Lacy-Clare
Reedpcgen
found that not only did John de Lacy's (d. 1211) daughter Maud marry Richard de
Clare, Earl of Hertford and Gloucester (b. 1222, d. 1262), John de Lacy was a
direct descendant of Gilbert fitz Richard de Clare (d. 1114-17).
John fitz Richard fitz Eustace, constable of Chester (d. 1190), married Alice
de Essex, daughter of Alice de Vere by her first husband Robert de Essex.
Alice, aged 60 in 1184/5, was daughter of Aubrey de Vere, Great Chamberlain in
1133 (d. 1141), by his wife Alice de Clare, daughter of Gilbert fitz Richard de
Clare. Alice de Vere's brother was Aubrey de Vere, 1st Earl of Oxford.
This John fitz Richard fitz Eustace adopted the surname Lacy after receiving
the inheritance of his mother, Aubrey de Lisours. John was father of Roger de
Lacy (d. 1211), the constable of Chester who married Maud, sister of the
treasurer of York.
1. Gilbert fitz Richard de Clare, lord of the Honour of Clare, and of
Tonbridge, d. 1114/1117, m. Adeliz de Clermont, daughter of Hugh, Count of
Clermont in Beauvaisis, by Marguerite, daughter of Hilduin de Montdidier and
Roucy. [CP 3:242-3]
2. Alice de Clare, d. ca. 1163, m. Aubrey de Vere, Great Chamberlain, d. 1141.
3. Alice de Vere, aged 60 in 1184/5, m. (1) Robert de Essex' m. (2) Roger fitz
Richard of Warkworth.
4. Alice de Essex, m. John fitz Richard fitz Eustace, constable of Chester, d.
1190.
5. Roger de Lacy, of Pontefract, Yorks., and Halton, Cheshire, constable of
Chester, d. 1211, m. Maud, called de Clere/Clare, sister of the treasurer of
York.
The clerics at Kirkstall got the relationship wrong, describing Alice de Essex
as Alice de Vere (her mother's name), and as sister of William de Mandeville
[duxit in uxorem Aliciam de Ver sororem Willelmi de Maindeuile].
It would be tempting to want to make Alice daughter of Geoffrey de Mandeville,
1st Earl of Essex (d. 1144) by his wife Rohese de Vere, daughter of Aubrey de
Vere, Chamberlain of England who married Adelise de Clare [see above], but this
would be in error.
Geoffrey's eldest son Ernulf was excommunicated. The second son, Geoffrey de
Mandeville, succeeded as 2nd Earl of Essex, but died without issue (d. 1166).
William de Mandeville, 3rd Earl of Essex, who succeeded after his elder
brother's death, died without legitimate issue (d. 1189). His heir was found
to be his aunt Beatrice de Mandeville (d. 1197), who had married (2) William de
Say (d. 1144), only sister of the 1st Earl.
The evidence that John "de Lacy" fitz Richard fitz Eustace married Alice de
Essex is found in the _Rotuli de dominabus ... [1185]_ [PRS 35:29-30]:
Alicia de Essex est de donatione Domini Regis, et est .lx. annorum, et est
amita comitis Willelmi, et soror comitis Albrici, et habet ij. filios milites,
et .j. filiam maritatam Johanni constabulario Cestrie.
[p. 30, n. 1] "For her tenure of Aynho under (her nephew) William (de
Mandeville) Earl of Essex, see _Geoffrey de Mandeville_, p. 390, where is given
the reference to his charter granting to her Aynho in free dower over and above
that given her by her husband (dominus) Roger Fitz Richard (of Warkworth)....
Her daughter married John (Fitz Eustace), Constable of Chester, who died on
crusade with Richard I in 1190, leaving a son, Roger de Lacy, Constable of
Chester."
J. Horace Round, in his _Geoffrey de Mandeville: A study of the anarchy_
(London, 1892), made a study of "The Families of Mandeville and de Vere" in
Appendix U [pp. 388-396]. He points out the mess that had been made of the
pedigrees of the two families.
[p. 390] "He further refers also to his sister 'Adeliza de Essexa filia
Alberici de Vere et Adelizae.' Now we have abundant evidence that 'Adeliza de
Essex' was sister to the Countess Rohese, wife of Geoffrey de Mandeville, and
was aunt to their sons, Earls of Essex...."
[p. 391] "But who was Alice 'de Essex'? ... Her first husband was Robert de
Essex [Domino suo primo marito Roberto scilicet de Essexia (Walden Abbey
Chronicle)]; her second was Roger fitz Richard, of Clavering, Essex, and
Warkworth, Northumberland...."
William Farrer and J[ohn] Brownbill were editors of the Victoria County History
of Lancaster, v. 1 (London, 1906). They go into a detailed study of the heirs
of William fitz Nigel, the part of which holds our interest being on pp.
298-305.
[p. 299] "In 1172 John, constable of Chester, founded the Cistercian abbey of
Stanlaw, in Cheshire.... He also founded the hospital of Castle Donnington....
He married Alice, daughter of Robert de [p. 300:] Essex, by Alice his wife,
sister of Aubrey de Vere, earl of Oxford, and died at Tyre in the Holy Land
during a crusade in the year 1190. Roger, his son, having succeeded him as
constable of Chester .... The following year [1194] ... Albreda settled the
whole estate which had been Robert de Lacy's upon her grandson, Roger, the
constable, who thereupon assumed the name of Lacy and became possessed of the
honours of Clitheroe and Pontefract, in addition to his own patrimony of Halton
and Widnes.... [p. 302:] His death occurred on 1 October, 1211, after a
protracted illness, during which he was invested with the monastic habit in the
abbey of Stanlaw, where his remains were buried."
[p. 304] "Maud, the wife of Roger survived her husband, and was living about
1220-1225, having had assigned to her in dower 28 librates if land in
Ingoldmells and Holton le Moor, co. Lincoln, besides the demesne manors which
belonged to the honour of Pontefract."
[p. 304, n. 11] "The statement, which originated in the _Historia Laceiorum_
(_Mon. Angl._ vi. 315), that Roger de Lacy's wife was Maud, sister of [Bevis]
de Clare, treasurer of York, is, of course, a grotesque error, seeing that
Bevis de Clare, alias de Fairfax, was treasurer of York from 1285 to about
1291."
If Farrer had been aware of any such charter that Maud made, he certainly would
have remarked upon it here. And though she may not have been sister of Bevis
de Clare [Farrer interprets the gap to refer to Bevis, but it could still refer
to William 'the treasurer,' whose surname is unknown], she still might have
been sister of a treasurer of York.
I look forward to Doug (when he has time) producing a charter granted by
Maud--as a widow--[apparently] with the consent of her son John the Constable,
in which she is called "de Clare." But if she were styled "de Clare" in such a
document, I would think the most likely interpretation would be that this widow
of the prominent and wealthy Roger de Lacy had simply, for a short period,
married one of the de Clare men, who would also likely have been widowed.
pcr
Suzanne Doig
<snip>
>The evidence that John "de Lacy" fitz Richard fitz Eustace married Alice de
>Essex is found in the _Rotuli de dominabus ... [1185]_ [PRS 35:29-30]:
>Alicia de Essex est de donatione Domini Regis, et est .lx. annorum, et est
>amita comitis Willelmi, et soror comitis Albrici, et habet ij. filios milites,
>et .j. filiam maritatam Johanni constabulario Cestrie.
Do we know the names of these two sons, and their father(s)?
Suzanne
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Suzanne Doig - remove obvious from reply-to address
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Leslie Mahler
>John fitz Richard fitz Eustace, constable of Chester (d. 1190), married
Alice
>de Essex, daughter of Alice de Vere by her first husband Robert de
Essex.
>Alice, aged 60 in 1184/5, was daughter of Aubrey de Vere, Great
Chamberlain in
>1133 (d. 1141), by his wife Alice de Clare, daughter of Gilbert fitz
Richard de
>Clare. Alice de Vere's brother was Aubrey de Vere, 1st Earl of Oxford.
Ive noticed that Weiss AR7 states that John's wife Alice was the
daughter of Alice de Vere by
her second husband, Roger fitz Richard. I believe that the reference
used was the
Complete Peerage. I'll have to check what that says for myself.
Leslie