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RD600 Did Henry Filmer of James City Co., VA leave descendants?
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Nathan Murphy
Dec 17, 2016, 7:18:26 PM12/17/16
to
I have been investigating whether or not American gateway Henry Filmer (d. abt 1671) left descendants. I have concluded he has descendants through a daughter.
Henry Filmer, Gentleman, settled in counties in Virginia (James City, Warwick) where most records haven't survived. He was a member of the House of Burgesses for both counties (RA2:584). As I investigated contemporary sources, I could only find two possible references to children:
1. In a letter Henry Filmer wrote to Thomas Young in 1652/3, he describes his voyage from Gravesend to Virginia, and states '...the same day, my kinsman, my cooke & the litle boy by the way were a little stomacke sick...'
2. In a letter Henry Filmer of Virginia wrote to [his uncle] Robert Filmer, Esq. back in England in 1665, he states 'My wife & daughter with myselfe, present our humble service, with a like token...'
Source: Peter Walne, '"Henry Filmer of Mulberry Island, Gentleman:" A Collection of Letters from Virginia, 1653-1671,' The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, Vol. 68, No. 4 (Oct. 1960), 408-428 at 411-412, 424-425. The original letters are preserved at the County Record Office in Kent, England.
In the 1652/3 letter, 'the litle boy' could be a reference to a son of Henry Filmer, or it could be a reference to an indentured servant he took with him to the colonies. There was not a prominent Filmer family in Colonial Virginia, other than Henry himself. He may not have male descendants. In the 1665 letter, it seems straightforward that Henry had a daughter, but he doesn't identify her by name. Only part of Henry Filmer's will survives - the portion that relates to a bequest to a church in Kent that was copied into a letter.
Douglas Richardson, in RA2:584, states Henry Filmer had 'one son and one daughter, Martha (wife of Thomas Green).'
As I followed references in published genealogies, I came across Library of Virginia Accession Number 32301 'Clay Family Genealogical Notes,' and ordered copies. These genealogical notes and a chart were found among the papers of Green Clay (1757-1828) of Kentucky. It is thought they were written in the 1820s, or by one of his sisters in the 1840s. Here are some of the pertinent statements:
Green Clay's parents 'Charles Clay & Martha Green married 1741 Nov 11'
'Martha Clay her Mother Born 1719 Novr 25'
'Martha Clay her Mother Died 1793 Sept 6'
'Thos. Green our Maternal Grand Father died 1730'
'Elizabeth Mastin Maternal Grand Mother died 1759 Augt 11'
'Thomas Green our Great Grand Father by the maternal line married Martha Filmer a Daughter of Maj[o]r Henry Filmer a British Officer who's wifes name was Elizabeth both of whom were from England'
'Thomas Green the Sea Gull had issue by Martha Filmer 9 children five sones and four Daughters being the first american Born generation to wit:
1st John Green married to Elizabeth
2d Thomas Green our Grand father married Elizabeth Mastin
3 Elizabeth married to John Crawley
4 Rebecca married to [blank] Condon[?] and 2d marriage to [blank] Marston
5 Mary married to James Wilkerson
6 Col Abraham Green of Amelia County Virginia
8 [sic] Wm[?faint] Green married to Amey Clay
7 Filmer Green
9 Hannah married to James Turner'
Also states #6 Col Abraham Green and #7 Filmer Green named sons 'Filmer Green.'
'Thomas Green (2d child of Thomas Green the Sea Gull) married to Eliza Mastin (first child of Thos. Mastin and Elizabeth Marvell[?]) our Grand Father had issue to wit:
1st Elizabeth married to [blank] Dawson mother of said Dawson [a few barely legible words]
2d William Green died without Issue
3 Lucy married to Henry Clay
4 Martha married to Charles Clay, our father
5 Thomas Green moved to Natchez on the Mississippi
6 Mastin Green of Amelia County Virginia died Young - no issue
7 Rebecca married to Frances Jones moved to So Carrolina
8 Mastin Green 2d Son of that name of Amelia County had issue had a son & daughter'
On the chart, which is titled 'A table of Consanguinity of the Ascending line of Green Clays Family,' it is stated 'Henry Filmer Maternal Grand Father[']s Maternal Grand Father,' was married to 'Elizabeth Maternal Grand Father[']s Maternal Grand Mother.' Their daughter 'Martha [word] Filmer Maternal Grand Fathers Mother,' married to 'Thos Green Maternal Grandfathers Paternal Father Sea Gull.' Their son 'Thos Green Maternal Grand Father,' was married to 'Eliza Marstin Maternal Grand Mother.' Their daughter was 'Martha Green Mother,' who was married to 'Chas Clay Father,' and then their 11 children are identified.
In conclusion these notes were recorded circa 1820 by Green Clay or possibly his sisters in the 1840s (see Robert Young Clay, 'John Clay, Fact and Fiction,' address to Jamestowne Society, 6 May 1995, http://www.clayfamilysociety.org/ui38.htm). They were great-grandchildren of Martha (Filmer) Green. It is reasonable to accept that they knew the identity of their great-grandmother and because her father was a prominent person in Virginia's history, the identity of their great-great-grandfather Henry Filmer. I haven't found anything more contemporary that identifies Henry Filmer's descendants than the Clay papers.
Nathan
Henry Filmer, Gentleman, settled in counties in Virginia (James City, Warwick) where most records haven't survived. He was a member of the House of Burgesses for both counties (RA2:584). As I investigated contemporary sources, I could only find two possible references to children:
1. In a letter Henry Filmer wrote to Thomas Young in 1652/3, he describes his voyage from Gravesend to Virginia, and states '...the same day, my kinsman, my cooke & the litle boy by the way were a little stomacke sick...'
2. In a letter Henry Filmer of Virginia wrote to [his uncle] Robert Filmer, Esq. back in England in 1665, he states 'My wife & daughter with myselfe, present our humble service, with a like token...'
Source: Peter Walne, '"Henry Filmer of Mulberry Island, Gentleman:" A Collection of Letters from Virginia, 1653-1671,' The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, Vol. 68, No. 4 (Oct. 1960), 408-428 at 411-412, 424-425. The original letters are preserved at the County Record Office in Kent, England.
In the 1652/3 letter, 'the litle boy' could be a reference to a son of Henry Filmer, or it could be a reference to an indentured servant he took with him to the colonies. There was not a prominent Filmer family in Colonial Virginia, other than Henry himself. He may not have male descendants. In the 1665 letter, it seems straightforward that Henry had a daughter, but he doesn't identify her by name. Only part of Henry Filmer's will survives - the portion that relates to a bequest to a church in Kent that was copied into a letter.
Douglas Richardson, in RA2:584, states Henry Filmer had 'one son and one daughter, Martha (wife of Thomas Green).'
As I followed references in published genealogies, I came across Library of Virginia Accession Number 32301 'Clay Family Genealogical Notes,' and ordered copies. These genealogical notes and a chart were found among the papers of Green Clay (1757-1828) of Kentucky. It is thought they were written in the 1820s, or by one of his sisters in the 1840s. Here are some of the pertinent statements:
Green Clay's parents 'Charles Clay & Martha Green married 1741 Nov 11'
'Martha Clay her Mother Born 1719 Novr 25'
'Martha Clay her Mother Died 1793 Sept 6'
'Thos. Green our Maternal Grand Father died 1730'
'Elizabeth Mastin Maternal Grand Mother died 1759 Augt 11'
'Thomas Green our Great Grand Father by the maternal line married Martha Filmer a Daughter of Maj[o]r Henry Filmer a British Officer who's wifes name was Elizabeth both of whom were from England'
'Thomas Green the Sea Gull had issue by Martha Filmer 9 children five sones and four Daughters being the first american Born generation to wit:
1st John Green married to Elizabeth
2d Thomas Green our Grand father married Elizabeth Mastin
3 Elizabeth married to John Crawley
4 Rebecca married to [blank] Condon[?] and 2d marriage to [blank] Marston
5 Mary married to James Wilkerson
6 Col Abraham Green of Amelia County Virginia
8 [sic] Wm[?faint] Green married to Amey Clay
7 Filmer Green
9 Hannah married to James Turner'
Also states #6 Col Abraham Green and #7 Filmer Green named sons 'Filmer Green.'
'Thomas Green (2d child of Thomas Green the Sea Gull) married to Eliza Mastin (first child of Thos. Mastin and Elizabeth Marvell[?]) our Grand Father had issue to wit:
1st Elizabeth married to [blank] Dawson mother of said Dawson [a few barely legible words]
2d William Green died without Issue
3 Lucy married to Henry Clay
4 Martha married to Charles Clay, our father
5 Thomas Green moved to Natchez on the Mississippi
6 Mastin Green of Amelia County Virginia died Young - no issue
7 Rebecca married to Frances Jones moved to So Carrolina
8 Mastin Green 2d Son of that name of Amelia County had issue had a son & daughter'
On the chart, which is titled 'A table of Consanguinity of the Ascending line of Green Clays Family,' it is stated 'Henry Filmer Maternal Grand Father[']s Maternal Grand Father,' was married to 'Elizabeth Maternal Grand Father[']s Maternal Grand Mother.' Their daughter 'Martha [word] Filmer Maternal Grand Fathers Mother,' married to 'Thos Green Maternal Grandfathers Paternal Father Sea Gull.' Their son 'Thos Green Maternal Grand Father,' was married to 'Eliza Marstin Maternal Grand Mother.' Their daughter was 'Martha Green Mother,' who was married to 'Chas Clay Father,' and then their 11 children are identified.
In conclusion these notes were recorded circa 1820 by Green Clay or possibly his sisters in the 1840s (see Robert Young Clay, 'John Clay, Fact and Fiction,' address to Jamestowne Society, 6 May 1995, http://www.clayfamilysociety.org/ui38.htm). They were great-grandchildren of Martha (Filmer) Green. It is reasonable to accept that they knew the identity of their great-grandmother and because her father was a prominent person in Virginia's history, the identity of their great-great-grandfather Henry Filmer. I haven't found anything more contemporary that identifies Henry Filmer's descendants than the Clay papers.
Nathan
Steve Riggan
Dec 17, 2016, 7:41:50 PM12/17/16
to Nathan Murphy, gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Nathan, the Filmer family is interesting. I have also seen this information you posted in regard to the Greens. I am a descendant of Henry Filmer's sister Katherine Filmer who married Robert Barham. Their son, Charles Barham, also came to Virginia settling in the Surry Co. I will look through the information I have gleaned on my own line to see if there is any documented associations between these families. As you said, many records have been lost in these areas, but occasionally some gems still exist.
Steve Riggan
________________________________
From: GEN-MEDIEVAL <gen-medieval-bounces+sriggan=hotma...@rootsweb.com> on behalf of Nathan Murphy <nathan...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2016 4:18 PM
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: RD600 Did Henry Filmer of James City Co., VA leave descendants?
John Clay, Fact and Fiction<http://www.clayfamilysociety.org/ui38.htm>
www.clayfamilysociety.org
A Speech Given at the Jamestowne Society, May 6, 1995 by renowned Clay researcher and speaker, the late Robert Young Clay, (4 September 1936-6 May 2010) [i]
Nathan
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Steve Riggan
________________________________
From: GEN-MEDIEVAL <gen-medieval-bounces+sriggan=hotma...@rootsweb.com> on behalf of Nathan Murphy <nathan...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2016 4:18 PM
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Subject: RD600 Did Henry Filmer of James City Co., VA leave descendants?
www.clayfamilysociety.org
A Speech Given at the Jamestowne Society, May 6, 1995 by renowned Clay researcher and speaker, the late Robert Young Clay, (4 September 1936-6 May 2010) [i]
Nathan
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GEN-MEDIEV...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Nathan Murphy
Dec 17, 2016, 7:46:45 PM12/17/16
to
>I will look through the information I have gleaned on my own line to see if there is any documented associations between these families. As you said, many records have been lost in these areas, but occasionally some gems still exist.
Thanks Steve. I'd be most interested in additional information.
Nathan
Denis Beauregard
Dec 20, 2016, 7:49:12 PM12/20/16
to
On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 16:18:25 -0800 (PST), Nathan Murphy
<nathan...@gmail.com> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
>I have been investigating whether or not American gateway Henry Filmer (d. abt 1671) left descendants. I have concluded he has descendants through a daughter.
When he called me, a few years ago, Roberts asked about the
Quebec royal descents. From that call, I would say one major
criteria for his RD600 is the gateway ancestor has some descendant
still living. If that true for all the 600 lines ?
Denis
--
Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/
French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
Sur cédérom à 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785
<nathan...@gmail.com> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
>I have been investigating whether or not American gateway Henry Filmer (d. abt 1671) left descendants. I have concluded he has descendants through a daughter.
Quebec royal descents. From that call, I would say one major
criteria for his RD600 is the gateway ancestor has some descendant
still living. If that true for all the 600 lines ?
Denis
--
Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - www.francogene.com/genealogie--quebec/
French in North America before 1722 - www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/
Sur cédérom à 1785 - On CD-ROM to 1785
Nathan Murphy
Dec 20, 2016, 11:57:12 PM12/20/16
to
> When he called me, a few years ago, Roberts asked about the
> Quebec royal descents. From that call, I would say one major
> criteria for his RD600 is the gateway ancestor has some descendant
> still living. If that true for all the 600 lines ?
Hi Denis,
> Quebec royal descents. From that call, I would say one major
> criteria for his RD600 is the gateway ancestor has some descendant
> still living. If that true for all the 600 lines ?
My understanding is that he does include some American immigrants who have no known descendants, but flags them with acronyms like 'but left no NDTPS,' meaning left no notable descendants treated in printed sources.
Nathan
grem...@comcast.net
Mar 20, 2018, 3:01:44 PM3/20/18
to
Hello Nathan, I just wanted to confirm that you are correct. Henry Filmer has descendants through his daughter. I am one of them! I am a descendant of Thomas "Seagull" Green who married Henry's daughter, Martha Elizabeth. I'm glad I stumbled upon this. Very exciting to unravel family history. - Matt Green
leslie...@gmail.com
Jul 10, 2018, 4:03:54 AM7/10/18
to
On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 4:18:26 PM UTC-8, Nathan Murphy wrote:
http://wargs.com/other/spears.html
However, I haven't found any evidence for the marriage of
Richard Griffin & Mary Green (#6012 and #6013).
Leslie
Nathan Murphy
Jul 10, 2018, 9:40:25 PM7/10/18
to
> Henry Filmer is supposedly an ancestor of Britney Spears:
>
> http://wargs.com/other/spears.html
>
>
> However, I haven't found any evidence for the marriage of
> Richard Griffin & Mary Green (#6012 and #6013).
>
>
> Leslie
That's interesting Leslie, I hadn't heard that. In the Henry Clay papers it is stated Filmer and Mary (Walker) Green had a daughter Marry[sic] Green, but her spouse is not identified.
>
> http://wargs.com/other/spears.html
>
>
> However, I haven't found any evidence for the marriage of
> Richard Griffin & Mary Green (#6012 and #6013).
>
>
> Leslie
I see my Bass family on the chart.
Nathan
JohnnoH
Jul 23, 2018, 2:50:32 AM7/23/18
to
See below copy of Will of Elizabeth GREEN (nee Marston) for your info:
Her will was probated in Amelia County Jan 24, 1760.
1760
WILL of ELIZABETH GREEN (nee MARSTON).
Dated 12 Nov 1758 Proved 24 Jan 1760
In the name of God, Amen. I, ELIZABETH GREEN, of Nottoway Parish, Amelia
County, being very sick and weak in body, but of sound and disposing mind
and memory, yet considering the uncertainty of this mortal life, think it
necessary to make and ordain this my last will and testament, which is as
followeth:
I give and bequeath to my well-beloved son, MARSTON GREEN, the land and
plantation whereon I now live, containing one hundred and fifty acres, be
the same more or less, lying and being in Amelia County and joining the
lines of Charles Irby, Richard Jones, William Fitzgerald and William Hudson;
also two negroes, Cyrus and Bridget, to him and his heirs forever.
Item. I give and bequeath to my well-beloved daughter, REBEKAH JONES the
feather bed and furniture whereon I now lye, and all my wearing apparel,
both lining and wooling, and one dozen of the newest Pewter Plates, to her
and her heirs forever.
Item. I give and bequeath to my grandson, THOMAS COWLES, son of THOMAS
COWLES, twenty shillings to buy him a gold mourning ring, to him and his
heirs forever.
Item. I give to my grand daughter, ELIZABETH GREEN, daughter of THOMAS
GREEN, twenty shillings, to buy her a gold mourning ring, to her and her
heirs forever.
Item. I give and bequeath to my loving daughter, LUCY CLAY, twenty
shillings, to buy her a gold mourning ring.
Item. I give and bequeath to my loving daughter, MARTHA CLAY, twenty
shillings, to buy her a gold ring.
Item. I give and bequeath to my loving daughter, ELIZABETH CHEATEM, twenty
shillings to buy her a gold ring.
Item. I give and bequeath to my loving son, MARSTON GREEN, after my debts
and the above legacies are paid, all the remainder of my estate, both real
and personal, to him and his heairs forever, and whom I likewise appoint my
sole executor of this my last will and testament.
In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal this twelth day of
November, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and fifty
eight - ELIZA GREEN
Signed sealed and acknowledged before us: Charles Irby, Abram Green, John
Irby, Israel Marks.
At a court held for Amelia County, the 24th day of January, 1760, this will
was proved by the oaths of Charles Irby, Abram Green and John Irby,
witnesses thereto, and sworn to by MARSTON GREEN, the executor herein named,
and certificate was granted him for obtaining a probate in due form.
Test. T GRIFFIN PEACHY, County Clerk.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"lma...@att.net" wrote in message
news:0dbd3690-7126-4bbb...@googlegroups.com...
Her will was probated in Amelia County Jan 24, 1760.
1760
WILL of ELIZABETH GREEN (nee MARSTON).
Dated 12 Nov 1758 Proved 24 Jan 1760
In the name of God, Amen. I, ELIZABETH GREEN, of Nottoway Parish, Amelia
County, being very sick and weak in body, but of sound and disposing mind
and memory, yet considering the uncertainty of this mortal life, think it
necessary to make and ordain this my last will and testament, which is as
followeth:
I give and bequeath to my well-beloved son, MARSTON GREEN, the land and
plantation whereon I now live, containing one hundred and fifty acres, be
the same more or less, lying and being in Amelia County and joining the
lines of Charles Irby, Richard Jones, William Fitzgerald and William Hudson;
also two negroes, Cyrus and Bridget, to him and his heirs forever.
Item. I give and bequeath to my well-beloved daughter, REBEKAH JONES the
feather bed and furniture whereon I now lye, and all my wearing apparel,
both lining and wooling, and one dozen of the newest Pewter Plates, to her
and her heirs forever.
Item. I give and bequeath to my grandson, THOMAS COWLES, son of THOMAS
COWLES, twenty shillings to buy him a gold mourning ring, to him and his
heirs forever.
Item. I give to my grand daughter, ELIZABETH GREEN, daughter of THOMAS
GREEN, twenty shillings, to buy her a gold mourning ring, to her and her
heirs forever.
Item. I give and bequeath to my loving daughter, LUCY CLAY, twenty
shillings, to buy her a gold mourning ring.
Item. I give and bequeath to my loving daughter, MARTHA CLAY, twenty
shillings, to buy her a gold ring.
Item. I give and bequeath to my loving daughter, ELIZABETH CHEATEM, twenty
shillings to buy her a gold ring.
Item. I give and bequeath to my loving son, MARSTON GREEN, after my debts
and the above legacies are paid, all the remainder of my estate, both real
and personal, to him and his heairs forever, and whom I likewise appoint my
sole executor of this my last will and testament.
In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal this twelth day of
November, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and fifty
eight - ELIZA GREEN
Signed sealed and acknowledged before us: Charles Irby, Abram Green, John
Irby, Israel Marks.
At a court held for Amelia County, the 24th day of January, 1760, this will
was proved by the oaths of Charles Irby, Abram Green and John Irby,
witnesses thereto, and sworn to by MARSTON GREEN, the executor herein named,
and certificate was granted him for obtaining a probate in due form.
Test. T GRIFFIN PEACHY, County Clerk.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"lma...@att.net" wrote in message
news:0dbd3690-7126-4bbb...@googlegroups.com...
loria...@glassactproductions.com
Aug 3, 2018, 4:07:36 PM8/3/18
to
loria...@glassactproductions.com
Aug 3, 2018, 4:16:07 PM8/3/18
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65284wi...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2019, 7:05:47 PM1/28/19
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65284wi...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2019, 7:15:58 PM1/28/19
to
Nathan. I am seeking source documentation for Henry Filmer Green. He is my direct ggggg grandfather. I have copies of the will 1749 in Lunenburg Co Virginia. But I have seen NO SOURCE DOCUMENT that shows the name Henry Filmer Green. There are a lot of trees that list his name as Henry Filmer Green, but no one has provided a source document for that name. I use the name Henry Green because that is all I have seen. If you have EVER seen source document for Henry Filmer Green, please share it with me. I am trying to make the connection. In the Lunenburg County will book there is a Griffin will that refers to Henry Green son of John Green. This is the Elizabeth Griffin fathers will. thanks again. Dave Green da...@greensfurniture.biz
65284wi...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2019, 7:21:22 PM1/28/19
to
On Monday, January 28, 2019 at 5:15:58 PM UTC-7, 65284wi...@gmail.com wrote:
> Nathan. I am seeking source documentation for Henry Filmer Green. He is my direct ggggg grandfather. I have copies of the will 1749 in Lunenburg Co Virginia. But I have seen NO SOURCE DOCUMENT that shows the name Henry Filmer Green. There are a lot of trees that list his name as Henry Filmer Green, but no one has provided a source document for that name. I use the name Henry Green because that is all I have seen. If you have EVER seen source document for Henry Filmer Green, please share it with me. I am trying to make the connection. In the Lunenburg County will book there is a Griffin will that refers to Henry Green son of John Green. This is the Elizabeth Griffin fathers will. thanks again. Dave Green I also see that there is a John Green son of Thomas Green. Is there any SOURCE DOCUMENTATION FOR THIS.?? tnx Dave
> Nathan. I am seeking source documentation for Henry Filmer Green. He is my direct ggggg grandfather. I have copies of the will 1749 in Lunenburg Co Virginia. But I have seen NO SOURCE DOCUMENT that shows the name Henry Filmer Green. There are a lot of trees that list his name as Henry Filmer Green, but no one has provided a source document for that name. I use the name Henry Green because that is all I have seen. If you have EVER seen source document for Henry Filmer Green, please share it with me. I am trying to make the connection. In the Lunenburg County will book there is a Griffin will that refers to Henry Green son of John Green. This is the Elizabeth Griffin fathers will. thanks again. Dave Green I also see that there is a John Green son of Thomas Green. Is there any SOURCE DOCUMENTATION FOR THIS.?? tnx Dave
pcjm...@gmail.com
Jun 3, 2020, 7:00:04 PM6/3/20
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