Dukes of Counts von Teck?

[Alexander Polenov]

Hello,

Reading a lists of german dukes I didn't find Dukes von Teck. And you've
mentioned later that this title in medieval Germany have only indepentend
princes. But tracing genealogy of Zaringens I found Adalbert I(d. 1195) the
son of Conrad von Zaringen, who was Duke von Teck and who was grandson of
Berthold II von Baden(d. 1111) - duke von Zaringen and von Swabia. I've read
that in XII century only Austria (1156) and Styria (1180) were created a
duchies. So, when von Teck was created a duchy?

--
regards,
Alex.

[Kevan L. Barton]

Folks,

I'm trying to run down the Constable family of one John Constable of
Kinalton who married Jane Sothill, da. and coh. of
Henry Sothill by Jane, da. of Richard Empson.

This marriage is supported by Thoroton (Antiquities of Nottinghamshire, p.
154)which states "Elizabeth, the daughter and co-heir of Henry Sothill, was
Wife of Sir William Drury, of the county of Suffolk, Knight, and Joan, or
Jane, his other Daughter, of Sir John Constable, of Kinalton, Knight, who
bought Harteswell Grange in this Lordship, formerly belonging to Swinsbeved
Abby, which Harold Rossell of cotgrave, k. May 4, 31 H. 8 had license to
alienate to the said sir John, and Joan his Wife, who had Issue Cicely,
first the wife of William Bevercotes, and afterwards of ...Oglethorpe; and
Anne the wife of Sir Anthony Thorold, by whom she had Winifred her Daughter
and Heir, the Mother of Sir Gervase Clifton,....."

The marriage is also attested in the 1563/64 visitation of Yorkshire (HS
XVI:290), under the entries for Sowtell and Sowthyll.

Faris provides information on Janes parents (Henry Sothill, will proved 16
May 1506, and Joan Empson, living 12 may 1509/10) and sister (Elizabeth
Sothill, b. 1505/d. 19 May 1575, married William Drury, d. 11 Jan 1557/8) on
page 337 under Sothill.

Alas, I've no information on Jane's husband's side at all. Whence cometh
Sir John Constable of Kinalton? Any takers?

Cheers,
Kevan

[Sutliff]

Kevan,

Glad to see this post. I actually have the pages of Constable from the
Visit of Yorks. P. 65 shows this John to be a son of Sir Marmaduke
Constable (d. 1518) of Flamborough and his wife Joyce Stafford. I
believe Joyce may be the daughter of Humphrey Stafford and Eleanor
Aylesbury.

John Lyster (d. bef 17 Jun 1545) of Wakefield, Yorks was married to
Elizabeth Beaumont of Whitley, Yorks. I think it is the Visit. Of Yorks
which gives her parents as John Beaumont and Alice Sotehill. I had not
connected Sotehill with Sowtell until I say your post. By any chance is
Alice listed among this group?

Best regards,

Hap

[Rosie Bevan]

Sir John could be the fourth son of Sir Marmaduke Constable of Flamburgh and
Joyce Stafford.
Burke's Commoners v.1 p328 has him listed as of Knowlton, but this is likely
to be an error.

Cheers

Rosie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevan L. Barton" <kevan...@earthlink.net>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 1:01 PM
Subject: Sothill marries Constable, but which one?

[Kevan L. Barton]

Folks,

Wow, what a fast turn around on my question! Thank you all very much. All
feedback support John Constable as the fourth son of Sir Marmaduke Constable
by Joyce da. of Humphrey Stafford. I even have the Yorkshire visitation and
missed the entry umpteen times until Hap pointed it out. Thank you all
again.

Cheers,
kevan

[Kevan L. Barton]

Hap,

Your Alice Sotell can be found on page 291 of the Visitation of Yorkshire
under Sotell. The narration of the pedigree (with spellings) is thusly:

Ales Sotell wyf to ....Beamond of Myrfeld had issue Thomas Beamond. Ales is
the da. of John Sotell of Sotell Hall by Ales doughter to Robert Nevell of
Leversege.

Pages 290 and 291 give three variations of the same family. Sowtell,
Sowthyll, and your Sotell. The Sowtell and Sowthyll are certainly the same.
Your Sotell, however, does not immediately connect up, but it certainly
does. John Sowtell(the same, but incorrectly named Henry Sowthyll) of
Stokerson in Leicestershire ("in Harthfordshire" was erased)is a "2 brother
owt of the howse of Sotell Hall."

Not sure if this answers your mail.

Cheers,
Kevan

[Sutliff]

Kevan,

Thanks so much for this information. What this tells me is that I need
to borrow the Visitation of Yorkshire again. I had borrowed it a long
time ago to look up some now abandoned ancestors (from an amputated
line). I do have the Neville pages including Neville of Leversege. If
accurate this line has yet another Molyneux descent for me, plus
Leversege, Harington, Sherwood and Gascoigne. However, it is clear that
the descent is uncertain whether by Scargill or Molyneux. I also see I
have nothing of Beaumont of Myrfield or Whitley. So lots to research.
Good. Should keep me out of trouble.

Thanks again for the help,

Hap

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevan L. Barton [mailto:kevan...@earthlink.net]

[A Tsar Is Born]

"Alexander Polenov" <nob...@narod.ru> wrote in message
news:000001c0f774$0088b480$84e8dcc2@alex...

Actually, not until the 19th century, for the morganatic son of a prince of
Wurtemberg who married a Transylvanian countess. That son married an English
princess and had three sons and a daughter, who married the King of England.
Her brothers and nephews renounced their German name and titles during World
War I.

The earlier "dukedom of Teck" was in fact a county possessed by sons of the
Dukes of Zahringen. Their claim to be Dukes was an accident -- Berchtold I
claimed Swabia, was not allowed to keep it, but refused to give up the title
of "Duke" that went with it, and his descendants in the male line, wherever
they ruled, continued to use it for a hundred years until they died out.
Some of them ruled Teck, so were, say, "Duke Berchtold (who happens to be
the ruler) of Teck."

They were never created Dukes of Zahringen, but that's how everyone referred
to them. There didn't seem any point in going to war over it, and they
wouldn't be polite to you if you called them "Margraves" instead.

The first Dukes "created" (legally) within the Holy Roman Empire were those
of Austria and Styria, followed (the following century) by the Dukes of
Brunswick and Luneburg.

Jean Coeur de Lapin
atsar...@hotmail.com

[A Tsar Is Born]

I wrote in message news:3b2ea...@news.starnetinc.com...

>>So, when von Teck was created a duchy?
>
> Actually, not until the 19th century, for the morganatic son of a prince
of
> Wurtemberg who married a Transylvanian countess. That son married an
English
> princess and had three sons and a daughter, who married the King of
England.

This is not correct. Only the daughter married the King of England. The sons
did not.

Jean Coeur de Lapin