Christian Lindsay, wife of Sir William Douglas, et al.
John P. Ravilious
Monday, 19 October, 2009
Dear Jared, Will, 'M', et al.,
In January of this year there was a thread following on the
subject of the oft-discussed Christian Douglas, or 'Dame Crystyane of
Douglas'. All evidence noted to date points to Christian as being a
daughter of Alexander Lindsay, 2nd Earl of Crawford, and the actual
wife of Sir William Douglas of Lugton - and not Elizabeth Lindsay, as
per Scots Peerage [1]. However, no direct evidence concerning the
identification of Christian as Sir William's wife was previously
noted.
Thanks to the National Archives of Scotland, this evidence is now
available. We know that Sir William Douglas held Railston, which he
received through the resignation of his maternal uncle Sir Walter
Stewart [2]. We can now state that he in fact married Christian, with
whom he held Railston in conjunct fee. She resigned the lands,
following which there was a crown charter of same to Sir James Douglas
(then of Railston). The following extract provides the pertinent
details, including the attachment of the seals of "Christiana, relict
of Sir James de Achinlek, John de Wemys of that ilk, her son" and
others.
" Reference GD150/96
Title Notarial transcript, dated 17 November 1458, at
instance of Sir Henry de Douglas of Louchlevyn, of crown charter to
James de Douglas, son of deceased Sir William de Douglas of
Louchlevyn, of the lands of Ralstone, in the barony of Cunyngham and
sheriffdom of Are, which pertained to Christiana de Douglas in
conjunct-fee and were resigned by her. Under privy seal, at Edinburgh.
Witnesses: John, bishop of Glasgow, chancellor, Sir John Forstare of
Corstarfyne, king's chamberlain, Sir Walter de Ogilvy, master of the
household, Mr. William de Foulis, provost of the collegiate church of
Bothwile, keeper of the privy seal, and Mr. Thomas de Mirtoun, dean of
Glasgow. Transumpt done at Edinburgh in the tenement of John de
Butlare, and in the dwelling-house of Robert de Dee. The seals of
Christiana, relict of Sir James de Achinlek, John de Wemys of that
ilk, her son, and William de Achinlek of Bellisbank were appended
Dates 31 Dec 1430
Access status Open
Description Witnesses: James Malwile, Alexander Malwill, William
Scralling, David Galichly, Robert Quhit, and Robert Dee. Notary -
Thomas de Kyrcaldy, priest, St. Andrews. [Two Seals.] " [3]
One further item of note on this subject. Based on the career of
the second Sir Henry Douglas of Lugton, it appears he was more likely
the son of an earlier (1st) unknown wife of Sir William Douglas, and
that Christian Lindsay was his second wife. This would account in
part for the resignation of Railston to Sir James Douglas: he was
Christian's eldest son and heir, but evidently not Sir William's.
Cheers,
John
Notes
[1] SP VI:365.
[2] SP, ibid.
[3] NAS, Papers of the Earls of Morton, GD150/96
URL http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/
=============================
" filiation of Christiana, wife of Douglas-Lochleven, Wemyss,
Auchinleck "
On Jan 13, 6:55 pm, "M.Sjostrom" <q...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> it looks likehttp://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00205370&tree=LEO
> (lady Christiana)
> is held as daughter of Alexander, earl of Crauford;
> but I began to be suspicious when I observed that the only source for the filiation is the ill-reputed Burke.
> What is actually known of her roots - and could she at all be daughter of earl Crauford ?
=============================
Dear M.,
This filiation is actually not based on Burke's, but rather on a
series of threads on SGM from 2006. I have copied below the one that
is most directly relevant as I see it: you may want to check the
others as well. One of the more specific pieces of evidence cited in
one of the earlier threads, a citation from Scots Peerage which was
(as I read it) incorrectly interpreted, concerning Elizabeth Douglas,
daughter of Sir William Douglas of Lochleven and his Lindsay wife:
' She afterwards married Richard Lovel of Ballumby,
with whom, on 24 August 1438, she had a charter
from Alexander Lindsay, second Earl of Crawford,
of the lands of Muirhouse, co. Inverness. In
this charter she is styled neptis of the Earl,
which shows that the commonly accepted marriage
of her father to a daughter of Sir David Lindsay,
first Earl of Crawford, is correct.' [SP VI:366,
cites Reg. Mag. Sig., 29 October 1463.]
Elizabeth Douglas was in fact the granddaughter of Alexander,
Earl of Crawford. The dispensation for her father Sir William
Douglas
to marry Elizabeth Lindsay (evidently d. before marriage, or
otherwise
replaced with Christian) is found in SP VI:365, required because of
"they being in the third and fourth degrees of consanguinity". Sir
William Douglas was a grandson of Sir John Stewart of Railston, half-
brother of Robert II. If Elizabeth (or Christian) Lindsay was a
daughter of David Lindsay, Earl of Crawford, she would have been a
granddaughter of Robert II, and they would have been related in the
3rd and 3rd degree. Therefore,
1. Sir William Douglas' Lindsay wife was a daughter of Alexander
Lindsay, Earl of Crawford, and a great-granddaughter of Robert II
(therefore the dispensation for 3rd and 4th degrees of consanguinity
is correct), and
2. Sir William's daughter Elizabeth, wife of Richard Lovel, was
the neptis (i.e., granddaughter and not niece) of Alexander Lindsay,
Earl of Crawford.
Cheers,
John
===============================================
SP Correction: Sir William Douglas and his Lindsay wife [II of II]
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From: Ther...@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 05:10:20 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Thurs, May 11 2006 12:10 am
Thursday, 11 May, 2006
Hello All,
In my previous post, I noted the correction needed concerning
the parentage of the wife of Sir William Douglas of Lochleven
(d. 1421). A further problem in this matter is the identification
of the wife, hitherto best known (per SP anyway) as " apparently "
Elizabeth Lindsay.
The Morton article in SP ignores further evidence on the
matter, but the subsequent Wemyss article provides the following
concerning the wife of David Wemyss of Wemyss (d. bef 14 Sept
1430):
' He married, between 1 and 4 February 1423-24, a lady
named Christian Douglas, who is described as the widow
of the late Sir William Douglas. Sir William Fraser
suggests her first husband was a son of the Laird of
Lochleven, but he had a dispensation to marry an
Elizabeth Lindsay. (see title Morton.) He may,
however, have married twice. Christian Douglas survived
David Wemyss, and married, thirdly, before 1443, Sir
James Auchinleck of Auchinleck. ' [1]
In fact, I suggest the following:
1) Sir William Douglas did have a dispensation to marry
Elizabeth Lindsay, daughter of Alexander (not David),
Earl of Crawford, ca. 1403-1415 (more likely ca. 1410/1415);
2) Elizabeth Lindsay, not being otherwise known to history
subsequently, died before the marriage occurred or was
consummated. Her place was taken by a hitherto unidentified
younger daughter - Christian, or Christiana, (Lindsay).
3) Christiana, known to history as "Christian Douglas", was
the wife successively of Sir William Douglas, David Wemyss
of Wemyss, and Sir James Auchinleck of that Ilk.
The following evidence serves to support this conjecture:
1. Association. There is an "instrument relative to contract
of marriage" between Eufemia Wemyss, daughter of Christian
'Douglas' by her 2nd husband David Wemyss ["Eufemia, filia
quondam Dauid de Wemys, progenita inter eundem Dauid et
Cristianam, nunc sponsam dicti domini Jacobi "] and the son
and heir of Sir Andrew Ogilvy of Inchmartin. Importantly,
the witnesses to this instrument were individuals known to
be related to the parties, and others not so readily
identified to date: lord Alexander Barclay of Garntully,
knight, Thomas Wemyss of Rares, John Wemyss of same [Rares],
James Douglas of Railston, and Henry Forrester of Niddry,
with many others - " domino Alexandro Berclay de Garntwly,
milite, Thoma Wemys de Reras, Johanne Wemys de eodem, Jacobo
Dowglas de Raylstoun, et Henrico Forstare de Nwdere, cum
multis aliis...", dated at Perth, 22 Jul 1443 [2].
Sir James Douglas of Railston ("Jacobo Dowglas de
Raylstoun") was the younger son of Sir William Douglas of
Lochleven by his, apparent, Lindsay wife. His association
as a witness to this charter, apparently being the
half-brother of Eufemia Wemyss, would be logical.
Therefore, it appears that Sir William Fraser was close
in his suggestion re: Douglas of Lochleven, only the
generation involved in the Lindsay marriage was different.
2. Onomastic evidence. The children of Sir William Douglas
bore common, but typical Lindsay names (Alexander,
Elizabeth). Further, as I noted in a prior thread
concerning a different conjecture re: Christian Douglas,
David Wemyss had a daughter named Eufemia, a name brought
into the Stewart and related families by King Robert II's
marriage to Euphemia of Ross - see #1 above, and the
conjectured chart below.
[NOTE: The following chart is conjectural.
additional documentation is being sought.]
Sir ALEXANDER Robert II = 2) EUPHEMIA
Lindsay K of Scots I of Ross
I ________________I
I I
David Lindsay = ELIZABETH
E of Crawford I Stewart
__I_____________________________
I I
ALEXANDER = Marjory ELIZABETH
E of Crawford I = Sir Robert
I Erskine
___________________I____________________
I I I
I Earl David ELIZABETH
I
Christian = 1) Sir William = 2) David = 3) Sir James
Lindsay I Douglas I Wemyss I Auchinleck
I d. ca. 1421 I d. ca. I k. 1449
I I 1430 I_______
_________I__________ ____I__________ _______I_________
I I I I I I I I I
Sir Henry SIR JAMES I John EUFEMIA I Sir James I
Douglas DOUGLAS I Wemyss = I John A. of I
of Lugton of I William I A. Glenbervie I
and Railston I Livingston I of that I
Lochleven I I Ilk ____I
___________________I ________I I
I I I Adam
ALEXANDER ELIZABETH Helen
Douglas Douglas
= Richard
Lovel
3. Documentary. The relationship between Elizabeth Douglas
and Alexander Lindsay, 2nd Earl of Crawford (d. 1439) was
discussed in the previous post [3]. In addition, Sir
John Auchinleck of that Ilk, the eldest son of Sir James
Auchinleck and Christian 'Douglas', was called " lovit
cousin and squire, John of Auchinleck of that Ilk ", in a
charter from his kinsman David Lindsay, (5th) Earl of
Crawford confirming a grant in 1466 [4]. Earl David was
a great-grandson of Alexander Lindsay, (2nd) Earl of
Crawford and his wife Marjory, and would have been the
1st cousin, 1x removed of Sir John Auchinleck by this
reconstruction.
This identification, if substantiated, will revise the ancestry
of a great many people, through the Douglas, Wemyss and Auchinleck
families - the Earls of Morton (5th Earl and later), the Earls of
Wemyss, Cunyngham of Craigends, Auchinleck of Glenbervie - not to
mention Alexander Hamilton, many Royals and a good many besides.
Any and all relevant documentation, comment and criticism is
welcome.
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] SP VIII:483, sub _Wemyss, Earl of Wemyss_, cites Wemyss
Book, II. 47-51.
[2] William Fraser, Memorials of the Family of Wemyss of Wemyss
[Edinburgh, 1888], II:65-66, no. 50.
[3] As previously stated [SP Correction: Sir William Douglas
and his Lindsay wife, part I of II], Elizabeth Douglas,
daughter of Sir William Douglas, is discussed in the SP
account concerning Douglas, Earl of Morton, which states,
in part,
' She afterwards married Richard Lovel of Ballumby, with
whom, on 24 August 1438, she had a charter from Alexander
Lindsay, second Earl of Crawford, of the lands of Muirhouse,
co. Inverness. In this charter she is styled neptis of the
Earl, which shows that the commonly accepted marriage of her
father to a daughter of Sir David Lindsay, first Earl of
Crawford, is correct. '
If the term <neptis> is understood in its other standard
usage of 'granddaughter', she would have instead been the
grantee of a 1438 charter by her grandfather, Earl
Alexander.
[4] Alexander C. Lindsay, Lives of the Lindsays, p. 117.
Douglas Richardson
I note below that you state that the seal of Christian de Douglas,
widow of Sir James de Auchinleck, was appended to the document you
cite. If Christian was a Lindsay, it should be indicated on her
seal. That should provide you conclusive evidence. Do you have a
description of her seal?
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
On Oct 19, 10:44 am, "John P. Ravilious" <ther...@aol.com> wrote:
> Monday, 19 October, 2009
wjho...@aol.com
The 1430 date seems more naturally applicable to the either the second or third marriage of Christian, or to a year between those last two marriages.
Will Johnson
John P. Ravilious
>
> - Show quoted text -
================
Dear Doug,
The description does indicate that two seals were still attached
to the transcript, but no description of same has been noted. This
likely would require a physical examination of the document in
Scotland. If possible, that would be a very nice piece of heraldic
evidence.
As it is, the evidence for the relationships to the Earls of
Crawford - (1) the dispensation for William Douglas to marry
"Elizabeth Lindsay of Brechin diocese, they being in the third and
fourth degrees of consanguinity "; (2) Christian's daughter Elizabeth
Douglas, "neptis of the Earl" [Alexander, 2nd Earl of Crawford], and
(3) her son John Auchinleck of that Ilk, " lovit cousin and squire "
of David Lindsay, 5th Earl of Crawford, make it rather certain how
these individuals were related to the Lindsay family.
Cheers,
John
John P. Ravilious
Dear Will,
It's clear that the crown charter (1430) was the document wherein
Christian (Lindsay) Douglas resigned her terce in Railstoun, in favor
of the young James Douglas. Exactly why this was done at that time is
not clear; but James would have had a tutor or guardian (presumably
his mother Christian was still involved therein).
Christian's 2nd husband David Wemyss had already died by 31 Dec
1430. We have the following to that effect:
' 167. Notarial Instrument of Sasine certifying that, in presence of
Robert Broky, notary public, and witnesses, personally compeared
Alexander Malvyne, Thomas Boy, Henry Boy, Thomas Boy, younger, and
David Galychtli, and asserted upon oath that they were present as
witnesses when Sir John of Vemis, lord of Reres, delivered to
Isabella, his spouse, sasine of the lands of Wester Rath, Glennistoun,
and Polgulde, with the pertinents, in the chief messuage of the same,
lying within the sheriffdom of Fife; and that that said Isabella, in
presence of the notary and witnesses, immediately thereafter gave
heritable sasine of the said lands to David of Vemis, her son, and his
heirs. Upon which Dame Cristian of Douglas, spouse of the said late
David of Vemis, craved instruments. Done in the town of Diserte,
14th September 1430. ' [ Fraser, Wemyss II:266-7, no. 167]
I think by this date she was already married to Sir James
Auchinleck, but this is not absolutely certain. He was slain soon
after 21 Apr 1449 [Fraser, The Melvilles, III:xviii-xix, no. 37]. The
reference to 'The seals of Christiana, relict of Sir James de
Achinlek' being appended - and that of her son John Wemyss - applies
to the notarial transcript (1458), not the original charter.
Cheers,
John