A Deincourt-Mohun Alternative ( Was Re: Deincourt uncertainties)
Douglas Richardson
William de Ferrers, 5th Earl of Derby (died 1254), had seven daughters
by his first wife, Sibyl Marshal. They include Isabel de Ferrers, his
2nd daughter (died 1260), who married (2nd) Reynold de Mohun (died
1258), and Joan de Ferrers, his 5th daughter, who married John de
Mohun (dead in 1254). John de Mohun was the son and heir of Reynold
de Mohun, by his first wife, Hawise Fitz Geoffrey. So we have a Mohun
father and son who married Ferrers sisters, much as we discovered
recently that a Verdun father and son who married a Bohun aunt and
niece.
Maxwell Lyte's book, History of Dunster, states that Reynold de Mohun
and Isabel de Ferrers had a daughter, Isabel, who married Edmund
Deincourt. We know from other sources, though, that Isabel de
Ferrers' issue failed in 1324, whereas it is certain that Edmund
Deincourt's issue continued past that date.
Since Edmund Deincourt's wife can't possibly be the daughter of
Reynold de Mohun, a good alternative seems to be that she was the
daughter instead of Reynold's son, John de Mohun, and his wife, Joan
de Ferrers. This would still leave Edmund's wife as a Mohun and still
give her a descent from William de Ferrers, 5th Earl of Derby.
Moreover, the chronology works fine. Edmund Deincourt was born about
1250 (as per the Thurgarton Cartulary). As such, we should expect his
wife to have been born in the period, 1250/1255, which is the exact
time period when John de Mohun and his wife, Joan, were having
children.
In this case, the original source that Edmund Deincourt's wife was
Isabel de Mohun appears to be notes from an unpublished Mohun
Cartulary. I'm uncertain just where the Mohun Cartulary is kept
today. However, I've seen a reference which implies abstracts from
it were published in the publication, Devon and Cornwall Notes and
Queries. I find it odd that the Mohun Cartulary would claim that
Edmund Deincourt's wife was a Mohun, if in fact she wasn't. Given
the double Mohun-Ferrers marriages, this might explain confusion over
which couple were the parents of Edmund Deincourt's wife.
I hasten to add that if Edmund Deincourt's wife was the daughter of
John de Mohun, this arrangement would restore Edmund Deincourt's
descendant, John de Willoughby, as a Ferrers descendant again, and
provide desired confirmation that Iseult, wife of Sir Hugh de Audley,
was the daughter of Hugh de Mortimer by his wife, Agatha, 6th daughter
of William de Ferrers, Earl of Derby.
Best always,
Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah, Home of Winter 2002 Olympics
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
johnschm...@gmail.com
>
> Since Edmund Deincourt's wife can't possibly be the daughter of
> Reynold de Mohun, a good alternative seems to be that she was the
> daughter instead of Reynold's son, John de Mohun, and his wife, Joan
> de Ferrers. This would still leave Edmund's wife as a Mohun and still
> give her a descent from William de Ferrers, 5th Earl of Derby.
> Moreover, the chronology works fine. Edmund Deincourt was born about
> 1250 (as per the Thurgarton Cartulary). As such, we should expect his
> wife to have been born in the period, 1250/1255, which is the exact
> time period when John de Mohun and his wife, Joan, were having
> children.
>
> In this case, the original source that Edmund Deincourt's wife was
> Isabel de Mohun appears to be notes from an unpublished Mohun
> Cartulary. I'm uncertain just where the Mohun Cartulary is kept
> today. However, I've seen a reference which implies abstracts from
> it were published in the publication, Devon and Cornwall Notes and
> Queries. I find it odd that the Mohun Cartulary would claim that
> Edmund Deincourt's wife was a Mohun, if in fact she wasn't. Given
> the double Mohun-Ferrers marriages, this might explain confusion over
> which couple were the parents of Edmund Deincourt's wife.