The name Yankel
David Ziants
> My grandfather's name was Yankel in Lithuania and he changed it to William
> in the US. He was also known as Avigdor.
>
> I think Yankel is Yiddish for Jacob, .... Snipped ....
Yankel is indeed a Yiddish possibility for Jacob.
In Hebrew, the name is Ya'akov which is spelt: Yud, 'Ayin, Kuf, Bet .
Although most Ashkenazim were/are unable to pronounce the 'Ayin as a guttaral
from below the throat, the Lithuanians (Litvaks) rather then leave
this letter silent (like an Aleph), pronounced it almost like a
Nun or "N".
Hence they would say Yankov in Hebrew, and in Yiddish this became Yankel.
--
David Ziants <dav...@netmedia.net.il>
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel
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---
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Jessica Schein
> Hence they would say Yankov in Hebrew, and in Yiddish this became Yankel.
>
I am not in the least an expert in Yiddish names but I do know that
Yankel is a diminutive (aka nickname) of Yakov. (Very basic naming
conventions) It was and is a child's name. The person would have been
named Yakov.
Jessica Schein
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Danita Simon
I have quite accidentally found one. Sometimes we don't know enough to
ask the right questions. I have been struggling the past few weeks to
fit a Jacob that I found in the 1920 census into my family tree. I had
just about given up when, quite by chance I read David Ziants reply to a
question and there right in front of me was the answer I had been
seeking. Jacob was my grandfather's uncle Yankel.
So thank you for a job well done and thank you for helping even when I
didn't know I needed it.
Danita Simon
Wynnewood, Pennsylvania
David Ziants wrote:
>
>>Madelyn Travis wrote (19/11/98 Message 42):
>> My grandfather's name was Yankel in Lithuania and he changed it to >>William in the US. He was also known as Avigdor.
>> I think Yankel is Yiddish for Jacob, .... Snipped ....
>
> Yankel is indeed a Yiddish possibility for Jacob.
> In Hebrew, the name is Ya'akov which is spelt: Yud, 'Ayin, Kuf, Bet .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SNIP
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Moshe Hochenberg
>Although most Ashkenazim were/are unable to pronounce the 'Ayin as a
>guttaral from below the throat, the Lithuanians (Litvaks) rather then
>leave this letter silent (like an Aleph)
Perhaps David could tell us how he believes the A'YIN should
be pronounced, giving us a number of examples in Hebrew, and
also in Yiddish?)
Shavu'a Tov
Moshe Hochenberg
London, UK
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David Ziants
> David Ziants wrote:
> >Although most Ashkenazim were/are unable to pronounce the 'Ayin as a
> >leave this letter silent (like an Aleph), pronounced it almost like a
> >Nun or "N".
>
> be pronounced,
Firstly, I am surprised that this question falls within the scope of
Jewishgen, but as it was allowed I will give my answer, and hope other
subscribers will be able to present the forum with some additional ideas
for this.
At the end of the day, no one knows what the exact original pronunciations
of the Hebrew letters were, but a number of ideas have been put forward
by scholars.
The Yemenites, unlike other communities, have always made a distinction
of the vocalisation of *all* the Hebrew letters, and for this reason
they are considered to be possessing the most authentic pronunciation.
According to this, their pronunciation of the a'yin would also be the
most original way.
Sephardim (Aidot HaMizrach) also make their a'yin well pronounced, but
the different communities (so I heard) have different nuances.
Ashkenazim fair worst, and especially today in English speaking countries,
there is no (or hardly no) distinction between the aleph and a'yin. The
exception among ashkenazim was the Litvaks, as I stated.
In Jerusalem, men can get a preview of the variety of Hebrew
pronunciations in general, and the scopes of the a'yin in particular,
by visiting the small Shul in the central bus-station, where there are
minyanim (services) one after the other, and in parallel (especially
late afternoon or early evening). For each minyan, there is the person
who happens to lead, who often has his own custom in pronouncing Hebrew
according to his ancestry or the way he was taught.
Moshe Hochenberg continued:
> giving us a number of examples in Hebrew, and also in Yiddish?)
I can't give examples in Yiddish, for the simple reason that I don't
know the language. Giving the etymology of the name Yankel, is probably
almost as far as I can go with this language.
For Hebrew examples, the considerations are technical, as I am unable to
send "midi" sound files to Jewishgen, and don't think I would have the
time to produce one, even if I could. No doubt, a search of the WWW
could possibly come up with a sound-track of a Bar-Mitzva boy who can do
an a'yin (exercise for the reader).
I will, though, try and describe the a'yin pronunciation process and will
use the name "Ya'akov" for an example. Please try and not take what I say
here TOO seriously.
a) For Sephardi style:- when you get to the second "a", try putting
your tongue to the back of your throat almost swallowing it
(but please don't!!!), and then let the rest of the "a" come out from
the stomach - you can now relax for the "kov". Alternatively, have a slice
of raw onion at the back of your mouth when you say this (A method I've
never tried and I don't take responsibility for side effects (cheaky grin).
b) For Litvaks:- Just say Ya'nkoiv while holding your nose.
On a personal note, I grew up in the British United Synagogue cheder system
of the mid 60's to mid 70's, where aleph and a'yin were taught as identical,
and probably the teachers were unaware that the letters are essentially
different. As a result, I never learnt to read Hebrew with the difference,
but in recent years I have been trying, and sometimes succeeding,
in producing an a'yin when I daven (pray).
David Ziants
dav...@netmedia.net.il
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel
MODERATOR NOTE: The original question was allowed because it was
deemed of genealogical value. The pronunciation of a word, when
transliterated into English or another language might change it
enough to make it difficult for a researcher to link it to a known
family name. We hope this thread will not carry us too far afield
from our main topic. Further posts will be included only if their
relevance to genealogy is clear.
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David Ziants
pronunciation to genealogy:
> MODERATOR NOTE: The original question was allowed because it was
> deemed of genealogical value. The pronunciation of a word, when
> transliterated into English or another language might change it
> enough to make it difficult for a researcher to link it to a known
Apart from the aspect of difficulty in matching names because of different
pronunciations, there is another relevance to genealogy which hopefully
has been exemplified in this thread. This is the ability to *sometimes*
locate the whereabouts of the ancestry of a person by the way he prays.
*sometimes* - This is probably much more common with the older generations,
because often, nowadays, a person is taught differently to his paternal
tradition.
For example: My grandfather's ashkenazi pronunciation nuances might possibly
be matched to others from the Bialystok region, as he could have been taught
directly by his father. This would be untrue of my father and myself,
who were taught by others in our pre-bar-mitzva days.
David Ziants <dav...@netmedia.net.il>
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel
ZIANTS was originally ZENETSKI from Narewka, and also searching ISHMA
(became DAVIDSON) from this town.
MBe...@aol.com
<< he believes the A'YIN should be pronounced, >>
==The usual Israeli-Sfardi/Edot Hamizrach way is accomplished by sort of
gagging in the back of the throat as you say "a." It's not difficult after a
bit of practice and I, not just an Ahskenazi but a Yekke on top of it, have
mastered it and now always use it, in prayer and in conversation.
I once heard a cantor from the Spanish And Portuguese Synagogue in NYC sing at
a Friday evening dinner is Shlomo Carlebach's schul. He pronouced the `ayin
as if it was an aleph preceded by a resh--which shocked many people used more
to the American or East European Ashkenazi pronounciations. The Torah reader
in my synagogue is from Yemen. He uses standard American cantillation but
pronounces his `ayin with that initial gagging. Incidentally, that `ayin
sound is used also in Arabic. I tend to believe it's the original
prnounciation, because it's so universal. The Yankov/Yankel attempt (a nasal
`ayin) is a poor substitute.
Michael Bernet, New York
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