Historical Question: Spain, surname spellings
Carlos Gonzalez
Help, I being 40 years old was wondering about the use of dual names
in Spain during the Inquisition. I was born in South Texas in the
United States. I see where some of us are named Gonzales, some
Gonzalez, Sanches and Sanchez, Lopes and Lopez, Gutierres and
Gutierrez and too many others to list. Our last names alternating
between the letter s and z.
I remember reading in a newspaper article or in a book that
this was related to the persecution of Jews during the
Inquisition and the forced conversion of jews to Catholic
religion. The last letter being used to tell them apart.
But which was which? Did the ones with the letter z convert?
I know someone out there knows the answer and I can't find
the article. "Wanderings, Chaim Potoks, History of the Jews"
was one of my favorite reads, but a 2nd quick read didn't yield
the answer. Thanks in Advance.
Avrum Lapin
A few years ago I asked one of my engineers (a Marques) whether there was
a significance between the spelling of Marques and Marquez.
His reply was that he thought it depended on whether ones ancestors had
spent a lot of time in Mexico or not or possibly an upper vs lower class
thing.
Avrum Lapin, of Upland, CA
avru...@cyberg8t.com closing my AOL account
Researching:
LAPIN Grodno
LAPUNSKI Grodno,Indura and Sokolka
KATZ,Abraham Bialystok and Sokolka
LUBELSKY Bialystok
Dionysia Marqueza
Carlos Gonzalez (carlos....@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: Help, I being 40 years old was wondering about the use of dual names
: in Spain during the Inquisition. I was born in South Texas in the
: United States. I see where some of us are named Gonzales, some
: Gonzalez, Sanches and Sanchez, Lopes and Lopez, Gutierres and
: Gutierrez and too many others to list. Our last names alternating
: between the letter s and z.
: I remember reading in a newspaper article or in a book that
: this was related to the persecution of Jews during the
: Inquisition and the forced conversion of jews to Catholic
: religion. The last letter being used to tell them apart.
I had always looked at this variation in spelling to be an example
of linguistic drift... in Castilian, 'z' is spoken with a 's' sound- the
town of Zarita would be pronouced "Sah-ree-tah". In Hemisperic (New World)
spanish, I have noted that many names that I am accustomed to seeing spelt
with a z are spelt with an s. I always assumed it was the same sort of
thing that happened to b/v... a word much bandied about in the western US
is 'barrio'. a -varrio- (pronounced bah-ree-oh) is a village, and the term
has come to be the hispanic equivalent of ghetto. I certainly blinked the
first time I saw written reference to 'barrio Logan'.
I have never heard that the spelling of names indicated whether
one was jewish or marrano... if so, I wonder at all of the long-time
Catholic families of Iberia that use the z instead of the s in their
names. I would be intersted if anyone could site a source on this: would
be a useful sort of tool to have.
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Deborah-Raquel Dionysia Luria y Marqueza di Asturias dion...@netcom.com
"Shoe the Horse and shoe the Mare, but let the little Colt go bare"
Anita Bonita
Dionysia Marqueza <dion...@netcom.com> wrote:
Going back about twenty years to my undergraduate studies in Romance
linguistics...as I recall, the patronymic -ez was Basque in origin.
Also, though usage is not exclusive, -es is more prevalent in names of
Portuguese and/or Galician (gallego) origin, while -ez is more common
in names originating throughout the rest of the Iberian peninsula. The
religious aspect doesn't enter into it at all.
Anita Bonita
Dionysia Marqueza
Anita Bonita (abo...@cybernex.net) wrote:
: Going back about twenty years to my undergraduate studies in Romance
: linguistics...as I recall, the patronymic -ez was Basque in origin.
: Also, though usage is not exclusive, -es is more prevalent in names of
: Portuguese and/or Galician (gallego) origin, while -ez is more common
: in names originating throughout the rest of the Iberian peninsula. The
: religious aspect doesn't enter into it at all.
This would certainly make sense in my case: there have always been
many Basque from both sides of the Pyrenees in my father's family.
Although most of the family is from Asturias, (surprise!) Cantabria, the
Basque areas and Navarre, there are sizable septs of Galiceno, Catalunian
and coastal Portugeuse in the family, all of whom have rather different
names. Not surprising, given the regional language differences.
tlerma
Hola. carlos, my name is Terry Lerma. Being sephardic, via mexico, I have a
familiarity with your question. The answer lies with your hypothesis.
Families with spanish surnames like "lopes" and "sanches" versus the ususal
castillian "lopez, and sanchez" does in fact have to do with the
inquisistion. Those families who chose to remain in Espana during the
inquisition, were obligated to take on spanish surnames, however, the
church wanted to distinguish the "nuevos Christianos" from the old, hence
the converso spelling. I know tons of sephardic Jews, as well as Catholics
from Mexico, Brazil, Portugal, etc.. with these names, who in fact know
they are of Jewish heritage. In conclusion, latinos with these names are
most probably descended from conversos.
Jose Antonio Corrales
Path: opalo.etsiig.uniovi.es!ja
From: j...@opalo.etsiig.uniovi.es (Jose A. Corrales)
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.jewish
Subject: Re: Historical Question: Spain, surname spellings
Message-ID: <1996Dec3.2...@opalo.etsiig.uniovi.es>
Date: 3 Dec 96 22:24:08 +0200
References: <329bcac7...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>
<dionysiaE...@netcom.com>
Organization: Universidad de Oviedo
Lines: 38
Path: opalo.etsiig.uniovi.es!ja
From: j...@opalo.etsiig.uniovi.es (Jose A. Corrales)
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.jewish
Subject: Re: Historical Question: Spain, surname spellings
Message-ID: <1996Dec3.2...@opalo.etsiig.uniovi.es>
Date: 3 Dec 96 22:17:39 +0200
References: <329bcac7...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>
<dionysiaE...@netcom.com>
Organization: Universidad de Oviedo
Lines: 28
In article <dionysiaE...@netcom.com>, Dionysia Marqueza
<dion...@netcom.com> writes:
>
> I had always looked at this variation in spelling to be an example
> of linguistic drift... in Castilian, 'z' is spoken with a 's' sound- the
> town of Zarita would be pronouced "Sah-ree-tah". In Hemisperic (New World)
Sorry, in castillian spanish Zarita is pronounced with a "z"
sound like "th".
The "z" is _always_ pronounced in such way.
The 's' sound can be found only in some areas of southern Spain:
Andalucia and Canary Islands (and in latin America, of course).
> spanish, I have noted that many names that I am accustomed to seeing spelt
> with a z are spelt with an s. I always assumed it was the same sort of
> thing that happened to b/v... a word much bandied about in the western US
> is 'barrio'. a -varrio- (pronounced bah-ree-oh) is a village, and the term
> has come to be the hispanic equivalent of ghetto. I certainly blinked the
> first time I saw written reference to 'barrio Logan'.
>
[erased]
--
Jose A. Corrales (JAC422) ETSIIII Gijon, Universidad de Oviedo (ASTURIAS)
corr...@etsiig.uniovi.es 16515::JA CORRALES AT EOVUOV11
C=es; ADMD=mensatex; PRMD=iris; O=uniovi; OU=etsiig; S=corrales
Dionysia Marqueza
: <dion...@netcom.com> writes:
: >
: > I had always looked at this variation in spelling to be an example
: > of linguistic drift... in Castilian, 'z' is spoken with a 's' sound- the
: > town of Zarita would be pronouced "Sah-ree-tah". In Hemisperic (New World)
: Sorry, in castillian spanish Zarita is pronounced with a "z"
: sound like "th".
: The "z" is _always_ pronounced in such way.
Interesting that should bring this up: my experience of
continental Spanish comes almost exclusively from what I hear my family
speak, when they speak Spanish at all- it has been far more common for
them to speak Ladino, Basque or Occitan, in my presence, at least. As
such, I don't doubt that there is a highly idiomatic factor in the way
they speak -any- language: to wit, my cousin Marcia, born in Barcelona,
is variously addressed as either "mar-cha" or "mar-cee-ah". I defer to
superior knowledge. Myself, I grew up in household were Ladino, English,
Occitan and French were the primary languages.
: The 's' sound can be found only in some areas of southern Spain:
: Andalucia and Canary Islands (and in latin America, of course).
Something that was pointed out to me elsewhere: apparently the
Portugeuse spelling of words held in common with Spanish sometimes
replaces S with Z. My own name was cited as an example- a marquis in
Spain is a Marques, in Portugal a Marquez. Perhaps the difference in name
spelling may in part represent Portuguese ancestry... ?
ras...@aol.com
I always thought that the difference in the last letter "z" or "s" in
Rodriguez, Gonzalez, etc. was the way the Castillian language used to
reffer to origin; i.e. Rodriguez meaning "form the house of Rodrigo,
actually Rodrigo Ruiz Diaz de Vivar (El Cid), etc. The "s" instead of the
"z", goes if the name is Portuguese.
Jews needed to disguise so much for the terror of the Inquisition that
generally, when forced to convert to as "Catholics", they had to take
very different names from what they were carrying. For exemple, in my
country, Colombia, some of us know that last names like "Toro", "Luna",
"Mesa", "Pkuerta" or "Vaca", meaning animals or things, and others like
Silva, Chavez (for Sabbath) are really names of Sephardic jews who were
able to come to the colonies from Spain after been baptized as
"Catholics".
Ra l Serna
-=-
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