German sailing ship ELISE

[Daphne Toomey]

I am impressed with the information on ships given out. I am searching
for information on the ELISE on which John Anton Vogel sailed to New
York arriving 29 August 1851. His journal states he left Bremen on 20
July 1851 to be tossed hither and yon on the high seas.

I find no mention of the ship in Michael J. Anuta's book and I wrote the
Mystic Seaport Museum, in Mystic, Connecticut, which I heard had sailing
information, but have received no response to a letter written in March.

I would love to get a picture but any information would be greatly
appreciated.

Daphne

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[Charles Ruedebusch]

A cousin of mine has sent me a photocopy of a photo of the Bark Elise which
brought his and my mutual ancestors from Bremen to NY, arriving 29 Sept
1856. (Bark = 3-masted sailing ship). I'll ask the cousin where he found the
photo and what else he has found about the ship.

[Curtis P. Sigdestad, Ph.D.]

It was perhaps the same Bark which brought a perhaps relative of mine to New
York from Hamburg on 1 May 1852. A strange thing (perhaps a typo) was that her
name is listed as Elise STOPPEL and the Bark is named "ELIZE."
You are correct that a Bark has three masts but sails are only on the two
forward masts.
It was often used for whaling. Curt

Charles Ruedebusch wrote:

--
________________________________________________________________________
Curtis P. Sigdestad, Ph.D. c...@bcc.louisville.edu
Radiation Oncology PHONE: (502)852-4552
University of Louisville FAX: (502)852-7725
J. Graham Brown Cancer Center
Louisville, KY 40202-3281

"Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is important that you do it."
Gandhi
________________________________________________________________________

[Michael Palmer]

On Thu, 04 Dec 1997, "Daphne Toomey" <d_to...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I am impressed with the information on ships given out. I am searching
> for information on the ELISE on which John Anton Vogel sailed to New
> York arriving 29 August 1851. His journal states he left Bremen on 20
> July 1851 to be tossed hither and yon on the high seas.
>
> I find no mention of the ship in Michael J. Anuta's book and I wrote
> the Mystic Seaport Museum, in Mystic, Connecticut, which I heard had
> sailing information, but have received no response to a letter written
> in March.
>
> I would love to get a picture but any information would be greatly
> appreciated.

"Charles Ruedebusch" <rf...@earthlink.net> replied on Fri, 5 Dec 1997:

> A cousin of mine has sent me a photocopy of a photo of the Bark Elise
> which brought his and my mutual ancestors from Bremen to NY, arriving 29
> Sept 1856. (Bark = 3-masted sailing ship). I'll ask the cousin where he
> found the photo and what else he has found about the ship.

"Curtis P. Sigdestad, Ph.D." <c...@bcc.louisville.edu> added on Tue, 09 Dec
1997:

> It was perhaps the same Bark which brought a perhaps relative of mine
> to New York from Hamburg on 1 May 1852. A strange thing (perhaps a
> typo) was that her name is listed as Elise STOPPEL and the Bark is named
> "ELIZE." You are correct that a Bark has three masts but sails are only
> on the two forward masts.
>
> It was often used for whaling.

The ancestors of Daphne and Charles traveled on the same vessel;
Curtis's ancestor traveled on a different vessel. The two vessels met at
least once, in 1856 (see below).

Before I give histories of the two vessels, a technical point: to a
sailor, a ship and a bark are quite different vessels, and are
distinguished by their rigging: in the mid-19th century a ship was a
vessel with (at least) 3 masts, all of them square-rigged; a bark (or
barque) was a vessel also with 3 masts, the "front" two (the foremast and
mainmast) square rigged, the back mast (mizzenmist) rigged fore-and-aft.
For a pictorial representation of these different rigs, see the webpage
"Rigging of American Sailing Vessels" produced by the Peabody Essex
Museum, in Salem, MA, at http://www.pem.org/guides/rigs.htm. (There are
in fact differences between "American" and "German" rigging practices,
but the general principles are the same.)

I. Bremen ship/bark ELISE.

The vessel on which Daphne's and Charles's ancestors traveled was the
ELISE, built by Johann Lange, Vegesak/Grohn, and launched on 10 May 1835
for the Bremen firm of Albers & K"oncke. In 1850, she belonged half to
the firm of J. D. K"oncke Hermanns Sohn and half to Ferdinand Henschen.
177 Commerzlasten/415 tons register; 31,4 x 8,8 x 5,1 meters (length x
beam x depth of hold).

The ELISE was originally rigged as a ship, but sometime in late 1852 or
early 1853 (i.e., between the arrival Daphne's ancestor and the arrival of
Charles's ancestor), she was re-rigged as a bark.

The maritime news columns of the New York newspapers report the following
on the arrival of the voyage carrying Daphne's ancestor: Bremen ship
Elise, G"atjen, master, arrived at New York on 28 August 1851, 38 days
from Bremen, with merchandise and 175 passengers.

The New York newspapers report the following on the arrival of the voyage
carrying Charles's ancestor: Bremen bark Elise, Nordenholdt, master,
arrived at New York on 28 September 1856, 53 days from Bremen, with
merchandise and 171 passengers.

On the return leg of this last voyage, the crew of the ELISE rescued 16
survivors from the sunken French steamer LYONNAIS, as reported in the
_Weser-Zeitung_ for 4 December 1856:

Nachdem der LYONNAIS mit einem unbekannten Schiffe, welches aller
Wahrscheinlichkeit nach sogleich gesunken ist, in der Nacht vom 2.
auf den 3. November zusammengestossen hatte, blieb Jedermann noch
bis zum andern Morgen an Bord, und als darauf beschlossen war, das
Schiff zu verlassen, baute man ein Floss, auf welchem sich 40
Menschen, vermuthlich Zwischendecks-Passagiere, einschifften,
w"ahrend die "ubrigen Passagiere und Mannschaft in den am Bord
befindlichen 6 Booten, darunter nur 1 Rettungsboot, vertheilt
wurden. Von diesen Allen ist bis jetzt nur das letztere
aufgefunden und sind die noch darin befindlichen 16 Menschen,
nachdem 2 der Eingeschifften in den 6 Tagen des Umherirrens vor
K"alte gestorben waren, von der Bremer Bark ELISE, Capt.
Nordenholz, am Sonntag Nachmittag, den 9. November, aufgenommen
und somit gerettet worden. Diese hatten s"ammtlich erfrorene
Glieder und befanden sich "uberhaupt in einem schrecklichen
Zustande; diesem abzuhelfen und zu verbessern, wurde am Bord der
ELISE alles M"ogliche aufgeboten; da jedoch das Schiff bald
Mangel an Wasser gelitten haben w"urde und selbiges mit der
Hamburger Bark ELISE, Capt. Nielsen, auf 40 Grad 51 Min. N.Br.,
65 Grad 40 Min. W.L. zusammentraf, so wurden 14 jener Passagiere
an Bord dieses Schiffes gebracht, um damit nach Newyork
zur"uckzukehren, w"ahrend 2 Personen auf der Bremer Bark
verblieben, um damit nach Bremen zu kommen.

The Hamburg bark ELISE referred to above was the bark on which Curtis's
ancestor had traveled in May 1852.

In 1857, the Bremen bark ELISE was sold to O. C. Reinhardt & D.
Isaachsen, of Christiansand, Norway, who renamed her VESTA; her captain
under the Norwegian flag was T. A. Torjussen. In May 1863, she was
standed at Newfoundland, and became a total loss [Peter-Michael Pawlik,
_Von der Weser in die Welt; Die Geschichte der Segelschiffe von Weser und
Lesum und ihrer Bauwerften 1770 bis 1893_, Schriften des Deutschen
Schiffahrtsmuseums, Bd. 33 (Hamburg: Kabel, c1993), pp. 187-188.

Pawlik's work contains no picture of the ELISE, so if Charles has a
photocopy of a picture of her, I would be most interested in a
description of it. (Pawlik does contain a photograph of the newspaper
announcement of the launching of the ELISE in 1835, but the vessel
pictured is a steamship, and the picture is probably a stylized
representation of the river steamer BREMEN that carried onlookers to the
launching from Bremen to Vegesack and back to Bremen.)

II. Hamburg bark ELISE.

The New York newspapers report the following on the arrival of the voyage
carrying Curtis's ancestor: Hamburg bark Elise, Jenner, master, arrived
at New York on 30 April 1852, 41 days from Hamburg, with 134 passengers;
had 2 births and 1 death on the passage.

The bark ELISE was built in Nyborg, Denmark, in 1842. 129 Commerzlasten;
110 x 28,7 x 15,10 Hamburg feet (1 Hamburg Fuss = .286 meters) (length x
beam x depth of hold), "zwischen den Steven". On 14 January 1850, she was
purchased from Kruse, of Nyborg, by the Hamburg firm of C. R"ubcke &
Woellmer.

Master:
1850-1852 - H. H. D. N. I. Trautmann
1852-1853 - J. Jenner
1853-1855 - C. J. S. Bruhn
1855-1860 - A. Nielsen
1860-1862 - D. A. Hun"aus

Voyages:
1850 - New York (2 x)
1850/51 - New York
1851 - New York
1851/52 - New York
1852 - New York (2 x)
1852/53 - New York/Liverpool
1853 - New York
1853/54 - New York/Cardiff
1854 - New York (2 x)
1854/55 - New York
1855/56 - St. Uebes (Setubal)/Montevideo/intermediate ports/Amsterdam
1856 - Quebec/London
1856/57 - New York/La Guayra/Puerto Cabello/Altona
1857/58 - New York/London
1858 - New York
1858/59 - Rio de Janeiro/intermediat ports/Hartlepool
1859/60 - St. Thomas/Laguna d. T., Mexico
1860 - Laguna d. T./Altona
1860/61 - New York
1861 - Bristol ...

She was sold in 1862 [Walter Kresse, ed., _Seeschiffs-Verzeichnis der
Hamburger Reedereien, 1824-1888_, Mitteilungen aus dem Museum f"ur
Hamburgische Geschichte, N. F., Bd. 5. (Hamburg: Museum f"ur Hamburgische
Geschichte, 1969), vol. 1, p. 157]. I do not have any information at
present on her later history or ultimate fate.

To determine whether there exists a pictorial representation of the
Hamburg bark ELISE, contact the Museum f"ur Hamburgische Geschichte,
Holstenwall 24, D-20355 Hamburg.

Michael Palmer
--
Michael Palmer
Claremont, California
mpa...@netcom.com