almost seven hundred years from Roger Gyldensleve, in 1273
land-holder in Norfolk, whose name was derived from "sleeves braided with
gold." Richard Gildersleeve, Puritan, born in 1601 in Suffolk, England, came
to New England in 1635, and was a pioneer in the settlements of Connecticut,
Dutch New York and Long Island, as was his son, Richard 2d. The grandson,
Richard 3d of Northport, founded the older line of Gildersleeve families
that has spread all over America, while his brother Thomas was founder of
the more numerous younger line and very prominent in St. George's Church of
Hempstead. The greater portion of the book is made up of records of these
first four Gildersleeve pioneers, who from 1635 to 1740 helped to settle a
virgin wilderness in New England and New York, and firmly lay the
foundations of our country. This was done in constant battle against the
oppression of royal governors of the exploited colonial province of New
York. The records show how these pioneers were forced to meet persecution
and oppression such as no other colonists faced."
Apsg...@aol.com
reference that this lineage goes back to a >certian "Roger Gyldensleve from
1273 in Norfolk. When I search for the >name of Gyldensleve, I come out
empty! >Does anyone have the links between Richard Gildersleeve II to Roger >
Gildensleve?>>
Actually, it only indicates that there is an occurrence of a man ad Roger
Gyldensleve in Norfolk in 1273. There is not an unbroken line of descent.
I have written an article on the English origins of the immigrant which
should be published in the New England Historical and Genealogical Register
this year. Evidence of the English origin was not previously known, nor was
the extended ancestry. (Henry Hoff, the editor of the NEHGR, happened to be
talking with me at the very moment I found the proof of the connection and
let out a yelp.)
Paul C. Reed