genealogy of Drinkwater, Leigh, Leichester, Massey, Duttons, Cholmondley, Bulkely

[Annie Natalelli-Waloszek]

De: Annie Natalelli-Waloszek <Xan...@Wanadoo.fr>
À: Gordon.Annbrown <Gordon....@btinternet.com>
Objet: Re: genealogy of Drinkwater, Leigh, Leichester, Massey, Duttons, etc
Date : mardi 18 septembre 2001 05:21

This is my unformed as yet, Drinkwater link, (post-1500)
& it's on a section of the Coppock tree that
I haven't yet found the links from, to my
line; if you have anything to add or correct,
please don't hesitate...

There's a series of 4 George Coppocks (the
last had a son born abt 1664 IIRC) who were
living in Dutton and closely allied to
Duttons, with a marraige or two; they witnessed
each others' wills and also one of the Georges
left provisions for some of the Duttons.

two pamphlets are out on NE Cheshire Local History,
mentioning many of these people & describing the life
& times; one is called Piggins, Husslements,
& Desperate Debts, the other is something like
Northeast Cheshire in the Civil War, impact of the
Civil War on a community... these have bits
of trees, etc. (they're inexpensive, but if it's complicated
for you to get them, I can send you scans, tho she does
need to make a living...)

During a recent research trip I picked
up some pedigrees for Brereton which show links
to Leigh, Leichester, Massey, Crewe, Cholmondley,
Bulkeley etc, but they may not be of interest to your specific
branches, tho I know they'll link to Coppocks
somewhere...

I have a Zouche link, but not through them, so I'd
be most interested in seeing how that links up...
there was a lot of discussion of Cholmondley for a
while, & I don't remember if I posted the pedigree
containing it, but if not, I should probably dig out the
guy who was looking for that...

Martinscroft rings a bell but I don't know where;
the others draw a blank.

Looks like we're cousins after all! No wonder we
recognized each other early on!

I thought I read page on a manuscript Digby pedigree
I ordered from the Royal Commission for Historical
Manuscripts.

I found out about my Page being a Gage by
crosschecking with another Digby Pedigree;
this is a line that links in with the Anthony
Brownes, mayors of London, which also confirmed
my misread, as the rest of the pedigree fit...

IF your Pages were Gages, not only might you
find a link to the Brownes of London, but also
this would have the strange coincidence of implying
a more direct link between the Coppocks and Digbys
through Drinkwater, which would be funny, as I found in
Lord Digby's portrait collection, a small painting by a
Coppock nephew, Benjamin West... this seemed
indicative of former closer ties ... otherwise how
would they have come in contact with this relatively
obscure American landscape painter, & persuaded
him to do a portrait of a Digby child?

Still, you mustn't "want" the link to badly; perhaps
you can show me the Manuscript, to see if it's the
same writing? The Gages I have were not in Cheshire tho...

"I soon found a published book The Drinkwaters
of Cheshire Lancashire and the Isle of Man.
In this book it shows a pedigree of my family
from Peter Drinkwater marrying Elizabeth Leigh
in 1870 going back to King David of Scotland and
also William the Conqueror."

So, THAT's why you didn't laugh at my Adam lines...
I would VERY much like to see a line from the
Leighs & Drinkwaters back to King David of Scotland
and also William the Conqueror... of Course you know
that a line from King David can be traced "all the way
back" pretty easily using published historical pedigrees,
& CDs, somewhat shaky & contestable at points
but a great trip through time, & a good place to start!
Does your book show any Coppocks married to Drinkwaters?

I have a Henry Coppock leasing land to Rbt Drinkwater (abt 1619)
who's daughter Dorothy married William Tomlinson of Kenworthy &
Northenden, & who leased Tatton Hall.
Joan Coppock (mentioned in a will of Richard Coppock d 1648) also let land to Drinkwater; Edward Coppock owed him money, and Eds,
John, Henry, & Joan are all together mentioned with Drinkwater in Richard's will...

This is a fairly close relationship, that
usually results in descendants intermarrying, from my experience of the Coppocks...
can you scan it & we swap for the ones I have?
All this time, we could have been helping each other!
Have we discussed this before?

Here's the portion of the Digby pedigree mentioning Gage, first read
as Page:
9.son James Gage of Bentley in the Parish of Framfield Co Sussex, 2nd Son, living 1555. Will dated 20 Dec 1569 Proved 16 October
1573... m Jane, dau & coheir of unknown, Delves of Bentley, widow of John Bellingham of Erringham, Co Sussex, Birr d at Framfield
aforesaid
(next page linked through sibling of James Gage, Sir Anthony Browne's wife, Alice Gage)
1. Sir Anthony Browne (of London?) m Alice, dau of Sir John Gage, K.G.
2. dau Mabel Browne, sis of Visct Montagu, m Gerald Fitzgerald 15th Earl of Kildare.
3. son Gerald Lord Offaley (eldest son died before his father) m Katharine dau of Right Hon Sir Frances Knolles K.G. by sis of Wm
Knolles, Visct Wallingsford
(WAR said somewhere that Knolles line is related to Queen Elizabeth's sister or something?)
4. dau Hon Lettice Fitzgerald (created Baronnesse Offaley) m Sir Robert Digby, Knight (died 24 May, 1616)
5. son Right Rev Essex Digby, REctor of Geshil Bishop of Dromore, m Thomasina, dau of Sir Wm Gilbert of Kilminchy in Queens Co
knight
6. son Right Rev Simon Digby Lord Bishop of Rolphin, m Elizabeth dau of Warner Westenia, Esq.
etc.

Hope this helps,
Annie

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Gordon.Annbrown <Gordon....@btinternet.com>
À : Annie Natalelli-Waloszek <Xan...@Wanadoo.fr>
Date : lundi 17 septembre 2001 20:34
Objet : Re: genealogy of Page of Stathum

>Hi Annie,
>Thank you for responding.
>I think it is Page.
>I have it form Ormerods and The Visitations of Cheshire. Not that it would
>necessarily make it right. But the that is the name. They seem to have a
>lot to do with various different families that are all interlinked with each
>other. Massey, Leigh. Martinscroft,Leycester Boydell, Wylme,Dutton, Zouch,
>and probably others I have neglected to mention at present.
>All these families seem to go back to the medieval period and my Drinkwater
>link seems to stop at 1500 but I think maybe they could have gone under
>another name earlier.
>I have made a few notes from what I have;
>In Ormerods Page of Eardshaw and Drakelow
>in the additions section it mentions Nicolas Page
>In the section covering Lymm Parish p578
>persons living now no.21 Peter Page of Stathom
>In the Kekwick section , my Peter Drinkwater formerly one Massies
>Ormerods
>Wylme and Leigh of Outrington
>Elizabeth Leigh dau of John Leigh born 1643 married Peter Drinkwater. This
>is my connection.
>Also in the Keckwick section mentions Claytons and Randull and Richard
>Drinkater. They had dealings together.
>
>In the Visitations of Cheshire 1580
>Northwich Hundred
>Roger Page of Yardshawe , which I take to be Eardshawe.
>It also lists Ligh at Outrington
>Several Masseys, one of Hall.
>and William Drinckwater of Stathom.
>
>Clayton of Thelwall in the same Visitations Harl.1424 fo. 39
>Randoll Clayton married Ellen dau and coheir of Nico. Page of Stathum
>The next generation is 1566 so I guess they would be about 1530.
>
>
>The Drinkwater family seem to have had dealings with the Claytons, Leighs,
>Martinscroft, Wylme, Page.
>All living in the same areas ro several generations and I am just trying to
>establish a link
>
>I see what you mean by is it Gage.
>Also we have common ancestors. How did you find and prove that you were
>looking at the wrong name in Page and it was Gage. How did you come across
>Page in your research in the first place?
>
>I hope that you understand my ramblings. I am not that sure with citing
>sources in medieval genealogy, as I was researching my family tree for about
>twelve years before I came across the Drinkwater Leigh marriage.
>This was the major jump that took me whizzing back in time and I had not
>personally come across anybody that had ancestors that far back.
>Everything seemed to happen at once. I soon found a published book The
>Drinkwaters of Cheshire Lancashire and the Isle of Man. In this book it
>shows a pedigree of my family from Peter Drinkwater marrying Elizabeth Leigh
>in 1870 going back to King David of Scotland and also William the Conqueror.
>In the book it stops at David but that is probably from lack of space . but
>that information is available in other places.
>I only joined the Gen med. list late last year and find it quite a
>challenge.
>I am still taking in all the different lines that go even further back from
>King David of Scotland and William the Conqueror.Some of the source material
>is quite confusing as it contradicts so much.
>I would love to see some of the information on the Gage name as it could be
>what you say, and I am looking in the wrong places for my ancestry.
>Having gone as far back as is possible from the Leigh line, I am now trying
>to piece together a line further back on the Drinkwaters or trace some of
>the other family names a bit further back than I have done as yet
>Ann
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Annie Natalelli-Waloszek" <Xan...@Wanadoo.fr>
>To: "Gordon.Annbrown" <gordon....@btinternet.com>
>Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 5:13 PM
>Subject: Re: genealogy of Page of Stathum
>
>
>High
>
>My coppocks had doings with Leighs, Masseys, Dutton, and Breretons in
>Cheshire; we must be neighbors and cousins, among other
>things; I had some folks I thought were Pages turned out to be Gages, are
>you sure you're reading the name right? if not, I have
>some stuff on Gage...
>
>
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De : Gordon.Annbrown <Gordon....@btinternet.com>
>À : GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
>Date : lundi 17 septembre 2001 17:23
>Objet : genealogy of Page of Stathum
>
>
>>Hello all,
>>Back to the medieval period Can anybody recognise or identify a family
>known
>>as Page of Statham near Lymm in Cheshire.
>>Though not directly related, the name keeps cropping up in various places
>>from C14 to middle C16.
>>There are some listed in the Visitations of Cheshire 1580 . They also
>appear
>>marrying into different families in Cheshire, Leigh, Massey Dutton ect.
>>My original main line was Drinkwater but so far have not gone past 1500 so
>>they don't apply to the Medieval time but they married into the Leigh
>family
>>of Outrington.
>>My links are also with the Leigh Massey and Dutton families and their other
>>collateral lines.
>>But I would be interested if anybody knows more about the Page family.
>>Thanks
>>Ann Brown
>>
>>
>
>

[Sutliff]

As indicated in my recent posts, I am working on Ormerod and other
sources for many, many Cheshire families, including Legh, Massey,
Fitton, Hooton, Stanley, Torond, Pulford, Venables, Vernon, Bulkeley,
Dutton, Birtles, Downes, Mobberley, Domville, Coroun, Honford, Orreby,
Cotton, Hulse, Wrenbury, Crewe, Arderne, Minshull, Fouleshurst,
Bromley, Bostock, Huxley, Storeton, Mainwaring, Hulgreve, Hulme,
Wheelock, Sandbach, Brereton, Davenport, Rode, Lathom, Lawton,
Boydell, Eton, Hatton, Banastre, Egerton, Malpas, Lancelyn, Done,
Weever, Norley, Gerard, Acton, Aston, Kingsley, Hellesby, Thornton,
Hatton, Daniell/Danyers, Savage, Touchet, etc.

Will try to help where possible.

Henry Sutliff

[Annie Natalelli-Waloszek]

Do they mention any Cop(p)ock(e)/Copoke/Cob(b)ok(e)/Cop(p)ak(e)/Cap(p)ake?

You might be interested to know that the names cited in the subject line
all intermarry & link together rather nicely... but I'm afraid
I'd want so know so much, that the only solution will be to order
the CD of Omerod's, which I'd been meaning to do... it'll be
easier when England goes over to the Euro like France has, & they'll accept checks!

Thanks for the offer; whatever they say about
Mobberley and Wilmslow parishes, & about any
Coppocks, would be a nice start...

Annie

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Sutliff <ss...@earthlink.net>
Ą : GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Date : mardi 18 septembre 2001 07:11
Objet : Re: genealogy of Drinkwater, Leigh, Leichester, Massey, Duttons, Cholmondley, Bulkely

[Sutliff]

As it is well past midnight here in California I better get to bed
before long as a busy day tomorrow. Only had time for one look up.
There is a Coppock pedigree in Ormerod at I:667. It shows the
descendants of John Coppock of Sutton near Frodsham who married
Frances Starkey (d. 1719). It is primarily a pedigree of the Starkey
family, but contains this descent.

Hope this helps,

HS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Annie Natalelli-Waloszek" <Xan...@Wanadoo.fr>