Re: GEN-DE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 24

[dave...@suddenlink.net]

I don't know where people think Low German comes from Northern Germany. My Dad and his family spoke Low German (actually, my Aunt spoke it pretty good). My GGrandfather Michael Weinfurtner came from Bavarian near the Czech border and they all spoke Low German. I remember one time I asked my dad and even my aunt and they said it was Low German. Michael migrated to this country in 1882.
Dave Weinfurtner
---- gen-de-...@rootsweb.com wrote:
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: High German and Low German (Siegfried Huismann)
> 2. Re: High German and Low German (Bernd Niemann)
> 3. Re: High German and Low German (Olaf Barheine)
> 4. Re: High German and Low German (Bernd J. Kaup)
> 5. Re: High German and Low German (Paul Berndt)
> 6. Re: High German and Low German (Siegfried Huismann)
> 7. Re: High German and Low German (Siegfried Huismann)
> 8. Re: High German and Low German (Bernd J. Kaup)
> 9. Re: PLACHT or WENZEL ---SCHONBACH
> (christine....@gmail.com)
> 10. Re: High German and Low German (Bernd J. Kaup)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 14:23:36 +0100
> From: Siegfried Huismann <newsgroup...@spamgourmet.com>
> Subject: Re: GEN-DE High German and Low German
> To: gen...@rootsweb.com
> Message-ID: <khi1gn$q7c$1...@news.albasani.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Where did you find that nonsens, or is that your personal opinion?
>
> Siegfried, also from Germany
>
> Am 10.03.2013 08:46, schrieb Bernd Niemann:
> > It was the meaning, that only "the lower classes" speak a dialect,
> > all educated ,"better" people have to use "Hochdeutsch"
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 14:52:19 +0100
> From: Bernd Niemann <bernd....@bnv-bamberg.de>
> Subject: Re: GEN-DE High German and Low German
> To: gen...@rootsweb.com
> Message-ID: <aq3hgk...@mid.individual.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hello!
>
> Am 10.03.2013 14:23, schrieb Siegfried Huismann:
>
> [quoting repaired]
>
> > Am 10.03.2013 08:46, schrieb Bernd Niemann:
> >> It was the meaning, that only "the lower classes" speak a dialect,
> >> all educated ,"better" people have to use "Hochdeutsch"
>
> > Where did you find that nonsens, or is that your personal opinion?
>
> That's my personal experience.
>
> You might want to have a look at this:
>
> http://suite101.de/article/dialekt--abgrenzung-und-definition-a94804#axzz2N8zDnwNe
>
> excerpt:
>
> |Wer benutzt den Dialekt, wer die Hochsprache? Der Dialekt wird
> |gemeinhin eher der Unterschicht zugesprochen, den Arbeitern, Bauern
> |und Handwerkern. Die Hochsprache hingegen wird von der Mittel- und
> |Oberschicht genutzt, von Unternehmern und Akademikern.
>
> Also nonsens?
>
> HAND
> Bernd
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:00:13 +0100
> From: Olaf Barheine <use...@barheine.de>
> Subject: Re: GEN-DE High German and Low German
> To: gen...@rootsweb.com
> Message-ID: <khi760$6d1$1...@solani.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hello Lila,
>
> in fact "Hochdeutsch" is a dialect, too. One reason, why it became
> standard german was, that Martin Luther spoke it and used it for his
> bible translation. So, today we have to thank god, that Luther was not a
> bavarian. ;-)
>
> On Wikipedia you can find an article about standard german:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_German
>
> Best regards, Olaf
>
>
> Am 10.03.2013 00:38, schrieb Lila Garner:
> > When I was a child, my dad proudly stated that in their home (Lippe-Detmold) the family spoke High German, but his father spoke low German to his farm workers. My understanding was that High German was standard, and Low German was a dialect. I somewhere got the idea that Low German was a local dialect that might differ quite a lot from region to region, while High German remained standard all over the German-speaking world.
> > Recently a speaker at a German genealogy program stated his take on the difference between High German and Low German: High and low are a matter of altitude. Low German is spoken in the low country near the seacoast, and high German is spoken in the mountains. He didn't make it clear what language was spoken in the area between the mountains and the coastal region.
> > Can someone who knows how this works please explain the difference between High and Low German?
> > Lila Niemann Garner
> > Nebraska, USA
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:21:44 +0100
> From: "Bernd J. Kaup" <bjk...@internet-counsel.de>
> Subject: Re: GEN-DE High German and Low German
> To: gen...@rootsweb.com
> Message-ID: <c8617$513ca4fb$5c4f237f$17...@news2.eu.disputo.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Am 10.03.2013 14:23, schrieb Siegfried Huismann:
> > Where did you find that nonsens, or is that your personal opinion?
> >
> > Siegfried, also from Germany
> >
> > Am 10.03.2013 08:46, schrieb Bernd Niemann:
> >> It was the meaning, that only "the lower classes" speak a dialect,
> >> all educated ,"better" people have to use "Hochdeutsch"
>
>
> Siegfried, what is your source for calling the truth nonsense?
>
> Hochdeutsch is the language of the Holy Bible as translated by Martin
> Luther (the inventor of the first uniform german) and of literature. Til
> about 40 years ago, children had to speak "hochdeutsch" from the
> Kindergarten on.
>
> Now there is a movement to restore the knowledge of "Platt" which is a
> synonym for the german dialects spoken in northern Germany (roughly in
> the triangle between Rhein, Oder and Main/Mosel) and of
> "alemannisch","schw?bisch", "fr?nkisch" and "bairisch" as spoken in
> southern Germany.
> This movement is a rather weak one, but is reflected in the official
> international state advertising of Baden-W?rttemberg:
>
> Wir k?nnen alles, nur nicht hochdeutsch.
>
> mfg
> bjk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:47:56 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Paul Berndt <pwbe...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: GEN-DE High German and Low German
> To: "gen...@rootsweb.com" <gen...@rootsweb.com>
> Message-ID:
> <1362930476.508...@web122502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hello All,
>
>
> I very seldom post yet will add to this conversation.? My Grandmother, Henrietta Hoffman married William Berndt.? Both were first generation Americans.? My Grandmother's family was upset with her marriage because the Hoffmans are "High" Germans and the Berndts are "Low" Germans.? This was explained by my Grandmother, my father and his siblings.
>
> The truth? Both were poor immigrants who worked hard to improve their lives.
>
> Paul
> Ohio, USA
>
> From: Bernd J. Kaup <bjk...@internet-counsel.de>
> >To: gen...@rootsweb.com
> >
> >Am 10.03.2013 14:23, schrieb Siegfried Huismann:
> >> Where did you find that nonsens, or is that your personal opinion?
> >>
> >> Siegfried, also from Germany
> >>
> >> Am 10.03.2013 08:46, schrieb Bernd Niemann:
> >>> It was the meaning, that only "the lower classes" speak a dialect,
> >>> all educated ,"better" people have to use "Hochdeutsch"
> >
> >
> >Siegfried, what is your source for calling the truth nonsense?
> >
> >Hochdeutsch is the language of the Holy Bible as translated by Martin
> >Luther (the inventor of the first uniform german) and of literature. Til
> >about 40 years ago, children had to speak "hochdeutsch" from the
> >Kindergarten on.
> >
> >Now there is a movement to restore the knowledge of "Platt" which is a
> >synonym for the german dialects spoken in northern Germany (roughly in
> >the triangle between Rhein, Oder and Main/Mosel) and of
> >"alemannisch","schw?bisch", "fr?nkisch" and "bairisch" as spoken in
> >southern Germany.
> >This movement is a rather weak one, but is reflected in the official
> >international state advertising of Baden-W?rttemberg:
> >
> >Wir k?nnen alles, nur nicht hochdeutsch.
> >
> >mfg
> >bjk
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 22:43:54 +0100
> From: Siegfried Huismann <newsgroup...@spamgourmet.com>
> Subject: Re: GEN-DE High German and Low German
> To: gen...@rootsweb.com
> Message-ID: <khiuqq$81v$1...@news.albasani.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Am 10.03.2013 14:52, schrieb Bernd Niemann:
>
> > excerpt:
> >
> > |Wer benutzt den Dialekt, wer die Hochsprache? Der Dialekt wird
> > |gemeinhin eher der Unterschicht zugesprochen, den Arbeitern, Bauern
> > |und Handwerkern. Die Hochsprache hingegen wird von der Mittel- und
> > |Oberschicht genutzt, von Unternehmern und Akademikern.
>
> That page has nothing to do with "low german" or "high german", it
> provides information about dialects in general.
> Low german is not a dialect!
> Please research your information before posting.
>
> Siegfried
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 22:50:55 +0100
> From: Siegfried Huismann <newsgroup...@spamgourmet.com>
> Subject: Re: GEN-DE High German and Low German
> To: gen...@rootsweb.com
> Message-ID: <khiv7u$8tm$1...@news.albasani.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Am 10.03.2013 16:21, schrieb Bernd J. Kaup:
> > Now there is a movement to restore the knowledge of "Platt" which is a
> > synonym for the german dialects spoken in northern Germany (roughly in
> > the triangle between Rhein, Oder and Main/Mosel) and of
> > "alemannisch","schw?bisch", "fr?nkisch" and "bairisch" as spoken in
> > southern Germany.
>
> First, low german doesn't need to be restored, it's still alive in a lot
> of areas in Germany, second please take a look at the map you have used
> because your "triangle" is completely out of bounds ...
>
> Thanks, Siegfried
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 23:40:38 +0100
> From: "Bernd J. Kaup" <bjk...@internet-counsel.de>
> Subject: Re: GEN-DE High German and Low German
> To: gen...@rootsweb.com
> Message-ID: <5e4ef$513d0be6$5c4f237f$25...@news2.eu.disputo.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Am 10.03.2013 22:50, schrieb Siegfried Huismann:
> > Am 10.03.2013 16:21, schrieb Bernd J. Kaup:
> >> Now there is a movement to restore the knowledge of "Platt" which is a
> >> synonym for the german dialects spoken in northern Germany (roughly in
> >> the triangle between Rhein, Oder and Main/Mosel) and of
> >> "alemannisch","schw?bisch", "fr?nkisch" and "bairisch" as spoken in
> >> southern Germany.
> >
> > First, low german doesn't need to be restored, it's still alive in a lot
> > of areas in Germany, second please take a look at the map you have used
> > because your "triangle" is completely out of bounds ...
> >
> > Thanks, Siegfried
>
> if you provide a working email you'll get a map.
> mfg
> bjk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:57:58 -0700 (PDT)
> From: christine....@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: GEN-DE PLACHT or WENZEL ---SCHONBACH
> To: gen...@rootsweb.com
> Message-ID: <13e97bfd-66a7-44c6...@googlegroups.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Am Samstag, 15. Februar 1997 09:00:00 UTC+1 schrieb SLCCR:
> > Looking for information on Placht or Wenzel families from Schonbach, Wein.
> > Have information dating back to a Elias Plachte born in 1690. Died in
> > 1723. Was a forest ranger in the Taumatrikel forest as well as a violin
> > maker. Family history of violin making through the 1800's. Josef Placht
> > married a Wenzel, they came to the US in mid 1800's. Any information would
> > be greatly appreciated!
>
> Hi,
>
> I have many information on the Placht family as they are also among my ancestors. I have a big data collection about all the families in the Schoenbach area.
>
> I would be happy to hear from you. Please write directly to my email.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 00:20:26 +0100
> From: "Bernd J. Kaup" <bjk...@internet-counsel.de>
> Subject: Re: GEN-DE High German and Low German
> To: gen...@rootsweb.com
> Message-ID: <93e73$513d153b$5c4f237f$15...@news2.eu.disputo.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Am 10.03.2013 16:00, schrieb Olaf Barheine:
> > Hello Lila,
> >
> > in fact "Hochdeutsch" is a dialect, too. One reason, why it became
> > standard german was, that Martin Luther spoke it and used it for his
> > bible translation. So, today we have to thank god, that Luther was not a
> > bavarian. ;-)
>
> That is not even slightly resembling to anything close to truth.
>
> >
> > On Wikipedia you can find an article about standard german:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_German
>
> Your reference to the british Wiki is grossly misleading. There are
> essential differences between the british and the german Wiki in the
> given case and which is most important the content you refer to is not
> only not contained in the german version but the german version says
> just the opposite.
> The gist is that there is nothing like a Standard German. "Hochdeutsch"
> is the terminus technicus for a German used, when the speaker or writer
> wants or needs to be understood in all german countries and by all
> people from other countries of the world, who have got a dictionary of
> their mothertongue and German. Platt or other dialects including
> austrian and swiss ones is used in your local pub to order your beer.
>
> mfg
> bjk
>
>
>
>
> End of GEN-DE Digest, Vol 8, Issue 24
> *************************************