"sche" after a surname
Gail Sampson
Gerlach becomes Gerlachsche. It is NOT a separate surname from the
first...just changed in a list where the person was named as a godparent.
Also, what does it mean when Schen or 'schen is added after a town
name...such as Grunwalde'schen?
Thanks for your help.
Gail Sampson
H.Henkler
Herb Henkler
Gail Sampson schrieb:
Jan Tabel
recorded as <family name> sche.
Here: Gerlachsche means: the wife of Gerlach. It can also mean an unmarried
daughter of Gerlach.
`schen after a town's name: its a Genitiv. In the meaning of Grunewald's. But
its more, saying, that the causa after the town's name is typical for or
belongs to the whole region.
Gail Sampson schrieb:
Kbussmeyer
>> Gerlach becomes Gerlachsche. It is NOT a separate surname from the
>> first...just changed in a list where the person was named as a godparent.
>>
>> Also, what does it mean when Schen or 'schen is added after a town
>> name...such as Grunwalde'schen?
>Here: Gerlachsche means: the wife of Gerlach. It can also mean an unmarried
>daughter of Gerlach.
>
>`schen after a town's name: its a Genitiv. In the meaning of Grunewald's. But
>its more, saying, that the causa after the town's name is typical for or
>belongs to the whole region.
Completely agreed, but a small hint for German language beginners may be
helpful:
*Both* applications are genitive case.
*Both* mean 'lineage', 'membership', -- and -- 'possession'.
To draw the attention on the (today's) ambiguity of this case (surname of a
woman): if one would introduce himself to a lady of these days and ask her:
"So I learned, you are 'die Gerlach'sche' ", it would be advisable for him to
stay away out of the reach of her hands for the next few seconds :-)
To summarize: The old official surname ending 'sche' has been dropped but
survives in the daily language with the odour of dependency and patriarchy.
Klaus Bussmeyer
dti
delineate gender?
Diane I.
Life is good.
My email account is at nyc.rr.com addressed to dti
Gert Schmiechen
dti schrieb:
> What does genitive mean? I have never seen that word before. Does it
> delineate gender?
>
> Diane I.
> Life is good.
> My email account is at nyc.rr.com addressed to dti
>
> >
That means second casus.
Kbussmeyer
> What does genitive mean?
The grammatical case indicating origin, relation, membership, and / or --
possession -- (this was the point when we were talking about the German
language). The word itself has its root in the ancient Greek and Latin
language(s).
Indeed, the (English) 'Possessive Case' is closest to it and this may be more
familiar to the English tongue.
Klaus Bussmeyer
Robert Heiling
> What does genitive mean? I have never seen that word before. Does it
> delineate gender?
It's rather strange to see someone from the USA coming to a newsgroup
dedicated to German research in order to ask questions about English
grammar. I hope our German friends don't get the wrong impression. Most
people in the USA know how to use a dictionary and "genitive" is in it.
"Moravia" , a word that you were also too lazy to look up, is also in the
dictionary.
Bob
dti
english language a bit differently than Americans are. We also don't use
the word "casus" but, rather, "case." Latin is usually an elective in high
school and not taught in most grammar schools. Neither of the words,
'genitive' or 'casus' were in my American Heritage dictionary. Thanks
again!
Diane I.
Life is good.
My email account is at nyc.rr.com addressed to dti
"Kbussmeyer" <kbuss...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010609154045...@nso-ba.aol.com...
Robert Heiling
> Thank you for your kind explanation. Obviously Germans are taught the
> english language a bit differently than Americans are. We also don't use
> the word "casus" but, rather, "case." Latin is usually an elective in high
> school and not taught in most grammar schools. Neither of the words,
> 'genitive' or 'casus' were in my American Heritage dictionary. Thanks
> again!
Really? Better get a new one then or learn to use online resources.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language
Fourth Edition
http://www.bartleby.com/61/
genitive
SYLLABICATION:
gen·i·tive
PRONUNCIATION:
jn-tv
ADJECTIVE:
1. Of, relating to, or being the grammatical case expressing possession,
measurement, or source. 2. Of or relating to an affix or construction, such as
a
prepositional phrase, characteristic of the genitive case.
NOUN:
1. The genitive case. 2. A word or form in the genitive case.
ETYMOLOGY:
Middle English genetif, from Latin genetvus, from genitus, past participle of
gignere, to beget. See gen- in Appendix I.
HTH
Bob
dti
thanks" for the put-downs.
Diane I.
Life is good.
My email account is at nyc.rr.com addressed to dti
"Robert Heiling" <rh...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:3B22923F...@qwest.net...
Robert Heiling
> A Newsgroup is an online resource. Thanks for the definition,
As an "online resource", this newsgroup and the people who are kind enough to
answer queries here, is available for questions in regard to German genealogy
research. Kindly confine your questions to that topic and spend a little more
time answering your own off-topic questions via easily available internet
resources or via your own personal library (which appears to need updating
:-) )
> but "No
> thanks" for the put-downs.
You fully deserve every one of them.
dti
dti
am forwarding it here. Thanks!
Diane I.
Life is good.
My email account is at nyc.rr.com addressed to dti
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lila Garner"
To: <d...@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: "sche" after a surname
> Hi - It is a case in German (as well as Latin and probably some other
> languages) that corresponds to the possessive case in English.
>
> I'm not at home and am retrieving my mail through my Hotmail account and
not
> subscribed thru Hotmail to Gen-DE, thus my private reply.
>
> I don't know how to spell the names of the other cases in German. Dativ
> doesn't have a corresponding case in English, it is used for the object of
> the prepositions aus, außer, bei, mit, noch, seit, von, zu and some others
> in certain situations. You can sing the aus außer etc. to the tune of the
> Blue Danube Waltz, to memorize them. Accusativ (maybe with 2 k's instead
of
> 2 c's) is objective.
>
> German is a difficult language to learn, but I hope this will answer your
> question. Lila
Westerhold
Carsten Laekamp
> Bobby,
> Yes, Robert [name and address cut out], get a life.
> Lee
Come on, he's perfectly right. Diane complained about the English
used by non-native speakers who wanted to help her. At the same time,
she doesn't even make the effort to look up a perfectly English word
("genitive") which can be found in any dictionary; even my pocket
dictionary has it. And if hers _really_ is that bad, it took me about
30 seconds to find the definition through a web search on Google
(http://www.google.com).
Just stop and think: if you put down everyone who tries to help you
and show that you aren't ready to make any effort yourself, how many
fools do you think you will find to answer your next request ?
--
Carsten Läkamp
dti
I did not complain about anything. I merely asked a question. I said
"thank you" and did not put anyone down. And I was flamed by Mr. Heiling
for "not looking it up" when I already had and did not find it. I have been
told by several kind people here (privately and in the threads) that I would
not be familiar with the term if I had never studied Latin, which I did not.
I don't understand what the great sin is in asking a simple question.
Apparently many of you defend the notion of ridiculing people who ask
questions, rather than simply answering them. This newsgroup is one of my
online resources, and I feel my question was legitimate and pertained to the
subject at hand. If you want to just answer every question with a nasty
admonition to "look it up," -- well, I feel sorry for you.
For some reason, your pal Mr. Heiling sees fit to flame me. He referred to
a thread from another newsgroup from several weeks ago, and he states I was
"too lazy to look up" Moravia. In fact, I did not ask what Moravia is. I
know what Moravia is. Someone else asked what Moravia is, and was ridiculed
for asking. In the thread to which Mr. Heiling refers, I merely pointed out
to another poster that the way in which they answered the question would not
make anyone feel very welcome to return and ask more questions. I don't
even remember who it was. I moved on, and will continue to use this
newsgroup, and others, to ask questions. But why continue to berate me? I
would only hope that if anyone asks a question that would be more
appropriate in another newsgroup, that other posters would politely direct
them to the more appropriate newsgroup, without an added snide comment.
People like Mr. Heiling, and those that feel he is justified in saying I
"deserve" to be flamed, make me truly grateful that I am me. I wouldn't
want to experience what it's like to be inside his skin for even a moment.
Diane I.
Life is good.
My email account is at nyc.rr.com addressed to dti
"Carsten Laekamp" <carsten...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:slrn9i853v.ass....@ariane.home.i...
Tilman Brandl
> I don't understand what the great sin is in asking a simple question.
No sin at all, rest assured. ; )
Regards
Tilman
Maureen Shelly
> ______________________________
Maureen Shelly
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gert Schmiechen" <gers...@gmx.net>
To: <GEN-...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: "sche" after a surname
> ______________________________
Hotop117
Gerlach is mentioned. I think everybody knows that person by that name
"Gerlachsche" and doesn't need a first name.
Singhals
dti wrote:
> told by several kind people here (privately and in the threads) that I would
> not be familiar with the term if I had never studied Latin, which I did not.
I beg leave to point out that I encounted both words while
studying French; my sister heard them while taking Spanish.
Cheryl
Olbear
those have dropped out. You've beaten it to death.
Further comment is superfluous and pedantic.
Tom
Olb...@mbay.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Singhals" <Sing...@erols.com>
To: <GEN-...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: "sche" after a surname
>
>
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