Richard de Dover
Michelle.Mu...@ccmail.team400.ie
> ref #:
>?26-27
>Ed Mann
Is this a correct birth date for Richard FitzRoy, or is it even in the right
area, timewise? I thought that Richard FitzRoy was born well prior to John's
marriage to Isabella (one of the youngest of his numerous illegitimate children,
another of whom was Joanna who married LLywelyn of Wales). Do any dates on
which he was mentioned as an adult, or possible dates for Agatha de Ferrers
being his mother, tally with 1210 being an approximate birthdate?
thanks,
Michelle
ED MANN
Both Weis shows a death date of 1264/5; Weir 1242/53. No source on the
birth date.
--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@mail2.lcia.com
References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
Suzanne Doig
wrote:
>>1 Sir Richard FitzRoy aka: Richard FitzJohn b: Abt. 1210
>> ref #:
>>?26-27
>Is this a correct birth date for Richard FitzRoy, or is it even in the right
>area, timewise? I thought that Richard FitzRoy was born well prior to John's
>marriage to Isabella (one of the youngest of his numerous illegitimate children,
The only clue I have to Richard's age is the statement (from
Given-Wilson & Curteis?) that he was a captain in his father’s army
during the baronial revolt of the 1210s. This would seem to confirm
that he was certainly born well before 1210, and was probably one of
John's elder children.
Suzanne
* - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -
Suzanne Doig - remove obvious from reply-to address
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/4038/index.html
Tigers14
Geoffrey of Anjou's illegitimate son Hamelin.
Agatha de Ferrers is supposed to be Joanna's mother.
Rania
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> No Richard de Dover's mother was John's cousin Alina who was the daughter of
> Geoffrey of Anjou's illegitimate son Hamelin.
Do you have any specific reference or source for this information, or is
it just speculation.
> Agatha de Ferrers is supposed to be Joanna's mother.
Joan's mother was 'Queen Clementia'. Who that was in reality has proved
difficult to determine, but I wouldn't put Agatha high on the list.
taf
Rania R Melhem
website
out of Hull University.
Rania
Geaux Tigers
LSU '89
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> I have seen it several places including a massive European royal genealogy
> website out of Hull University.
OK. Did THEY have any source for it (that Richard of Dover was daughter
of Alina of Warenne), or was it just speculation.
taf
Tigers14
I seem to remember their quoting Burke's Peearage, but I am not positive. I
just checked, he does quote Burke's Peerage .
He says that the mother was a sister of William de Warrenne, but that her name
was unknown.
Rania
Todd A. Farmerie
It is known that John had a sister of William as mistress, but that she
was mother of Richard is, as far as I am aware, simply a guess.
taf
J.C.B.Sharp
Annales Cestrienses, p 46:
mcc W. de Waren meunch fil Regis occiditur.
A footnote quotes Robert of Gloucester p 561:
Sir Richard fiz le Roi of wan we speke bivore
Gentil man was inou the he were bast ibore
Wor the erles douzter of Warenne is gode mother was
His fader the king Jon.
There is quite a choice for the earl, but who was W. who died in
1200 and what does meunch mean?
.
J.C.B.Sharp
London
jc...@obtfc.win-uk.net
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> Annales Cestrienses, p 46:
>
> mcc W. de Waren meunch fil Regis occiditur.
>
> A footnote quotes Robert of Gloucester p 561:
>
> Sir Richard fiz le Roi of wan we speke bivore
> Gentil man was inou the he were bast ibore
> Wor the erles douzter of Warenne is gode mother was
> His fader the king Jon.
>
> There is quite a choice for the earl, but who was W. who died in
> 1200 and what does meunch mean?
I took a quick look and couldn't find any W. de Warenne who would have
died in 1200. Perhaps this is a William of the Whitchurch or Wormsgay
Warennes.
taf