Coat-Of-Arms
Tom Gallen
Families that are recognized by the Genealogical Office in Dublin but
what's up with all the coat-of-arms available on the internet and at
Irish Festivals. It seems that more family crests for uncommon
surnames (like mine) become available every month. There seems to be
no authenticity associated with them. Does anyone know where they come
from? Are they all bogus?
Sean MacLochlainn
news:76999f87.02050...@posting.google.com...
Some are made up to satisfy demand and some are English or Scots arms
belonging to families with surnames that sound similar to an Irish surname:
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~donnaweb/index.html
Click on 'Articles' then 'Spurious Coats of Arms'.
The only way to be sure you are not ripped off is by research, starting with
MacLysaghts 'Irish Families' etc and progressing through Burkes General
Armoury to the early original sources such as:
Genealogical Office 157 - O Ferralls Linea Antiqua, 1709.
British Library, Harley 4039 - Book of Arms by James Terry, 1712.
Cashel Library, MS 4729 - A Gaelic Armoury by Dermot O Connor, 1714.
Keatings History of Ireland - Appendix by O Connor, 1723 edition.
Genealogical Office 62 - Grants Carney and Hawkins, circa 1710.
And not forgetting the Genealogical Office indexes (there are many Gaelic
arms recorded at the GO):
GO 115-17 Indexes I, II & III - SLC 100188 items 1-3
GO 386 Index to Funeral Entries - SLC 100142
GO 422-3 Index to Arms - SLC 100205 items 3 & 4
GO 469 Index to Registered Pedigrees - SLC 100152 item 1
GO 470 Index to Unregistered Pedigrees - SLC 100152 item 2
The fellow behind the site linked above seems to have researched fairly
deeply, I noticed a few things on his site that I have only otherwise seen
in obscure manuscripts like the ones above, so you could short circuit your
research by asking him where he got his Gallen arms from.
Sean
NO SPAMMING
can buy a plate or a saucer, or shield with it on, BUT it is
of a different name. For Example "Ó Quinn of Annaly" Coats
of Arms were originally granted to an individual member of
a family, and to-day bought for a price from the
Genealogical Office of Ireland at Dublin - quite a 'Sham"
operation. . Coats of Arms are not generic - meaning anyone
with the same surnames has no right to use them, if they
were not granted or bought..
That is my understanding of the 'B...shite'
(No personal replies - reply to LIST only, please. Thank
you).
(AOL users might not know their privacy is being invaded
see:www.newsbytes.com/news/02/175035.html
=================================
"Tom Gallen" <tga...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:76999f87.02050...@posting.google.com...
Dennis Reiley
actually earn the Coat Of Arms, more and more frequently such is not the
case. Or do you mean is the person legally entitled to claim the Coat Of
Arms, yes if it was granted by a College of Arms.
Incredible as it seems you can have a Coat Of Arms made up for you. Why a
Coat Of Arms can be purchased instead of only earned is a mystery to me.
Being able to purchase a Coat Of Arms tends to make all Coat Of Arms
worthless.
Best wishes,
Dennis Reiley
rei...@usol.com
> ______________________________
Sean MacLochlainn
news:002f01c1f1cc$9feb39a0$bfec1240@l6n7f2...
> Depends upon what you mean by bogus. If you mean did your surname
> ancestor actually earn the Coat Of Arms, more and more frequently such is
> not the case. Or do you mean is the person legally entitled to claim the
Coat > Of Arms, yes if it was granted by a College of Arms.
>
> Incredible as it seems you can have a Coat Of Arms made up for you. Why a
> Coat Of Arms can be purchased instead of only earned is a mystery to me.
> Being able to purchase a Coat Of Arms tends to make all Coat Of Arms
> worthless.
Grants of arms were always available to anyone with enough cash to buy one,
no further earning was required. The vast majority of arms in Ireland were
self-assumed, that is they do not originate in a grant from the heraldic
authority (Office of Arms) set up in Ireland by the English in the sixteenth
century. Because it is usually impossible to identify an original
self-assumer and trace his descendants, the Office of Arms introduced
confirmations. These look similar to grants but they do not create anything,
they just confirm that certain arms have been used in a family for a period
in excess of three generations or 100 years. This is where the idea of sept
arms comes in, as several modern families can be entitled to confirmation of
the same arms.
Sean
Pat Traynor
>
>I know about the many coat-of-arms of the Anglo-Irish and major Gaelic
>Families that are recognized by the Genealogical Office in Dublin but
>what's up with all the coat-of-arms available on the internet and at
>Irish Festivals. It seems that more family crests for uncommon
>surnames (like mine) become available every month. There seems to be
>no authenticity associated with them. Does anyone know where they come
>from? Are they all bogus?
Maybe not all "bogus". May have been some one person who had an arms made up
for themselves at some time in the past.
Here's one example, with my surname.
Decades ago, my mother sent for a coat of arms for TRAYNOR and got apretty
wooden plaque with the TRAYNOR name on it, but we later discovered it was
actually the arms for ARMSTRONG. (An arm holding an uprooted oaktree).
Some Traynors, McClaves and Lavertys, had changed their name to Armstrong
when they moved into the English Pale, but there was no mention of that with
the plaque.
Another relative bought a TRAYNOR arms plaque and got the arms for Lord TRAYNER,
Doctor of Laws, University of Glascow. Those arms were only created in 1878.
It was created for just this one man, not a family or sept, and it is the
onemost used on key-ring emblems, etc., and sent to most Traynor, Treanor,
Trainor, etc. people seeking a coat of arms for their surname.
I doubt that any arms vendor ever explains to their customers that arms were
granted to an individual and not a family.
The purchaser goes on blissfully ignorant of the facts, believing their
family was once important enough to have had a coat of arms.
Patrick Traynor, tr...@lanset.com
TRAYNOR'S Web Page (Irish stuff) http://angelfire.com/my/tray