Szaszana
vangheluwe
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Bonjour,
I saw this webpage, but my knowledge in english was so bad that I dont
understanded how to search with this page. Thus I thank you for the
explainations wich was usefull
Hebrew and polish are both mystery's for me to. I dont understand why a
D-M-soundex search with Shosa (Shohana = Rose) dont indicate me Zosha (Zosia
= Sophie) and vice versa.
For a french, Shosa and Zosha sounds are fast equivalent. Thus why not a
confusion ( by the reporter of the glos glimny)between Szaszana and Zosia in
polish?
For a best comprehension, I will comparate the followings 2 sources, wich
are different about only 3 points (26 months, first name of the groom, first
name of the bride):
1/ My infos are the followings: (family papers as a marriage annoucement
card and some letters to his brother)
Zofji SMIETAN(owny) (Miss SMIETAN(a); SMIETAN is attested as name of the
mans of the family) was married 26/12/1936 by the rabbi Mendelson (Jaker as
far
I know: thanks to Jgen discussion groupe) in Warsaw with Roman(em)
MACHLIN(em).
In all her lettres to her brother she sign Zosia
2/ The record of JRI-Poland
Town: Warsaw Marriages 1939 (Glos Gminy, wich is I believe a diary of
jewish comunity)
SMIETANA Szaszana
MACHLIN Rubin Hersz
Date:November-1938
Issuedate : February-1939
Cordialement
Daniel Vangheluwe
----- Original Message -----
Daniel Vangheluwe of France posted as follows:
"I suppose that Szaszana is a equivalent of Suzanne, as Zosia or Zofji a
equivalent of Sophie, and Andzia a equivalent of Andrée. (I am french)
But, is it possibility that Szaszana may be a equivalent of either Zosia
or Andzia?
I maked a research about "Szaszana" on google and Jewish gen discussion
groupe archives and I obtained 0 files. Is it a more currently speeling in
polish?"
I believe that many of Daniel's questions may be answered if a search were
to be made of the Poland Given Names Data Base available at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/ . It is appropriate to
search for the following names: Zofia, Sophia, Zosia, Sofja, Suzanna,
Shoshana, Shosa, and similar others. Szaszana would be the Polish language
version of the Hebrew name Shoshana.
In such searches of the GNDBs, it is always best to start by using text
search for the first three letters of the name. For example, for Zosia,
use Zos*. Later, to try to cover missed alternatives, one should use
Daitch-Mokotoff search.
The next update of the data base for Poland will be forthcoming in a few
weeks, and these particular names will be expanded upon in the new data
base.
Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
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Prof. G. L. Esterson
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Daniel Vangheluwe of France posted as follows:
mailto:je...@vms.huji.ac.il
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Sally Bruckheimer
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You have a good point, Daniel. While purists can argue that Szaszana is a
form of Shoshona and thus different than Susanna, it is only in their
interpretation of 'Proper Hebrew' translation and not popular usage in
Polish. In the US, we have very variable spelling of names and differences
because names don't really translate. The same can happen in Polish (or
Russian or whatever). If you have a Polish clerk, for example, writing a
woman's name, he will write what he is familiar with, and Szaszana is enough
like Susanna that he might mean that or the 'Hebrew' Shoshona which he would
likely not be familiar with. While some would like to think that women had
Hebrew or Yiddish names, that wasn't always so. I have a Polish Johanna in
my family; why shouldn't you have Susanna?
So I think you need to keep both possibilities in mind.
Sally Bruckheimer
Albany, NY
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cfpottins2
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Susanna is also a Hebrew name, originally, is it not? And as the rose, we
are told, is not native to ha'aretz, maybe the ancients were a bit hazy on
flower names? I seem to recall 'Lily of Sharon' and 'Rose of Sharon'
being used alternately.
Charles Pottins
Sally Bruckheimer wrote:
> You have a good point, Daniel. While purists can argue that Szaszana is
a form of Shoshona and thus different than Susanna, it is only in their
> interpretation of 'Proper Hebrew' translation and not popular usage in
> Polish. In the US, we have very variable spelling of names and
differences because names don't really translate. The same can happen in
Polish (or Russian or whatever). If you have a Polish clerk, for example,
writing a woman's name, he will write what he is familiar with, and
Szaszana is enough like Susanna that he might mean that or the 'Hebrew'
Shoshona which he would likely not be familiar with. While some would
like to think that women had Hebrew or Yiddish names, that wasn't always
so. I have a Polish Johanna in my family; why shouldn't you have Susanna?
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Udi Cain
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Susanna is also a Hebrew name, originally, is it not? And as the rose, we
are told, is not native to ha'aretz, maybe the ancients were a bit hazy on
flower names? I seem to recall 'Lily of Sharon' and 'Rose of Sharon'
being used alternately.
Charles Pottins
Dear Charles.
Shoshana is originally a Persian name, which derives from Susan (Shoshan in
the bible), the capital city of ancient Persia. Chavatzelet is a Lily and
not a rose ! A species of Chavatzelet (Lily), is also called Shoshan
Tzachor. Making Shoshana out of Rose, is maybe the privilege of songs
writers, Shoshana was not a flower, until a modern song recreate her as
such.
Rose in Hebrew is Vered.
Best regards.
Udi Cain. Jerusalem.
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Claire Petersky
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"Udi Cain" wrote:
> Shoshana is originally a Persian name, which derives from Susan
> (Shoshan in the bible), the capital city of ancient Persia.
> Chavatzelet is a Lily and not a rose ! A species of Chavatzelet
> (Lily), is also called Shoshan Tzachor. Making Shoshana out of Rose,
> is maybe the privilege of songs writers, Shoshana was not a flower,
> until a modern song recreate her as such.
>
> Rose in Hebrew is Vered.
I have a English-named Rose whose Hebrew name is Shoshana, named for a
grandmother who was Bluma.
Warm Regards,
Claire Petersky (cpet...@yahoo.com)
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