C.P. Addition: Maiden name of Alice Perrers, mistress of King Edward III of England
Douglas Richardson
In recent time, I discussed new evidence which proves that Alice
Perrers, the notorious mistress of King Edward III of England, and
subsequently wife of William de Windsor, Lord Windsor, was previously
the widow and executrix of Janyn Perrers, of London, which Janyn was
living 24 June 1360. Interested parties who want better particulars
of the of Alice's Perrers' first marriage may wish consult my former
post on the topic in the soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup archives.
Or, they may wish to read the well researched article on the subject
by the noted historian, W.M. Ormrod, in Chaucer Review 40 (2006): 219-
229.
Alice Perrers is found in many contemporary records, as she had a
penchant for acquiring lands and filing lawsuits over them. She also
seems to have had a fixation regarding her jewels. As best I can
tell, Alice was almost always on the taking end of every thing I've
seen, except in one record which I encountered which I've copied
below.
Canterbury Cathedral Archives: Dean and Chaper Archive, Chartae
Antiquae Z - ref. CCA-DCc-ChAnt/Z (Inquisition taken at Canterbury,
Kent 24 Sept. 1378 before John Brede, the king's escheator for Kent.
The jurors say that William Salesby and Christina his wife, Joan,
William's mother, Alice Perrers and John Hanney, chaplain purchased a
messuage called the Fleur de Lis ('Flourdelys') in the city of
Canterbury, to be held by them for the term of their lives. Seven
years ago [i.e., 1371] Joan and Alice released their right in the
messuage to William by a deed made at Pallingswick [in Fulham],
Middlesex. The jurors do not know about the seal of Alice and Joan,
but they believe that the release was made and that the messuage is
worth 53s. 4d. a year) (abstract of document is available online at
http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp).
As we can see, Alice Perrers is involved with a certain William
Salesby and Christina his wife and Joan, William's mother, in a land
transaction in Kent. The record relates that at some point about
1371, Alice Perrers and Joan Salesby released their right in the
property to William Salesby. The release was made at Pallingswick (in
Fulham), Middlesex which was Alice Perrers' residence.
This record is unusual as it puts Alice Perrers on the giving end
(which is highly unusual for her), and also involves her in a record
with two other women (again this is unusual). Given Alice's
character, temperament, and the way she appears in other records, I
suspected that the Salesby family were near related to Alice Perrers.
In fact, given that Alice named both of her daughters Joan, I
speculated that Joan Salesby was Alice Perrers' own mother.
In recent time, I've been advised by the historian W.M. Ormod that
there is in fact in the National Archives Catalogue a document which
specifically refers to a "John de Salisbury" as Alice Perrers'
brother. The record is presented below:
SC 8/104/5165 (http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
search.asp)
Petitioner: John de Cobham, son of the Countess Marshal.
Addressees: King and Council.
Places mentioned: Ardington, [Berkshire].
Other people mentioned: Edward III, King of England; Mary [of
Brotherton (de Cobham, de Brewes), countess of Norfolk and] Countess
Marshal; Alice Perrers; William de Middleton; John de Salisbury,
brother of Alice Perrers; William de Gresley, chaplain to Alice; Ralph
Cobham.
Nature of request: The petitioner seeks recovery of various debts owed
him by Alice Perrers:
1) He complains that Middleton (his attorney), leased the manor of
Ardington to Alice at farm for £80 in 1364, and sold her all the corn,
goods and chattels for a certain sum of silver, of which there are
arrears of £19 3s, as shown in an indenture made between them.
2) He complains that Alice held the manor at the said farm for twelve
years, which amounts to £960, which sum is still withheld from him.
3) He complains that the late king was held to him in 1000 marks, from
which sum Alice granted 20 marks to John de Salisbury without the
petitioner's warrant, as shown in the Receipt of the said king.
4) He also complains that Alice granted William de Gresley 40 marks
from the said sum without his warrant, as also appears in the said
Receipt, of which £40 the petitioner is charged in the Receipt and
which he has still not recovered.
Endorsement: [None]
Covering dates [1377]
Former reference (Department) Parliamentary Petition 2262
The above petition deals with John de Cobham's difficult dealings with
Alice Perrers. However, it shows Alice Perrers once again on the
giving end, she having granted 20 marks to her brother, John de
Salisbury, and 40 marks to her chaplain, William de Gresley. In this
case, the "giving" was done at the expense of John de Cobham.
Mr. Ormrod informs me that he is planning to publish an article
regarding the above petition in the journal, Speculum, sometime in the
near future. He is planning to include the record I found involving
Alice Perrers and the Salesby family. Salesby is but one of the many
alternative forms of Salisbury in this time period.
For now, we know for certain that Alice Perrers had a brother named
John de Salisbury, and that she may have been related to the Salesby
family. This information is a new addition to the account of Alice's
second husband, William de Windsor, in the authoritative Complete
Peerage, 12(2) (1959): 877-880 (sub Wyndesore).
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
al...@mindspring.com
Hi Douglas
One potential father for Alice may be the Sir John de Salusbury,
King's esquire, who was attainted and beheaded in 1388. He was
married to Joan de Hastang. CP VI: 344. Only one of many
possibilities but may be worth looking at.
Doug Smith
Douglas Richardson
Thank you for your good response.
I've seen a rough draft of Mr. Ormrod's article which deals with John
de Salisbury, the brother of Alice Perrers. He has considered at
least two separate and distinct individuals named John de Salisbury
who could be the man who was Alice's brother. One of them is the Sir
John de Salisbury you mentioned. He also mentions the possible
connection to the Salesby family. The essential problem with making a
good identification in this case is that the name Salisbury is fairly
common in this time period. Also, there is only one record in which
Alice Perrers appears with her brother, John de Salisbury. So we have
a fleeting reference to Alice's brother, and that is all. Also, this
being so early, there are few probate records available for most
families.
Insofar as the Salesby connection is concerned, I might add that my
research indicates that Alice Perrers first sufaces in the records in
Kent. So Kent might well be Alice's original county of origin. One
chronicler stated Alice was the daughter of a man who resided at
Hanney, but gave no county. There are at least two Hanney's in
England, one in Essex and one in Berkshire. The same chronicler also
alleged that Alice had lived with a man before she beame the king's
mistress. He made no mention of her lawful marriage to Janyn de
Perrers, or that she had a legitimate daughter by that marriage. So
I'm not sure how much weight should be given to the chronicler's
statements.
Regardless, if anyone has any pertinent information which they think
might shed light on this problem, I know Mr. Ormrod would appreciate
hearing from them. I'm fairly sure he can add new material to his
article until it is published. As of three months ago, the article
had been submitted but not yet published.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
On Mar 2, 6:47 am, "al...@mindspring.com" <al...@mindspring.com>
wrote: