Complete Peerage XIV [correction]
Richard Borthwick
I have come accross two puzzles in the new volume of CP.
(1) On XIV:98 there is an amending addition to II:218. By June 1414 William
Bonville had married Margaret dau. of Reynald de Grey 'by his second wife
Joan.' This would seem to be incorrect. Reynald married his second wife,
Joan Astley, 1414/15. Margaret de Grey would have to be dau. by Reynald's
first wife Margaret de Ros (whom he married in 1378).
(2) On XIV:535 there is a correction to X:663. Robert** de Poynings (d.1387)
married Isabel (d.1394) dau. of Robert FitzPayn (formerly de Grey) by
'Elizabeth, da. of Sir Guy de Bryan ... and, in her issue coh. of her bro.
Sir Guy (de Bryan) Lord Bryan.' The correction noted in XIV:535 is to
replace the bit in quotes with 'Isobel, da. of Sir John de Clifford.' No
authority is cited for this change and there is no corresponding correction
under 'FitzPayn' in XIV:325-326.
[** 'Richard' not 'Robert']
Isabel FitzPayn's father Sir Robert (b.about 1321 d.1387) was a younger son
of Sir Richard de Grey, of Codnor by Joan dau. Sir Robert (FitzPayn) Lord
FitzPayn (d.1315) by Isabel (d. in or after 1319) sister and coheir of Sir
Richard de Clifford and dau. of Sir John de Clifford, both of
Frampton-on-Severn. [CP V:449-451, 463]
This looks like a doublet. Two Sir Robert FitzPayns each marrying an Isabel
who in turn were each a daughter of a Sir John de Clifford.
Reedpcgen
was aged 26 or 27 at his father's death (CIPM), died shortly before 10 March
1335 (the writ for the inquisition, CFR, & CIMP Edw. II), that he married Joan
fitz Payn, born about 1286, died after 18 October 1335 (CCR 18 Oct. 1335). Her
dower was reserved when her son, John, recieved livery of his father's lands 26
March 1335 [CFR]. I have that Joan was daugher of Robert, Lord Fitz Payne, by
Isobel de Clifford. In another place I had blindly follwed CP in stating the
mother to be daughter of Guy, Lord Bryan.
It would be a pain if CP has made so blatant an error, so I'll try to check
some things.
pcr
Richard Borthwick
unlikely to be correct largely because CP XIV:118 under 'Bryan' (ref. CP
II:361) gives Sir Guy de Bryan KG's first wife as Joan said to be the
daughter of Sir John Carreu and deletes the reference to Alice de Holway.
And the amendment to note (d) deletes all detail and replaces it with 'Cal.
Papal Letters, vol.3, p.272; Collect. Topog, et Geneal., vol.3, pp.250-5.
See also vol.5, p.463 sub FITZPAYN.' The new note (d) cites the evidence for
the marriage of Guy to Joan. No correction is noted in XIV relating to the
marriage of Richard de Poynings in V:463 (as I mentioned in my earlier
post). The message (apart from the doublet peculiarity) seems to be a
confirmation of the genealogy of Isabel FitzPayn given in X:663. I look
forward to hearing what you come up with.
Richard