Dyfed royal line
Luke Stevens
recent dicussion on Tasciovanus and a hypothetical heiress, it seems
appropriate now to post what I think is a better founded theory on an
early Welsh heiress, this time Dyfed. Those who cringe at the sight of
wool-gathering, as DSH affectionately calls it, may push Delete now.
Lately I've been reading up a little on the literature on the earliest
part of the pedigree of the kings of Dyfed, and was surprised to find
that one item that seemed fairly obvious to me has never, as far as I
could find, been suggested. So, even at the risk of possibly repeating
what is already well known to others, I shall discuss it in depth here.
The line up to Tryffyn was given in Stewart Baldwin's "Llywelyn AT".
There are four relevant independent genealogical tracts on this, all in
Bartrum's EWGT: De, HG 2, JC 13, and ABT 18. The usual interpretation
has been that all essentially agree back to Tryffyn, after which there
is divergence and much textual corruption, and that De preserves the
correct male line ascent into the mythical Déisi origins, while the
others mean to describe some sort of descent from Macsen Wledig, thus
substituting for the Irish origin of the line a more desirable and
illustrious British one.
De: "Trestin m. Aeda Brosc m. Corath m. Echach Allmuir m. Arttchuirp"
HG: "Triphun map Clotri map Gloitguin map Nimet map Dimet map Maxim
gulecic map Protec map Protector map Ebiud map Eliud map Stater map
Pincr misser map Constans map Constantini magni..."
JC: "Tryphun m. Ewein vreisc m. Cyndwr bendigeit m. Ewein m. Kyngar m.
Prwtech m. Ewein m. Miser m. Custennin m. Maxen wledic m. Maximianus m.
Constantinus mawr m. Custenint o Elen."
ABT: "[a]...Tryffyn ap Ewein vreisg ap Kyndeyrn vendigeit ap Ewein ap
Kyngar ap Ewein ap Gwledyr ferch Gletwin ap Nyfedd ap Dyved ab Ebynt ap
Elynt ap Amloyd ap Amweryd ap Kustennin ap Maxen wledig. [b]...Tryffyn
varvoc ap Ywain vraisc ap Kyndeyrn vendigaid."
Bartrum suggested on the basis of ABT that Gwledyr was wife of Aergul
Lawhir, the son of Tryffyn through whom the line is traced. Kelley adds
the reading of Harleian MS 4181, which matches JC except in omitting
"Kyngar m. Prwtech m. Ewein", and suggests that this may be correct, but
it is odd that he did not mention ABT at all. This was unfortunate,
since, though closely related to JC, it is clearly not derived from it
and appears to preserve crucial additional data.
What I suggest is that "Gwledyr ferch Gletwin" of ABT is identical with
"Clotri map Gloitguin" of HG. With this interpretation, the Welsh texts
are all giving the distaff ancestry of Tryffyn, perhaps through what was
later reckoned as a sort of heiress to the pre-Déisi kings claiming
descent from Macsen; this is given correctly (up to Macsen) in HG with
"merc" miscopied as "map" and more corruptly in the later sources, which
add some additional information, probably on the paternal ancestry.
That the name rendered "Clotri" in HG could be the same as "Gwledyr" in
ABT is supported by comparing the name of the later king "Cloten" in HG
rendered "Gwlyddien" in ABT. As to the very easy scribal error of "map"
for "merc", it is worth pointing out that HG 2 is unique among the HG
lines in branching through the distaff twice already, so that doing so a
third time, with an eye toward Macsen rather than an Irish origin, would
hardly be unthinkable. The chronology is also agreeable, with Vortipor
(6th cent.) seven generations later than Macsen (d.388): Vortipor son of
Aergul ap Tryffyn ap Gwledyr ferch Glydwyn ap Nyfed ap Dyfed ap Macsen
Wledig. Following Bartrum's WCD, the end should perhaps read: Clydwyn
ab Ednyfed ab Annun Dyfed ap Macsen Wledig.
As I have stated on previous occasions, it seems to me that there is a
common GaC-JC-ABT source, written by the 12th century, that contained a
genealogical collection quite independent of HG. The Dyfed pedigree was
probably included, with "Ewein vreisc" and such. But ABT has two
interpolations in the section of interest, "Ebynt ap Elynt" and "Amloyd
ap Amweryd". The latter is found only in the HG pedigree of Cunedda (and
in saints' lives repeating the same) and the former is found only in HG
2, as "Ebiud map Eliud". So they probably originated as late (after the
old orthography was forgotten) marginal notes added in light of an HG
text, but were misplaced and inserted in the Dyfed pedigree here.
Even if all this is accepted, it still leaves other questions
unresolved, such as what to make of the male line ancestry of "Ewein
vreisc" (Bartrum suggests that it is a list of three sons of Ewein, with
patronymics), or how Constantine the Great and Constantine son of Macsen
are supposed to be involved. But these are discussions for another time.
Peter C. Bartrum, _Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts_, 1966.
Peter C. Bartrum, _Welsh Classical Dictionary_, 1993.
Tomás Ó Cathasaigh, "The Déisi and Dyfed", _Éigse_ 20:1-33.
David Kelley, "Studies in Early Celtic Genealogies: Dyfed",
_The Augustan_ Omnibus 8:100-106 (English Genealogist 20:36-42).
Charles Thomas, _And shall these mute stones speak?: post-Roman
inscriptions in western Britain_, 1994.
Luke Stevens
Stewart Baldwin
>Luke Stevens
The suggestion that Gwledyr and Clotri were the same was also made by
Molly Miller in her paper "Date-Guessing and Dyfed", in "Studia
Celtica" 12/13 (1977/8), 33-61. As she points out, one possibility is
that the version giving Clotri/Gwledyr as a female is not the original
reading, but was an emendation of a later author who desired to
reconcile the conflicting Dyfed pedigrees. Having mentioned this
possibility (which might be wrong, but can't be ruled out either), she
then remarked that "it seems permissible to believe that" the reading
of "ferch" ("daughter") was the original reading, and proceeded to
examine where that hypothesis lead. The "Ewein vreisc" who appears in
some of the Welsh versions was then explained as "Eochaid brosc" from
the Irish version, where a couple of generations had dropped out of
the genealogy due to careless copying, and the epithet of Aed Brosc
had been applied to Eochaid. Strictly speaking, Eochaid and Ewein are
not the same name, but both were Latinized as "Eugenius" in the later
Middle Ages, so the idea that Eochaid brosc could be translated as
Ewein vreisc is reasonable (Irish brosc = Welsh vreisc = "the stout").
She saw Clydwyn as a local leader who temporarily conquered the Déisi
of Dyfed, and then had a marriage alliance with them. Her Table III,
on p. 42, is labelled "The Déisi of Dyfed: the probable orthodox
historiography", and the top part of her table, down to Agricola of
Dyfed, is as follows:
Eochaid allmuir:
settlement of the Déisi
|
Corath Clydwyn: conquest of the Déisi
| |
Aed the Stout married Gwledyr
raids into
Ceredigion?
|_____________________
| |
Tryffin Cyngar Protector
|
Agricola
etc.
[Note: another table on p. 39 shows St. Clydog and St. Dedyw as sons
of Clydwyn and brothers of Gwledyr, and a certain Cyndwr/Cyndeyrn the
blessed as another son of Aed the Stout.]
Note that Miller's use of the words "the probable orthodox
historiography" for the table indicate that she is not necessarily
claiming that the table represents accurate history, but that it may
represent a rescension of the tradition which is earlier than what
survives in present manuscripts. Even if it represents an earlier
tradition, it could still have been composed hundreds of years after
the fact. My own opinion is that the table is plausible enough, but
that the evidence is too weak to regard it as proven, and that is why
I stopped my own ancestor table at Agricola, because the evidence for
Agricola and Vortipor is of distinctly higher quality.
As for the alleged generations from Clydwyn back to Maxen Wledic, I
think that those can be safely discarded as late inventions. Maxen
Wledic was a popular ancestor for the genealogy fakers, and every one
of the alleged lines going back to him has supicious characteristics.
In this case, the suspicion is made even stronger by the appearance of
the name "Dimet" (i.e., "Dyfed") as a name in the link, along with the
equally suspicious "Nimet" ("Nyfed"), which just looks like mechanical
invention.
Stewart Baldwin
jdch...@gmail.com
Do you have any information on the name Dimet (or Dymet)? Celt, Welsh, Roman, other? Trying to source that name.
Thank you,
James Dimmitt
Chico California USA
Jdch...@gmail.com
