GEN-DE High German and Low German

[Lila Garner]

When I was a child, my dad proudly stated that in their home (Lippe-Detmold) the family spoke High German, but his father spoke low German to his farm workers. My understanding was that High German was standard, and Low German was a dialect. I somewhere got the idea that Low German was a local dialect that might differ quite a lot from region to region, while High German remained standard all over the German-speaking world.
Recently a speaker at a German genealogy program stated his take on the difference between High German and Low German: High and low are a matter of altitude. Low German is spoken in the low country near the seacoast, and high German is spoken in the mountains. He didn't make it clear what language was spoken in the area between the mountains and the coastal region.
Can someone who knows how this works please explain the difference between High and Low German?
Lila Niemann Garner
Nebraska, USA

[Frederick Falkenberg]

High German is a clear and precise way of speaking comparable in quality to Oxford English.

Frederick Falkenberg

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[Sybille Tomlin]

Ooh haha, that speaker provided me with a good laugh! I grew up in Germany and I can assure you that your initial understanding was perfectly correct. Hochdeutsch is what they speak on TV, every area has its own dialects and sub dialects. Somewhat comparable to the queen's English and british dialects. In the north west of Germany they speak 'Plattdeutsch', a dialect requiring translation for anybody else. In the south, in Bavaria, a translator is equally required if you listen to locals talking amongst themselves. In between there are many other dialects that will often shine through, even when people are speaking high German.

[Siegfried Huismann]

Please take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German
It explains in more detail what you are looking for. We have a lot of
different dialects in Germany, low german is only one of them.

Siegfried

[Bernd Niemann]

Hello!

Am 10.03.2013 00:38, schrieb Lila Garner:

> When I was a child, my dad proudly stated that in
> their home (Lippe-Detmold) the family spoke High German,
> but his father spoke low German to his farm workers.

please note:

Hochdeutsch = standard, without any local differences
and as it is written

but linguists know

Niederdeutsch: a group of dialects spoken in northern Germany,
Mitteldeutsch: a group pf dialects spoken in the middle
Oberdeutsch: a group of dialects spoken in southern Germany,

An example is our Name "Niemann".
It is the "Niederdeutsch" version of "Neumann" as it is
in "Oberdeutsch" and "Hochdeutsch", both meaning "Newman"

find a map here:
http://www.uni-potsdam.de/u/germanistik/ls_dia/umfrage/ndeutsch.htm

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Niederdeutsche_Dialekte_seit_1945_BRD.PNG

and a animated gif here
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Deutsche_Mundarten.gif

I think, your grandfather spoke "Hochdeutsch" but used the
local dialect ( "Lippisch" ) with his workers.
It was the meaning, that only "the lower classes" speak a dialect,
all educated ,"better" people have to use "Hochdeutsch"

HTH
Bernd from Germany

[Siegfried Huismann]

Where did you find that nonsens, or is that your personal opinion?

Siegfried, also from Germany

[Bernd Niemann]

Hello!

Am 10.03.2013 14:23, schrieb Siegfried Huismann:

[quoting repaired]

> Am 10.03.2013 08:46, schrieb Bernd Niemann:
>> It was the meaning, that only "the lower classes" speak a dialect,
>> all educated ,"better" people have to use "Hochdeutsch"

> Where did you find that nonsens, or is that your personal opinion?

That's my personal experience.

You might want to have a look at this:

http://suite101.de/article/dialekt--abgrenzung-und-definition-a94804#axzz2N8zDnwNe

excerpt:

|Wer benutzt den Dialekt, wer die Hochsprache? Der Dialekt wird
|gemeinhin eher der Unterschicht zugesprochen, den Arbeitern, Bauern
|und Handwerkern. Die Hochsprache hingegen wird von der Mittel- und
|Oberschicht genutzt, von Unternehmern und Akademikern.

Also nonsens?

HAND
Bernd

[Olaf Barheine]

Hello Lila,

in fact "Hochdeutsch" is a dialect, too. One reason, why it became
standard german was, that Martin Luther spoke it and used it for his
bible translation. So, today we have to thank god, that Luther was not a
bavarian. ;-)

On Wikipedia you can find an article about standard german:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_German

Best regards, Olaf

Am 10.03.2013 00:38, schrieb Lila Garner:

[Bernd J. Kaup]

Am 10.03.2013 14:23, schrieb Siegfried Huismann:

Siegfried, what is your source for calling the truth nonsense?

Hochdeutsch is the language of the Holy Bible as translated by Martin
Luther (the inventor of the first uniform german) and of literature. Til
about 40 years ago, children had to speak "hochdeutsch" from the
Kindergarten on.

Now there is a movement to restore the knowledge of "Platt" which is a
synonym for the german dialects spoken in northern Germany (roughly in
the triangle between Rhein, Oder and Main/Mosel) and of
"alemannisch","schwäbisch", "fränkisch" and "bairisch" as spoken in
southern Germany.
This movement is a rather weak one, but is reflected in the official
international state advertising of Baden-Württemberg:

Wir können alles, nur nicht hochdeutsch.

mfg
bjk

[Paul Berndt]

Hello All,


I very seldom post yet will add to this conversation.  My Grandmother, Henrietta Hoffman married William Berndt.  Both were first generation Americans.  My Grandmother's family was upset with her marriage because the Hoffmans are "High" Germans and the Berndts are "Low" Germans.  This was explained by my Grandmother, my father and his siblings.

The truth? Both were poor immigrants who worked hard to improve their lives.

Paul
Ohio, USA

[Siegfried Huismann]

Am 10.03.2013 14:52, schrieb Bernd Niemann:

> excerpt:
>
> |Wer benutzt den Dialekt, wer die Hochsprache? Der Dialekt wird
> |gemeinhin eher der Unterschicht zugesprochen, den Arbeitern, Bauern
> |und Handwerkern. Die Hochsprache hingegen wird von der Mittel- und
> |Oberschicht genutzt, von Unternehmern und Akademikern.

That page has nothing to do with "low german" or "high german", it
provides information about dialects in general.
Low german is not a dialect!
Please research your information before posting.

Siegfried

[Siegfried Huismann]

Am 10.03.2013 16:21, schrieb Bernd J. Kaup:
> Now there is a movement to restore the knowledge of "Platt" which is a
> synonym for the german dialects spoken in northern Germany (roughly in
> the triangle between Rhein, Oder and Main/Mosel) and of
> "alemannisch","schwäbisch", "fränkisch" and "bairisch" as spoken in
> southern Germany.

First, low german doesn't need to be restored, it's still alive in a lot
of areas in Germany, second please take a look at the map you have used
because your "triangle" is completely out of bounds ...

Thanks, Siegfried

[Bernd J. Kaup]

if you provide a working email you'll get a map.
mfg
bjk

[Bernd J. Kaup]

Am 10.03.2013 16:00, schrieb Olaf Barheine:
> Hello Lila,
>
> in fact "Hochdeutsch" is a dialect, too. One reason, why it became
> standard german was, that Martin Luther spoke it and used it for his
> bible translation. So, today we have to thank god, that Luther was not a
> bavarian. ;-)

That is not even slightly resembling to anything close to truth.

>
> On Wikipedia you can find an article about standard german:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_German

Your reference to the british Wiki is grossly misleading. There are
essential differences between the british and the german Wiki in the
given case and which is most important the content you refer to is not
only not contained in the german version but the german version says
just the opposite.
The gist is that there is nothing like a Standard German. "Hochdeutsch"
is the terminus technicus for a German used, when the speaker or writer
wants or needs to be understood in all german countries and by all
people from other countries of the world, who have got a dictionary of
their mothertongue and German. Platt or other dialects including
austrian and swiss ones is used in your local pub to order your beer.

mfg
bjk

[Olaf Barheine]

Am 11.03.2013 00:20, schrieb Bernd J. Kaup:
> Am 10.03.2013 16:00, schrieb Olaf Barheine:
>> Hello Lila,
>>
>> in fact "Hochdeutsch" is a dialect, too. One reason, why it became
>> standard german was, that Martin Luther spoke it and used it for his
>> bible translation. So, today we have to thank god, that Luther was not a
>> bavarian. ;-)
>
> That is not even slightly resembling to anything close to truth.

So you deny the role of the Luther Bible for the german language? Could
you please a little bit more precisely? Thanks.

Best reagards, Olaf.

[Bernd J. Kaup]

Die jeweiligen Definitionen der Linguisten, Etymologen und Volkskundler
zu dem. was sie für Sprache, Sprachvarianten, Dialekte und
Dialektvarinanten halten könnten unterschiedlicher nicht sein.

Dass der thüringisch-hessische Dialekt, den Martin Luther sprach und
das, was man heute "Hochdeutsch" nennt, zwei Paar Schuhe sind, liegt auf
der Hand. Der Vergleich der Vielzahl von persönlichen Aussprüchen Martin
Luthers im engeren Kreise und dem von ihm in der Bibelüberstzungen
geschaffenen Deutsch führt zu dem frappanten Ergebnis, das Luther nicht
Hochdeutsch gesprochen, es aber geschrieben hat.
Was meiner von dir gesnippten zugegebenermaßen saloppen Definition
zweier Millieusprachen entspricht.

mfg
bjk

[Joan Lowrey]

Does anyone have access to any printings or
volumes of Siebmacher's Wappenbücher?
In one printing, seen at the University of
Heidelberg in the 1950s, there was a crest for
the name Iungblut (Jungblut), but there was no
text describing the person it belonged to.
I would appreciate any information on the owner
of that crest, or any other crest for the name Jungblut.

Thank you,
Joan Neumann Lowrey
California

[Bernd J. Kaup]

Am 12.08.2013 09:54, schrieb Joan Lowrey:
> Does anyone have access to any printings or volumes of Siebmacher's

> Wappenb�cher?

> In one printing, seen at the University of Heidelberg in the 1950s,
> there was a crest for the name Iungblut (Jungblut), but there was no
> text describing the person it belonged to.
> I would appreciate any information on the owner of that crest, or any
> other crest for the name Jungblut.
>
> Thank you,
> Joan Neumann Lowrey
> California

there is a Google e-book Siebmachers Wappenbuch.

As far as I know does neither The Alter Siebmacher as of 1600 til 1772,
reprint 1975 (which I have seen), nor The Neuer Siebmacher published
between 1857 and 1967 (of which I have seen a thesaurus-type of annex)
contain data, which might help for genealogical purposes, more than the
name of the family and sometimes the "Stammsitz".

mfg
bjk

[Joan Lowrey]

Bernd,

Thank you for your reply and the information.

Joan Neumann Lowrey

At 05:50 AM 8/12/2013, Bernd J. Kaup wrote:
>Am 12.08.2013 09:54, schrieb Joan Lowrey:
> > Does anyone have access to any printings or volumes of Siebmacher's

> > Wappenbücher?

> > In one printing, seen at the University of Heidelberg in the 1950s,
> > there was a crest for the name Iungblut (Jungblut), but there was no
> > text describing the person it belonged to.
> > I would appreciate any information on the owner of that crest, or any
> > other crest for the name Jungblut.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Joan Neumann Lowrey
> > California
>
>there is a Google e-book Siebmachers Wappenbuch.
>
>As far as I know does neither The Alter Siebmacher as of 1600 til 1772,
>reprint 1975 (which I have seen), nor The Neuer Siebmacher published
>between 1857 and 1967 (of which I have seen a thesaurus-type of annex)
>contain data, which might help for genealogical purposes, more than the
>name of the family and sometimes the "Stammsitz".
>
>mfg
>bjk
>