Joan le Despenser, wife of Sir James Roos of Gedney (d. ca. 1402)
John P. Ravilious
Hello All,
John Watson had brought to our attention that
online access was available to Gibbons' Early
Lincoln Wills. One particular will that only now
caught my attention is that of Sir Philip le
Despenser of Goxhill (d. 1401), dated 1 August
1401, which provides (in part) the following
details:
" - To be buried in the Church of St. Marcial
de Newhous, between my mother and my wife
Elizabeth
- My sons Philip, John and Robert.
....
- To my sister Lady de Lutterell
...
- Executors: my son James Roos, John de
la Laund, Henry Cusas vicar of Gouxhill,
and John Burdet and Ralph de Gouxhill my
chaplains.
- Supervisor: my son John le Despenser. "[1]
The reference to James Roos as 'my son' is
rather striking. This would appear to be James,
younger son (and eventual heir) of Sir James de
Roos of Gedney (d. 1362) and his wife Maud de
Bernake. There are two reasonable explanations
for James Roos the younger being styled son by
Sir Philip le Despenser: either James' mother had
married Sir Philip (i.e. Philip was his step-
father), or James' wife Joan, surname unknown,
was a daughter of Sir Philip [2].
Given the facts as known concerning Maud de
Bernake, especially as to her marriage to Sir
James de Ros (d. 30 Sept 1362) in 1323 or before,
she would not be a good candidate as the mother
of one or more of the issue of Philip le
Despenser. It therefore appears that Joan, wife
of James de Roos, was in fact a daughter of Sir
Philip le Despenser and his wife Elizabeth
(surname unknown), and the namesake of her
paternal grandmother, Joan de Cobham:
Sir Philip le = Joan de Cobham
Despenser I
(d. 1349) I
I
Sir Philip le = Elizabeth
Despenser I
(d. 1401) I
_____________________I__
I I I I
Sir Philip John Robert Joan = Sir James
Despenser I Roos
(d. 1424) I (d. ca.
I 1402)
I
Sir Robert Roos
of Gedney
This would then add another link in the
ancestry of Prince William, the (Paulet) Marquess
of Winchester and Dukes of Bolton, the (Cromwell)
Earls of Ardglass, and of emigrants Thomas Booth,
William Goddard and Thomas Wingfield, among many
others.
Cheers,
John
NOTES
[1] Alfred Gibbons, Early Lincoln Wills, p. 99.
[2] Joan's parentage has not been noted to date,
according to both Doug Richardson, Magna
Carta Ancestry (p. 367) and Leo van de Pas'
website, Genealogics, found at
Douglas Richardson
Your identification of Joan, wife of James de Roos, Knt., of Gedney,
Lincolnshire, as the daughter of Philip le Despenser, Knt.. (died
1401), Lord Despenser, is, of course, correct. We can be certain of
this, as this identification actually solves another problem in the
ancestry of the baronial Sutton family who were the Lords Dudley.
It has been known for some time that Eleanor Roos, grandaughter of
this same James and Joan de Roos, had a dispensation in 1448 to marry
Humphrey Dudley, a younger son of John Sutton, 1st Lord Dudley, and
his wife, Elizabeth Berkeley. The record of the dispensation of
Humphrey Dudley and Eleanor Roos may be found at the following
weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=3xYpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA330&dq=Humphrey+Dudley+Roos&lr=
The dispensation states that Humphrey Dudley and Eleanor Roos were
related in the 3rd and 4th degrees [of kindred]. As such, we should
be looking for something in their ancestry, which makes the
grandparent of one of these parties the sibling of the great-
grandparent of the other party.
Many years ago, a good article on the Sutton/Dudley family entitled
"Barons of Dudley" by H. Sydney Grazebrook was published in 1888 in
Collections for a History of Staffordshire, volume 9, Part 2, pages 1–
152. Mr. Grazebrook discussed the identity of Humphrey Dudley's
great-grandmother, who was the wife of John Sutton, born 1362, died
1396. Mr. Grazebrook stated the following:
"John de Sutton IV., the only known issue of John III., was, we learn
from Dugdale (who cites Glover's Collections), under age at his
father's death, and "his wardship and marriage being granted to
Richard Earl of Arundel, was sold in 5 R. II, 1381-2, for 350 marks to
Philip le Dispenser, Lord of Carlington." Dugdale does not give the
name of his wife - indeed he confounds him with his son of the same
name - but he is generally stated to have married Alice le Dispenser,
the daughter of his guardian, though, as will presently appear, the
wife who survived him was named Joan." [Note: Carlington should be
Parlington].
Grazebrook's comments may be viewed at the following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Am44AAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA60&dq=Sutton+Alice+Despenser#PRA1-PA60,M1
In a footnote, Grazebrook expanded further on the alleged Sutton-
Despenser marriage. He states:
"According to Adlard, Alice le Dispenser was his first wife, and Joan
the second, and he states that Alice died in 16 R. II., 1392. From
what source he acquired this information does not appear, for he
carefully abstrains from citing authorities; but if it be a fact that
Alice, wife of a John de Sutton, Baron of Dudley died in the year
named, he must needs be correct. Blore (Rutland) and Baker
(Northamptonshire) say that John IV. first married one Joan (who was
the mother of his heir), and secondly Margaret daughter of Roger
Mortimer of Wigmore. And they assign Alice le Dispenser to his son
for a first wife, and Constance Blount for a second."
Assuming that Adlard had his facts correctly stated, then the 3rd and
4th degree of kinship between Humphrey Dudley and Eleanor Roos would
run as follows:
1. Philip le Despenser, Knt., Lord Despenser, died 1401.
2. Alice le Despenser, died 1392, married John de Sutton, Knt.
3. John de Sutton, Knt., of Dudley (in Sedgley), Staffordshire,
married Constance Blount.
4. John Sutton (or Dudley), K.G., 1st Lord Dudley, married Elizabeth
Berkeley.
5. Humphrey Dudley, married Eleanor Roos.
1. Philip le Despenser, Knt., Lord Despenser, died 1401.
2. Joan le Despenser, married James de Roos, Knt., of Gedney,
Lincolnshire.
3. Robert Roos, Knt., of Gedney, Lincolnshire, married Joan Skelton.
4. Eleanor Roos, married Humphrey Dudley.
It should be noted that Grazebrook, pg. 64, incorrectly placed
Humphrey Dudley, husband of Eleanor Roos, one generation back in the
Sutton family tree. See the following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Am44AAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA60&dq=Sutton+Alice+Despenser#PRA1-PA64,M1
There can be no doubt, however, that Humphrey Dudley was the son of
John Sutton, 1st Lord Dudley, as he is directly styled "son of John
lord Dudley" in the dispensation cited above dated 1448. This means
that Humphrey Dudley's father was John Sutton (or Dudley), K.G., 1st
Lord Dudley, who was first summoned to Parliament in 1440.
For interest's sake, I've listed below the names of the 17th Century
New World colonial immigrants that descend from Alice le Despenser,
first wife of John de Sutton, Knt.:
Robert Abell, Dannett Abney, William Crymes, Agnes Mackworth,
Elizabeth Marshall, Richard More, Thomas Rudyard, John & Lawrence
Washington, Mary Wolseley
Also, the following is the list of 17th Century New World colonial
immigrants that descend from Joan le Despenser, wife of James de Roos,
Knt., of Gedney, Lincolnshire:
William Goddard, Thomas Wingfield
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah